16340 declined a lot in market share?

22 posts / 0 new
Last post
Colonel Light
Online
Last seen: 21 sec ago
Joined: 04/23/2011 - 08:38
Posts: 61
Location: Light Square, Adelaide
16340 declined a lot in market share?

What happened to the 16340 (RCR123A) format? It seems to have largely disappeared, compared to where it was ten years ago.

CrashOne
Offline
Last seen: 50 min 11 sec ago
Joined: 02/18/2014 - 13:29
Posts: 328
Location: The Netherlands

I think the market moved to more high drain solutions, the 16340 got left behind.

djozz
djozz's picture
Offline
Last seen: 11 hours 26 min ago
Joined: 09/07/2012 - 17:04
Posts: 16541
Location: Amsterdam

I still like the size: 16340 lights are a perfect size for EDC, and the new Vapcell 16340 made the technology up to date.

I think 16340 was popular when CR123 compatibility was thought important, and maybe that became less so.

Jack Kellar
Jack Kellar's picture
Offline
Last seen: 27 min 3 sec ago
Joined: 03/09/2014 - 14:21
Posts: 1833
Location: Throwing bolts at anomalies

Seems like in our sphere of interest, it was largely replaced by 18350.

mortuus
mortuus's picture
Offline
Last seen: 15 hours 37 min ago
Joined: 12/16/2014 - 09:33
Posts: 2430
Location: Sweden

well many complaind that 16340 has too little capacity and runtime.. i like those batteries now that vapcall has the 800mah highdrains.. to me this type of light like olight s1 baton or similar is perfect size imo..shame not samsung and or sony/lg makes 16340 batteries..

...where Frugal meets with Flashlight!

Photonica
Photonica's picture
Offline
Last seen: 13 hours 28 min ago
Joined: 09/20/2019 - 10:10
Posts: 306
Location: Midwest USA

I think djozz called it. There was a time when the CR123A was the best battery on the market. The alternatives were alkaline D Cells, NiCad and NiMH AA. A rechargeable version? Even better! Then LED lights became popular. While 1xCR123A lights were available, the volume product was the 2xCR123A/18650 light. The 18650 got all the love and R&D money. To backfill the need for a smaller size, the 18350 became popular. It’s greater capacity and better performance has sidelind the 16340.

More Photons!

tempo
Offline
Last seen: 1 hour 53 sec ago
Joined: 06/28/2014 - 08:59
Posts: 563

No big flashlight brand still develops new 16340 lights

MascaratumB
MascaratumB's picture
Offline
Last seen: 48 min 19 sec ago
Joined: 10/29/2016 - 12:12
Posts: 4466
Location: Portugal

tempo wrote:

No big flashlight brand still develops new 16340 lights


Acebeam does! TK16, excellent light.
EagTac still has their 16340 lights
Olight has their “S” Baton Lights (although people prefer their proprietary batteries for inbuilt charging)
Klarus has a recent XT1C
On The Road has the M3 Pro, 311, i3 from 2019
Fenix has 16340 lights launched recently
Jetbeam is still strong in 16340 lights

The thing is that we currently have 14500 cells with 1000mAh and the 18350s with 1100mAh.
So people will tend to prefer slimmer lights to accomodate those batteries and more capacity that the 14500/18350 cells have!

I still love the 16340s I have and I’ll keep on getting hosts to mod and to use with the Vapcell batteries Big Smile

[REVIEWS] ACEBEAM: H20 / TK16 /// AMUTORCH: S3 / S3 vs 219c / AM30 / AX1 / VG10 /// BLITZWOLF: BW-ET1 /// BRINYTE: T28 /// DQG: AA Slim Ti /// FIREFLIES: ROT66 GEN II /// HC-LIGHTS: SS AAA /// KLARUS: XT1C /// LIVARNOLUX: 314791 /// LUMINTOP: Tool AA V2.0 + Tool 25 /// NITEFOX: UT20 / ES10K / K3 /// ODEPRO: KL52 / B108 /// OLIGHT: M2R Warrior /// ON THE ROAD: M1 / i3 / M3 Pro /// ROVYVON: A2 + A5R / E300S / A8 /// SKILHUNT: M150 /// SOFIRN: SF14 + SP10A / SP32A / SP10B /// WUBEN: TO10R / E05 / T70 / E10 / TO50R / E19 /// XTAR: PB2 Charger ///

Tricks: 1 / 2 / 3 / 4 / 5 / 6 / 7 / 8 /// TIR Lenses: 1 / 2/// Others: Biscotti 3 + 1*7135 / Triple TIR w/ XP-G2 ///// My Collection ///// My Review's Blog (PT)

OL Contest 2019

GIVEAWAY: 1 / 2

Pavlo
Offline
Last seen: 5 hours 4 min ago
Joined: 12/13/2015 - 10:37
Posts: 631
Location: Canada

For compact batteries, I find that 16340 is the smallest I am willing to go other than AAA as smaller Lithium Ion you drop heavily in capacity.
What appeals to me about 16340/18350 lights is especially keeping things compact and lightweight in a headlamp. Fenix recently released the HM50R headlamp and it runs off 16340. With LED’s becoming more efficient, the need for larger batteries will decrease over time.

