grins projector, recoil and test light builds

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grin
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grins projector, recoil and test light builds

Im not an author so cant promise every post will have good granma or even be coherent so I will post lots of photos so that even if I make no sense you can still look at the pics. As I see mistakes I will clear them up so any new readers dont think it was written by a madman Wink
Although this has been done before I had to build a few myself and I thought there might be some interest. The first one is has a 63mm precollimator*/secondary and 100mm primary the driver is a taskled H6flex with I think a 1mm2 white flat.



The beam is the lower middle

Is throws a laser like beam but is not very useful for anything as there is only a very small hotspot. I have also noticed 2 very faint cones of spill.

  • this is not really a pre collimator lens more like a secondary element in the whole lens. My idea with this is that the primary lens is what gives you throw and a longer focal length is better for throw than a short focal length. The 100mm lens in the light has a back focal length of about 135mm, by adding the second element the focal length of the primary can be shortened. With this 100mm lens length is not really a problem. But say you buy the cheapest big lens of alliexpress that is 145mm diameter and has a focal length of 370mm that is a long distance for the light to travel to the lens and also a light 370mm long is a pain. So by useing the 100mm above as a secondary element at about 75-80mm form the led the primary has to be around 120-140mm from the secondary element. Bringing the total lens length to about 200mm which is a lot easier to handle than 370mm.
Edited by: grin on 04/09/2020 - 15:23
Enderman
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Looks sick Big Smile
lux?

grin
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I cant get the measurements right it is something I have to work on. Last few months have been a steep learning curve. I have watched Matt Smiths video many times but still doesnt read properly. I have got readings between 1600m and 2800m. I will get it right eventually it is just a matter of time.
I have a fair selection of lens and have built prototypes and have some other bigger lights half built. I have
2 × 145mm FL 370mm
1 × 150mm FL 200mm
1 × 150mm FL 300mm
1 × 75mm FL 150mm
1 × 178mm FL 319mm
A heap of lens under 100mm so there will be a few builds coming up.
Here is a prototype/test light with 100mm precollimator and 145mm primary the light engine has Sbt-90.2 and Q8 driver. Again I dont have any figures.



The collar does make a difference even with the aperture not being the right size and not polished as well as it could be. The next one I will machine from aluminium.

grin
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Some more photos of the test light above. The FL is too long for the W30 light engine so I will shorten it today and see how it goes.


The tree is about 50m

grin
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Another test rig with 178mm fl 319mm lens, SBT-90.2

W30 beam left

CNCman
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Thanks “ grin “ , this helps give some perspective on actual application. Thumbs Up I’m going to experiment with these lenses too.
.
I ordered an aspheric lens for my water cooled light, diameter 104mm x focal length 110mm, the biggest I could find with a short FL.
This was the last mod on this light that was planned from the start.
I want to order a SBT90.2 and a driver for it but CHINA is down and out of business.
.

CNC & Manual Machinist. Think outside the box too long , cannot find your way back in.

Never give up, Never surrender. Make someone Smile today.

Redlyne22
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Omg. Subscribed This is what im talkimg about!!! Ive built some super thrower using 100+mm lens from rear projection DLP TVs with short Focal length. Keep up the good work and lets see some more cool pics.No ones rocking 56k anymore so let them rip!

Sometimes being a newb is the best part of a hobbie

grin
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CNCman wrote:
I want to order a SBT90.2 and a driver for it but CHINA is down and out of business. .

Life has to go on I have found not a real lot has changed things are coming in as normal. Although Q8 driver delivery will be slow and problematic even without the pandemic.

likevvii
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WOW those are some big boy aspherics, I love it!

I have not seen precollimator builds these years. Could you share some pros and cons to using a precollimator?

Does the FL change when you use two lens?

Where do you get your giant aspherics?

