16340 declined a lot in market share?

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Colonel Light
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16340 declined a lot in market share?

What happened to the 16340 (RCR123A) format? It seems to have largely disappeared, compared to where it was ten years ago.

CrashOne
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I think the market moved to more high drain solutions, the 16340 got left behind.

djozz
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I still like the size: 16340 lights are a perfect size for EDC, and the new Vapcell 16340 made the technology up to date.

I think 16340 was popular when CR123 compatibility was thought important, and maybe that became less so.

Jack Kellar
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Seems like in our sphere of interest, it was largely replaced by 18350.

mortuus
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well many complaind that 16340 has too little capacity and runtime.. i like those batteries now that vapcall has the 800mah highdrains.. to me this type of light like olight s1 baton or similar is perfect size imo..shame not samsung and or sony/lg makes 16340 batteries..

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I think djozz called it. There was a time when the CR123A was the best battery on the market. The alternatives were alkaline D Cells, NiCad and NiMH AA. A rechargeable version? Even better! Then LED lights became popular. While 1xCR123A lights were available, the volume product was the 2xCR123A/18650 light. The 18650 got all the love and R&D money. To backfill the need for a smaller size, the 18350 became popular. It’s greater capacity and better performance has sidelind the 16340.

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tempo
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No big flashlight brand still develops new 16340 lights

MascaratumB
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tempo wrote:

No big flashlight brand still develops new 16340 lights


Acebeam does! TK16, excellent light.
EagTac still has their 16340 lights
Olight has their “S” Baton Lights (although people prefer their proprietary batteries for inbuilt charging)
Klarus has a recent XT1C
On The Road has the M3 Pro, 311, i3 from 2019
Fenix has 16340 lights launched recently
Jetbeam is still strong in 16340 lights

The thing is that we currently have 14500 cells with 1000mAh and the 18350s with 1100mAh.
So people will tend to prefer slimmer lights to accomodate those batteries and more capacity that the 14500/18350 cells have!

I still love the 16340s I have and I’ll keep on getting hosts to mod and to use with the Vapcell batteries Big Smile

[REVIEWS] ACEBEAM: H20 / TK16 /// AMUTORCH: S3 / S3 vs 219c / AM30 / AX1 / VG10 /// BLITZWOLF: BW-ET1 /// BRINYTE: T28 /// DQG: AA Slim Ti /// FIREFLIES: ROT66 GEN II /// HC-LIGHTS: SS AAA /// KLARUS: XT1C /// LIVARNOLUX: 314791 /// LUMINTOP: Tool AA V2.0 + Tool 25 /// NITEFOX: UT20 / ES10K / K3 /// ODEPRO: KL52 / B108 /// OLIGHT: M2R Warrior /// ON THE ROAD: M1 / i3 / M3 Pro /// ROVYVON: A2 + A5R / E300S / A8 /// SKILHUNT: M150 /// SOFIRN: SF14 + SP10A / SP32A / SP10B /// WUBEN: TO10R / E05 / T70 / E10 / TO50R / E19 /// XTAR: PB2 Charger ///

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Pavlo
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For compact batteries, I find that 16340 is the smallest I am willing to go other than AAA as smaller Lithium Ion you drop heavily in capacity.
What appeals to me about 16340/18350 lights is especially keeping things compact and lightweight in a headlamp. Fenix recently released the HM50R headlamp and it runs off 16340. With LED’s becoming more efficient, the need for larger batteries will decrease over time.

I recall when the Petzl Zoom was the dedicated headlamp for majority of backcountry users, using a huge and heavy 4.5V Duracell battery.
LED technology rendered that battery and style of headlamp obsolete.

Although 16340 lights are not as popular at the moment, I think there is still a future for them.