I recall when the Petzl Zoom was the dedicated headlamp for majority of backcountry users, using a huge and heavy 4.5V Duracell battery.
LED technology rendered that battery and style of headlamp obsolete.

Although 16340 lights are not as popular at the moment, I think there is still a future for them.

Jack Kellar
Jack Kellar's picture
Offline
Last seen: 27 min 3 sec ago
Joined: 03/09/2014 - 14:21
Posts: 1833
Location: Throwing bolts at anomalies

Pavlo wrote:
For compact batteries, I find that 16340 is the smallest I am willing to go other than AAA as smaller Lithium Ion you drop heavily in capacity.
What appeals to me about 16340/18350 lights is especially keeping things compact and lightweight in a headlamp. Fenix recently released the HM50R headlamp and it runs off 16340. With LED’s becoming more efficient, the need for larger batteries will decrease over time.

I recall when the Petzl Zoom was the dedicated headlamp for majority of backcountry users, using a huge and heavy 4.5V Duracell battery.
LED technology rendered that battery and style of headlamp obsolete.

Although 16340 lights are not as popular at the moment, I think there is still a future for them.


It’s always possible. There’s no doubt in my head that one day we’ll be using 10180 cells like we use 18650 today, so why wouldn’t 16340 make a resurgence as “the hi-cap alternative”?

Pete7874
Pete7874's picture
Offline
Last seen: 6 hours 30 min ago
Joined: 11/23/2011 - 16:47
Posts: 3033
Location: USA

Did 16340 Li-Ion cell really have a significant market share 10 years ago? I can’t imagine it was that large to begin with…

I prefer 18350, personally.

ChrisGarrett
ChrisGarrett's picture
Online
Last seen: 8 min 20 sec ago
Joined: 02/12/2014 - 22:03
Posts: 629
Location: Miami, Florida

They’re still ‘all’ over the place, if you look. Cell quality might be a bit spotty with the demise of AW, but there are other choices that are adequate.

Chris

tempo
Offline
Last seen: 1 hour 53 sec ago
Joined: 06/28/2014 - 08:59
Posts: 563

What happend to AW, are they practically gone for good?

NorthernHarrier
NorthernHarrier's picture
Offline
Last seen: 15 hours 42 min ago
Joined: 11/30/2018 - 12:05
Posts: 94
Location: Eastern USA

I don’t see the 18350 as a replacement for 16340, because: 1) there are no protected 18350’s sold separately at good prices in the US; and 2) the 16340 can be replaced by the CR123 for cold weather performance and longer runtime.

For those reasons, I wish there were more good and new 16340 lights available at moderate prices in the US.

bansuri
Offline
Last seen: 1 hour 26 min ago
Joined: 01/30/2017 - 23:43
Posts: 460
Location: Land of Lincoln

Pete7874 wrote:
Did 16340 Li-Ion cell really have a significant market share 10 years ago? I can’t imagine it was that large to begin with…

I prefer 18350, personally.

Very significant. We have an amazing array of li-ion sizes to choose from nowadays, 16340 helped pave the way to where we are now.
Jack Kellar’s statement about them making a comeback when battery capacities make big gains is something I hadn’t thought about.
Regretting getting rid of so many 16340 lights!

moderator007
moderator007's picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 hours 20 min ago
Joined: 12/23/2012 - 04:47
Posts: 3266
Location: North Carolina

I think Djozz is spot on. Way back the Surefire was The Flashlight. It used 2 cr123’s or 16340’s. I’m pretty sure that’s were the 16340 popularity came from.
Surefire made quality flashlights for all kinds of professional occupations that relied on their flashlights (law enforcement, military, firemen etc). The cr123 at that time was the reliable power source in all kinds of weather environments. I think that sparked the demand for the 16340 rechargable. Other flashlights then where built around this popular battery size.
.
I like the 16340 flashlight format and it was greatly improved by Vapcell’s higher capacity 16340’s. Although I do prefer the 18350 battery, the 16340 is still a fine and very useable battery format. About the perfect size EDC battery format for your average joe flashohalic in my opinion. If my life depended on it, I would pick a 18650 light for the longer run time. In a survival situation every mah could count.

ChrisGarrett
ChrisGarrett's picture
Online
Last seen: 8 min 20 sec ago
Joined: 02/12/2014 - 22:03
Posts: 629
Location: Miami, Florida
tempo wrote:

What happend to AW, are they practically gone for good?

Pretty much finished.