If you want to have better assurance on your measurements; I recommend you to purchase one of maukka’s calibrated lights. He measures everything from CRI, tint, to even lux!
Link:http://budgetlightforum.com/node/61372

You could get your own lux meter and compare his lux reading with yours to find a multiplier value for your lux meter.

grin
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I started with some fasttech lens 100mm and 63mm. long focal length lens are thinner and seem to be cheaper

There are some decent lenses on aliexpress aliexpress $109.23 15%OFF | K9 Large Optical Glass Magnifying Glass Lens Focal Length 385mm 319.5mm Plano Convex Lens Dia 178mm 145mm Big Plano-convex https://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/_dWtQlaL

There are also some (I think) reasonable lenses from edmundoptics

Haha This sounds like blah blah blah. From my observations a long focal length is better than a shorter focal length. The precollimator will shorten the focal length making the light more practical. Although this does increase the hotspot size and brightness and also reduce throw. The closer the precollimator is to its focal point the shorter the distance from the primary lens. If the precollimator is in focus the primary wont focus making it useless.
The best way to see what I mean is to grab 2 cheap lenses and a light with the reflector removed hold them in front outside at night and move them to different distances. One distance can be fixed and the other lens moved to adjust focus. This will give you a better understanding of what happens. That is how I worked it out. It is hard for me to explain because I did no calculations. I hope that helps

I will follow up on your suggestion of a calibration light.

Agro
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grin wrote:
I started with some fasttech lens 100mm and 63mm long focal lengths are cheaper

There are some decent lenses on aliexpress aliexpress $109.23 15%OFF | K9 Large Optical Glass Magnifying Glass Lens Focal Length 385mm 319.5mm Plano Convex Lens Dia 178mm 145mm Big Plano-convex https://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/_dWtQlaL

There are also some (I think) reasonable lenses from edmundoptics

Haha This sounds like blah blah blah. From my observations a long focal length is better than a shorter focal length. The precollimator will shorten the focal length making the light more practical. Although this does increase the hotspot size and brightness and also reduce throw. The closer the precollimator is to its focal point the shorter the distance from the primary lens. If the precollimator is in focus the primary wont focus making it useless.
The best way to see what I mean is to grab 2 cheap lenses and a light with the reflector removed hold them in front outside at night and move them to different distances. One distance can be fixed and the other lens moved to adjust focus. This will give you a better understanding of what happens. That is how I worked it out. It is hard for me to explain because I did no calculations. I hope that helps

I will follow up on your suggestion of a calibration light.


May we get a link without click tracking?
Like
www.aliexpress.com/item/(item number).html
rather than
s.click.aliexpress.com/(whatever)
?
grin
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Yeah sorry about that. I cant work out how to find it does this help?
#_d6I3SJh#

Edit
I use the app on my tablet. This is what I get when i copy the item number. When ever I look for something in a browser it takes me to the german site.
To view 【AU $109.23 15%OFF | K9 Large Optical Glass Magnifying Glass Lens Focal Length 385mm 319.5mm Plano Convex Lens Dia 178mm 145mm Big Plano-convex】 on AliExpress with code #_dVTdqFZ#, copy the whole sentence and open the app.

likevvii
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Thanks for the link. The convex lens on Edmund is interesting. For maximum throw on flashlights, what is the difference between using an aspheric or a spherical lens?

Doing some searches, I find aspherical lens are like a lottery.

Lothar
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Did you machine your own collar? How?

Current Collection:

BLF: BLF-GT90, BLF-GT70 (CW Sliced), BLF GTmini, BLF-LT1; 

BTU: Shocker (3 x SST-40 @ 8A)

Solarforce: L2P (XM-L2 U3 @ 4A), MPP-1 (XP-L HI @ 6A), MPP-3 (3 x XM-L2 U2 @ 12A), M6 (Nichia 319A @ 6A), M8 (XHP-50.2 @ 9A), 9x (9 x XM-L2 U2 @ 2A)

Coming Soon: Lumintop: BLF-GT4; 

grin
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Aspherical lens is like having a very short focal length and I cant get the ones I have to focus properly. My idea originally thought was to use one to do away with the RLT but didnt work like I thought.

I have had a go at making the RLT out of stainless steel butt weld dome endcaps. These do work but i cant get the numbers I have seen quoted but then again I cant seem to get the numbers right anyways. I also brought a marinebeam for the collar to compare with the ones I have had a go at making.
I also think the aperture is fairly important and should be adjusted according to focal length. For the next ones I have got some round nose router bits and I will bore the aperture before I cut.the hemisherical surface.