Jack Kellar
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Pavlo wrote:
For compact batteries, I find that 16340 is the smallest I am willing to go other than AAA as smaller Lithium Ion you drop heavily in capacity.
What appeals to me about 16340/18350 lights is especially keeping things compact and lightweight in a headlamp. Fenix recently released the HM50R headlamp and it runs off 16340. With LED’s becoming more efficient, the need for larger batteries will decrease over time.

I recall when the Petzl Zoom was the dedicated headlamp for majority of backcountry users, using a huge and heavy 4.5V Duracell battery.
LED technology rendered that battery and style of headlamp obsolete.

Although 16340 lights are not as popular at the moment, I think there is still a future for them.


It’s always possible. There’s no doubt in my head that one day we’ll be using 10180 cells like we use 18650 today, so why wouldn’t 16340 make a resurgence as “the hi-cap alternative”?

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Did 16340 Li-Ion cell really have a significant market share 10 years ago? I can’t imagine it was that large to begin with…

I prefer 18350, personally.

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They’re still ‘all’ over the place, if you look. Cell quality might be a bit spotty with the demise of AW, but there are other choices that are adequate.

Chris

tempo
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What happend to AW, are they practically gone for good?

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I don’t see the 18350 as a replacement for 16340, because: 1) there are no protected 18350’s sold separately at good prices in the US; and 2) the 16340 can be replaced by the CR123 for cold weather performance and longer runtime.

For those reasons, I wish there were more good and new 16340 lights available at moderate prices in the US.

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Pete7874 wrote:
Did 16340 Li-Ion cell really have a significant market share 10 years ago? I can’t imagine it was that large to begin with…

I prefer 18350, personally.

Very significant. We have an amazing array of li-ion sizes to choose from nowadays, 16340 helped pave the way to where we are now.
Jack Kellar’s statement about them making a comeback when battery capacities make big gains is something I hadn’t thought about.
Regretting getting rid of so many 16340 lights!

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I think Djozz is spot on. Way back the Surefire was The Flashlight. It used 2 cr123’s or 16340’s. I’m pretty sure that’s were the 16340 popularity came from.
Surefire made quality flashlights for all kinds of professional occupations that relied on their flashlights (law enforcement, military, firemen etc). The cr123 at that time was the reliable power source in all kinds of weather environments. I think that sparked the demand for the 16340 rechargable. Other flashlights then where built around this popular battery size.
.
I like the 16340 flashlight format and it was greatly improved by Vapcell’s higher capacity 16340’s. Although I do prefer the 18350 battery, the 16340 is still a fine and very useable battery format. About the perfect size EDC battery format for your average joe flashohalic in my opinion. If my life depended on it, I would pick a 18650 light for the longer run time. In a survival situation every mah could count.

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tempo wrote:

What happend to AW, are they practically gone for good?

Pretty much finished.

“He’s dead, Jim…”

Chris

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I've been a fan of the 16340 format for at least ten years. Remember the Fenix P1? (My first 16340 light.) I still have mine, modded with a Nichia 219b emitter, outputting about 200 lumens. It's still a little gem of a light. 

In reply to the question asking "does anyone still make these," I would encourage anyone interested to surf over to the Prometheus  website (darksucks.com), and check out the work Jason is doing with the new FOURSEVENS brand lights in 16340 format. These are programmable, and on the max setting easily output 900 lumens or thereabouts of neutral white light (for about 30 minutes or so, using a high-drain lithium-ion cell; longer runtimes available at lower output settings). 

As pocket EDC lights go (especially if your work requires suit and tie), its hard to beat the combination of small size and really good, multi-level output that these kinds of lights offer. And insofar as air travel is concerned, given the ever-tightening rules relating to carry-on bag size, the 16340 format covers most conditions you're likely to encounter, without sacrificing performance.

I'm still a fan. I'm also of the opinion that this format will not go away, and will be with us for quite a while longer.