“He’s dead, Jim…”

Chris

Dave The Dude
Offline
Last seen: 1 week 3 days ago
Joined: 02/05/2020 - 16:55
Posts: 3
Location: Columbus, Ohio

I've been a fan of the 16340 format for at least ten years. Remember the Fenix P1? (My first 16340 light.) I still have mine, modded with a Nichia 219b emitter, outputting about 200 lumens. It's still a little gem of a light. 

In reply to the question asking "does anyone still make these," I would encourage anyone interested to surf over to the Prometheus  website (darksucks.com), and check out the work Jason is doing with the new FOURSEVENS brand lights in 16340 format. These are programmable, and on the max setting easily output 900 lumens or thereabouts of neutral white light (for about 30 minutes or so, using a high-drain lithium-ion cell; longer runtimes available at lower output settings). 

As pocket EDC lights go (especially if your work requires suit and tie), its hard to beat the combination of small size and really good, multi-level output that these kinds of lights offer. And insofar as air travel is concerned, given the ever-tightening rules relating to carry-on bag size, the 16340 format covers most conditions you're likely to encounter, without sacrificing performance.

I'm still a fan. I'm also of the opinion that this format will not go away, and will be with us for quite a while longer.

Dave The Dude

wle
wle's picture
Offline
Last seen: 12 hours 31 min ago
Joined: 01/07/2015 - 13:49
Posts: 1595
Location: atlanta ga

another problem with them is, chargers do not let the charge current go LOW enough.
without temperature sensing, charging at even 500ma will overheat and damage them.
the smaller the actual capacity (ie cheap overrated cells), the faster this happens.
i have 16340 cells that now have no more than 50mah left
plus when they charge they end up over 4.20V for some reason.
probably they are so bad they trick the charger into doing the wrong thing.

wle

"You never have the wind with you - it's either against you, or you're having a good day."
    Daniel Behrman, "The Man Who Loved Bicycles".
It never gets easy, you just go faster.   
-Greg Lemond.
       ,ø¤º°`°º¤ø¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø¸

ChrisGarrett
ChrisGarrett's picture
Online
Last seen: 8 min 20 sec ago
Joined: 02/12/2014 - 22:03
Posts: 629
Location: Miami, Florida

wle wrote:
another problem with them is, chargers do not let the charge current go LOW enough.
without temperature sensing, charging at even 500ma will overheat and damage them.
the smaller the actual capacity (ie cheap overrated cells), the faster this happens.
i have 16340 cells that now have no more than 50mah left
plus when they charge they end up over 4.20V for some reason.
probably they are so bad they trick the charger into doing the wrong thing.

wle

That’s your problem right there, charging a 500mAh cell at 1C.

I charge all my 16340s at either 250mA, or 300mA.

They are, no doubt, the weak link in the li-ion chain.

Chris

wle
wle's picture
Offline
Last seen: 12 hours 31 min ago
Joined: 01/07/2015 - 13:49
Posts: 1595
Location: atlanta ga

ChrisGarrett wrote:
wle wrote:
another problem with them is, chargers do not let the charge current go LOW enough.
without temperature sensing, charging at even 500ma will overheat and damage them.
the smaller the actual capacity (ie cheap overrated cells), the faster this happens.
i have 16340 cells that now have no more than 50mah left
plus when they charge they end up over 4.20V for some reason.
probably they are so bad they trick the charger into doing the wrong thing.

wle

That’s your problem right there, charging a 500mAh cell at 1C.

I charge all my 16340s at either 250mA, or 300mA.

They are, no doubt, the weak link in the li-ion chain.

Chris

—what do people do with the 10180 or whatever that eensy weensy one is..,..
special charger?

wle

"You never have the wind with you - it's either against you, or you're having a good day."
    Daniel Behrman, "The Man Who Loved Bicycles".
It never gets easy, you just go faster.   
-Greg Lemond.
       ,ø¤º°`°º¤ø¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø¸

ChrisGarrett
ChrisGarrett's picture
Online
Last seen: 8 min 20 sec ago
Joined: 02/12/2014 - 22:03
Posts: 629
Location: Miami, Florida

wle wrote:
ChrisGarrett wrote:
wle wrote:
another problem with them is, chargers do not let the charge current go LOW enough.
without temperature sensing, charging at even 500ma will overheat and damage them.
the smaller the actual capacity (ie cheap overrated cells), the faster this happens.
i have 16340 cells that now have no more than 50mah left
plus when they charge they end up over 4.20V for some reason.
probably they are so bad they trick the charger into doing the wrong thing.

wle

That’s your problem right there, charging a 500mAh cell at 1C.

I charge all my 16340s at either 250mA, or 300mA.

They are, no doubt, the weak link in the li-ion chain.

Chris

—what do people do with the 10180 or whatever that eensy weensy one is..,..
special charger?

wle

Usually, 10180 lights have internal charging and might go as low as 50mA.

Chris