Lothar
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It would be very interesting to see how your collar compares the th Wavien RLT

Current Collection:

BLF: BLF-GT90, BLF-GT70 (CW Sliced), BLF GTmini, BLF-LT1; 

BTU: Shocker (3 x SST-40 @ 8A)

Solarforce: L2P (XM-L2 U3 @ 4A), MPP-1 (XP-L HI @ 6A), MPP-3 (3 x XM-L2 U2 @ 12A), M6 (Nichia 319A @ 6A), M8 (XHP-50.2 @ 9A), 9x (9 x XM-L2 U2 @ 2A)

Coming Soon: Lumintop: BLF-GT4; 

likevvii
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Lothar wrote:
Did you machine your own collar? How?

One idea that just came to mind after reading your comment,
You could resin print a collar, polish with a steel ball bearing, and then mirror coat it.

grin
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I reckon this will visibly change the beam intensity, it cant not.

likevvii
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Yo…… Is that a gutted W30 or L2K?!! XD
Please post more pics O:

You could boost your driver up a bit like Vinh from SkyLumen. His boosted W30s are all 2.1~2.7Mcd

May I get an approximate measurement or size of the “right angle prism mirror”, the one that is visible above the yellow phosphor? I am building my own LEP and need to figure out about what mirror size to get.

grin
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I should not have been posting yesterdy but I will leave it here for the pics might even remember what i was on about…. and canexplain or add more pics.
Funny I do remember what I was on about. So I will fix the posts up that make no sense.

it is a w30 that I cut off and turned a flange on the end then made an adaptor that slide the torch a retaining holds it in place. The adaptor is the same size that I use to screw in to lots of different lens setups






This didnt work the aperture was to small and blocked the light. but it did make a visible increase to the beam.

grin
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Some pics of a few lenses half built. Not excactly sure what LEDs are going in them yet.

Few things to keep in mind that I have worked out through trial and error.
-The total length of the lens train can be no more than the focal length of the primary lens
-For max throw the secondary lens is better closer to the LED
-For maximum lumens down the paddock the secondary lens is better further way from the LED
-a longer focal length lens is better than a short focal length

Lothar
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Very interesting. Would it be possible to take the following measurements for comparison:
a) LEP with only primary lens
b) LEP with RLT and only primary lens
c) LEP with RLT and both lenses?

Please Smile

Current Collection:

BLF: BLF-GT90, BLF-GT70 (CW Sliced), BLF GTmini, BLF-LT1; 

BTU: Shocker (3 x SST-40 @ 8A)

Solarforce: L2P (XM-L2 U3 @ 4A), MPP-1 (XP-L HI @ 6A), MPP-3 (3 x XM-L2 U2 @ 12A), M6 (Nichia 319A @ 6A), M8 (XHP-50.2 @ 9A), 9x (9 x XM-L2 U2 @ 2A)

Coming Soon: Lumintop: BLF-GT4; 

grin
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I cant really take accurate measurements. One reason I have 3 W30s is I use them as my control lights. Other than that I like them I dont have a real need for one. however I am interested building my own LEP in a different configuration. But will require a different thread.
In the W30 underneath the window you see there is a about 10mm PCX lens with the belly out. I am not sure if it is there for one purpose or two but it will throw all your lens calculations out. Putting the rlt collar on makes it hard to focus because you are trying to reflect light back through a lens. And it is impossible to get the LEP into the collar any further.
that is where the secondary lens comes to the party It can be at half its focal length or closest to its lens to collect more light to direct to the primary lens.
You have to remember that something like blacking out the inside of the lens housing could give more noticable result than spending months trying to get more light.
To add to that I everybody has their own way of doing things and Im not having a go at you i can just be a little crude explaining things

likevvii
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Really thank you grin for taking the time measuring the prism mirror and collar! Much appreciated.