Dave The Dude

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another problem with them is, chargers do not let the charge current go LOW enough.
without temperature sensing, charging at even 500ma will overheat and damage them.
the smaller the actual capacity (ie cheap overrated cells), the faster this happens.
i have 16340 cells that now have no more than 50mah left
plus when they charge they end up over 4.20V for some reason.
probably they are so bad they trick the charger into doing the wrong thing.

wle

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wle wrote:
another problem with them is, chargers do not let the charge current go LOW enough.
without temperature sensing, charging at even 500ma will overheat and damage them.
the smaller the actual capacity (ie cheap overrated cells), the faster this happens.
i have 16340 cells that now have no more than 50mah left
plus when they charge they end up over 4.20V for some reason.
probably they are so bad they trick the charger into doing the wrong thing.

wle

That’s your problem right there, charging a 500mAh cell at 1C.

I charge all my 16340s at either 250mA, or 300mA.

They are, no doubt, the weak link in the li-ion chain.

Chris

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ChrisGarrett wrote:
wle wrote:
another problem with them is, chargers do not let the charge current go LOW enough.
without temperature sensing, charging at even 500ma will overheat and damage them.
the smaller the actual capacity (ie cheap overrated cells), the faster this happens.
i have 16340 cells that now have no more than 50mah left
plus when they charge they end up over 4.20V for some reason.
probably they are so bad they trick the charger into doing the wrong thing.

wle

That’s your problem right there, charging a 500mAh cell at 1C.

I charge all my 16340s at either 250mA, or 300mA.

They are, no doubt, the weak link in the li-ion chain.

Chris

—what do people do with the 10180 or whatever that eensy weensy one is..,..
special charger?

wle

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It never gets easy, you just go faster.   
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ChrisGarrett
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wle wrote:
ChrisGarrett wrote:
wle wrote:
another problem with them is, chargers do not let the charge current go LOW enough.
without temperature sensing, charging at even 500ma will overheat and damage them.
the smaller the actual capacity (ie cheap overrated cells), the faster this happens.
i have 16340 cells that now have no more than 50mah left
plus when they charge they end up over 4.20V for some reason.
probably they are so bad they trick the charger into doing the wrong thing.

wle

That’s your problem right there, charging a 500mAh cell at 1C.

I charge all my 16340s at either 250mA, or 300mA.

They are, no doubt, the weak link in the li-ion chain.

Chris

—what do people do with the 10180 or whatever that eensy weensy one is..,..
special charger?

wle

Usually, 10180 lights have internal charging and might go as low as 50mA.

Chris

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So sorry to hear that AW is gone. Their cells are (were) so great! I have some AW cells from eight years ago that are still serving me well.

Today, then, who is making the best 16340 and 14500?

I like Sony/Samsung for 18650. My best 18350, 14500, and 16340 cells are my AWs. DANG. Wish they were still in business.

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Vapcell 16340 800 mAh (white) are currently the best option in this segment!

[REVIEWS] ACEBEAM: H20 / TK16 /// AMUTORCH: S3 / S3 vs 219c / AM30 / AX1 / VG10 /// BLITZWOLF: BW-ET1 /// BRINYTE: T28 /// DQG: AA Slim Ti /// FIREFLIES: ROT66 GEN II /// HC-LIGHTS: SS AAA /// KLARUS: XT1C /// LIVARNOLUX: 314791 /// LUMINTOP: Tool AA V2.0 + Tool 25 /// NITEFOX: UT20 / ES10K / K3 /// ODEPRO: KL52 / B108 /// OLIGHT: M2R Warrior /// ON THE ROAD: M1 / i3 / M3 Pro /// ROVYVON: A2 + A5R / E300S / A8 /// SKILHUNT: M150 /// SOFIRN: SF14 + SP10A / SP32A / SP10B /// WUBEN: TO10R / E05 / T70 / E10 / TO50R / E19 /// XTAR: PB2 Charger ///

Tricks: 1 / 2 / 3 / 4 / 5 / 6 / 7 / 8 /// TIR Lenses: 1 / 2/// Others: Biscotti 3 + 1*7135 / Triple TIR w/ XP-G2 ///// My Collection ///// My Review's Blog (PT)

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MascaratumB wrote:
Vapcell 16340 800 mAh (white) are currently the best option in this segment!

But be careful, Vapcell has a 3A version now too (called T8), while the high current 7A version is sold out on their own aliexpress store. The 7A version can still be found on other shops (also other aliespress shops).
MascaratumB
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djozz wrote:
MascaratumB wrote:
Vapcell 16340 800 mAh (white) are currently the best option in this segment!
But be careful, Vapcell has a 3A version now too (called T8), while the high current 7A version is sold out on their own aliexpress store. The 7A version can still be found on other shops (also other aliespress shops).

Didn’t know they had those new cells!
Thanks for letting us know!
I was also focusing my suggestion based on the “high-drain” and not the highest capacity!

Still, for the high drain range, their INR16340 800mAh 7A white wrapping are probably the best, right?

[REVIEWS] ACEBEAM: H20 / TK16 /// AMUTORCH: S3 / S3 vs 219c / AM30 / AX1 / VG10 /// BLITZWOLF: BW-ET1 /// BRINYTE: T28 /// DQG: AA Slim Ti /// FIREFLIES: ROT66 GEN II /// HC-LIGHTS: SS AAA /// KLARUS: XT1C /// LIVARNOLUX: 314791 /// LUMINTOP: Tool AA V2.0 + Tool 25 /// NITEFOX: UT20 / ES10K / K3 /// ODEPRO: KL52 / B108 /// OLIGHT: M2R Warrior /// ON THE ROAD: M1 / i3 / M3 Pro /// ROVYVON: A2 + A5R / E300S / A8 /// SKILHUNT: M150 /// SOFIRN: SF14 + SP10A / SP32A / SP10B /// WUBEN: TO10R / E05 / T70 / E10 / TO50R / E19 /// XTAR: PB2 Charger ///

Tricks: 1 / 2 / 3 / 4 / 5 / 6 / 7 / 8 /// TIR Lenses: 1 / 2/// Others: Biscotti 3 + 1*7135 / Triple TIR w/ XP-G2 ///// My Collection ///// My Review's Blog (PT)

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djozz
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MascaratumB wrote:
djozz wrote:
MascaratumB wrote:
Vapcell 16340 800 mAh (white) are currently the best option in this segment!
But be careful, Vapcell has a 3A version now too (called T8), while the high current 7A version is sold out on their own aliexpress store. The 7A version can still be found on other shops (also other aliespress shops).

Didn’t know they had those new cells!
Thanks for letting us know!
I was also focusing my suggestion based on the “high-drain” and not the highest capacity!

Still, for the high drain range, their INR16340 800mAh 7A white wrapping are probably the best, right?


I do not have all the latest 16340 cells to compare (are there many of them?), but it is at least the best I have.
By chance, I did a quick runtime test with one of mine this week, using a larger light with an adapter to fit this small cell. I used the large flashlight to limit temperature as a factor, what you see I think is solely the decline of the battery without much temperature effects added. The output is in honest lumens calibrated as well as possible, not inflated ones. The current in the beginning when the battery was full was 5A.
Delivering over 1000lumen/3.5A for most of the draining of the cell sounds very good to me for such a small battery.

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Thanks for the heads-up on the new 3A cells and the nice test.

These are definitely the best two 16340 cells out there. Although the AW cells will always be old stock if you can find them.

So AWs need to have the 15C label and Vapcell the 7A remark.

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djozz wrote:

I do not have all the latest 16340 cells to compare (are there many of them?), but it is at least the best I have.
By chance, I did a quick runtime test with one of mine this week, using a larger light with an adapter to fit this small cell. I used the large flashlight to limit temperature as a factor, what you see I think is solely the decline of the battery without much temperature effects added. The output is in honest lumens calibrated as well as possible, not inflated ones. The current in the beginning when the battery was full was 5A.
Delivering over 1000lumen/3.5A for most of the draining of the cell sounds very good to me for such a small battery.