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Some tips:

 

Stainless steel is not a suitable material for making a collar. A collar relies heavily on reflectance of blue light which re-excites the phosphor of the LED. Stainless steel has a low reflectivity in the blue part of the spectrum. Also, you need an actual coated mirror for max performance. Polishing a piece of aluminium will still not be good enough, but should be better than stainles steel. Wavien collars are dichroitic glass mirrors, those have around 95% reflectivity (or better). 

 

If you want a pre-collimator that collects all of the emitted light of the LED and doesn't reduce the luminous intensity you need to use a short-focal length spheric (not aspheric) lens that you position right above the bare die of the LED (less than 1mm above it). See here for an example (it's in German). 

oweban
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mate wtf

coming up for a quick drive to check these out, chopped up w30 Shocked

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The_Driver wrote:

Some tips:


 


Stainless steel is not a suitable material for making a collar. A collar relies heavily on reflectance of blue light which re-excites the phosphor of the LED. Stainless steel has a low reflectivity in the blue part of the spectrum. Also, you need an actual coated mirror for max performance. Polishing a piece of aluminium will still not be good enough, but should be better than stainles steel. Wavien collars are dichroitic glass mirrors, those have around 95% reflectivity (or better). 


 


If you want a pre-collimator that collects all of the emitted light of the LED and doesn’t reduce the luminous intensity you need to use a short-focal length spheric (not aspheric) lens that you position right above the bare die of the LED (less than 1mm above it). See here for an example (it’s in German). 


Why should the pre-collimator be spherical? Not to mess with the asphericity of the main less?
The_Driver
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Agro wrote:
The_Driver wrote:

Some tips:

 

Stainless steel is not a suitable material for making a collar. A collar relies heavily on reflectance of blue light which re-excites the phosphor of the LED. Stainless steel has a low reflectivity in the blue part of the spectrum. Also, you need an actual coated mirror for max performance. Polishing a piece of aluminium will still not be good enough, but should be better than stainles steel. Wavien collars are dichroitic glass mirrors, those have around 95% reflectivity (or better). 

 

If you want a pre-collimator that collects all of the emitted light of the LED and doesn't reduce the luminous intensity you need to use a short-focal length spheric (not aspheric) lens that you position right above the bare die of the LED (less than 1mm above it). See here for an example (it's in German). 

Why should the pre-collimator be spherical? Not to mess with the asphericity of the main less?

 

I'm not sure in this case, it's just the experience of multiple people including me. These kinds of lenses always produced the best results.

grin
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  • yeah first atempt was successful. I cut it by hand meaning I used a srcew driver to turn the chuck. Excuse the language but very rarely does something work with the first idea and the very first attempt. I havent tested it in a light yet but it gets a hot spot exactly the same as the one I brought. Now I can custom make the with fine tuned aperture.





grin
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The_Driver wrote:

Some tips:


 


Stainless steel is not a suitable material for making a collar. A collar relies heavily on reflectance of blue light which re-excites the phosphor of the LED. Stainless steel has a low reflectivity in the blue part of the spectrum. Also, you need an actual coated mirror for max performance. Polishing a piece of aluminium will still not be good enough, but should be better than stainles steel. Wavien collars are dichroitic glass mirrors, those have around 95% reflectivity (or better). 


 


If you want a pre-collimator that collects all of the emitted light of the LED and doesn’t reduce the luminous intensity you need to use a short-focal length spheric (not aspheric) lens that you position right above the bare die of the LED (less than 1mm above it). See here for an example (it’s in German). 

I understand what you are saying about the materials, the stainless steel was laying around looked about the right shape so why not and It does make a visible difference to the beam.
Now that I know I can cut them I will look into silver plating. There are also places that can apply a protective coating. But what you are saying is it is in the actual glass. Well that makes it hard to reproduce at home then.

The small lens above the phosphor in the W30 is probably spherical then. I will have to have a closer look. You are obviously using it behind the collar which makes so much sense. The lense focuses the recycled light back and the collar provides the aperture. I had not got around to putting the lens directly on the led yet. Now you say that the W30 makes much more sense now.
Haha thanks for that, there goes another 6months

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From my own experience i concluded the precollimator lens should be aspherical too.
Not sure why others conclude differently.
Maybe in between is best, i dunno.

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