!{width:40%}https://i.imgur.com/ocCQwnO.jpg!


Thanks for the test and information djozz!
This surely can handle some drain and, in case the new 16340 850 mAh T8 from Vapcell are as good as these, even for less drain, I guess we have the actual champs on these cells. Unless Shockli comes with even better cells meanwhile (as they did with their recent 14500 high-drain battery) Evil

I have 2 of these INR16340s but I don’t use them a lot, as I have many On The Road cells.
But I ordered the new OTR 311 flashlight, that I intent to mod and…I guess the Vapcells will get some use now Wink Big Smile

[REVIEWS] ACEBEAM: H20 / TK16 /// AMUTORCH: S3 / S3 vs 219c / AM30 / AX1 / VG10 /// BLITZWOLF: BW-ET1 /// BRINYTE: T28 /// DQG: AA Slim Ti /// FIREFLIES: ROT66 GEN II /// HC-LIGHTS: SS AAA /// KLARUS: XT1C /// LIVARNOLUX: 314791 /// LUMINTOP: Tool AA V2.0 + Tool 25 /// NITEFOX: UT20 / ES10K / K3 /// ODEPRO: KL52 / B108 /// OLIGHT: M2R Warrior /// ON THE ROAD: M1 / i3 / M3 Pro /// ROVYVON: A2 + A5R / E300S / A8 /// SKILHUNT: M150 /// SOFIRN: SF14 + SP10A / SP32A / SP10B /// WUBEN: TO10R / E05 / T70 / E10 / TO50R / E19 /// XTAR: PB2 Charger ///

Tricks: 1 / 2 / 3 / 4 / 5 / 6 / 7 / 8 /// TIR Lenses: 1 / 2/// Others: Biscotti 3 + 1*7135 / Triple TIR w/ XP-G2 ///// My Collection ///// My Review's Blog (PT)

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Geuzzz
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MascaratumB][quote=djozz wrote:

But I ordered the new OTR 311 flashlight, that I intent to mod and…I guess the Vapcells will get some use now Wink Big Smile

Wow, missed that one. Looks like nice new light in the 16340 category.

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Geuzzz][quote=MascaratumB wrote:
djozz wrote:

But I ordered the new OTR 311 flashlight, that I intent to mod and…I guess the Vapcells will get some use now Wink Big Smile

Wow, missed that one. Looks like nice new light in the 16340 category.


I hope it is and I can tell more when it arrives! TrailTrek has a video on it : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-T0SE337vrw Smile

[REVIEWS] ACEBEAM: H20 / TK16 /// AMUTORCH: S3 / S3 vs 219c / AM30 / AX1 / VG10 /// BLITZWOLF: BW-ET1 /// BRINYTE: T28 /// DQG: AA Slim Ti /// FIREFLIES: ROT66 GEN II /// HC-LIGHTS: SS AAA /// KLARUS: XT1C /// LIVARNOLUX: 314791 /// LUMINTOP: Tool AA V2.0 + Tool 25 /// NITEFOX: UT20 / ES10K / K3 /// ODEPRO: KL52 / B108 /// OLIGHT: M2R Warrior /// ON THE ROAD: M1 / i3 / M3 Pro /// ROVYVON: A2 + A5R / E300S / A8 /// SKILHUNT: M150 /// SOFIRN: SF14 + SP10A / SP32A / SP10B /// WUBEN: TO10R / E05 / T70 / E10 / TO50R / E19 /// XTAR: PB2 Charger ///

Tricks: 1 / 2 / 3 / 4 / 5 / 6 / 7 / 8 /// TIR Lenses: 1 / 2/// Others: Biscotti 3 + 1*7135 / Triple TIR w/ XP-G2 ///// My Collection ///// My Review's Blog (PT)

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