What I do like about lithium primaries is the cold weather tolerance and the shelf life. The RC-C6 was planned to lie in the glove department of my car for an undefined period of time "just in case" and where I live (Sweden) it can get quite cold during the winter. As far as I understand this would not be an ideal setup for a LiIon battery.
It would be interesting to test this. I can probably get my freezer below -20oC. It would be interesting to see how different cells get on at those temperatures. I will have a think about how I could do this. I have some good and some very cheap CR123s and several RCR123s so I will work out a method.
It very rarely gets that cold here, the all-time record is -27.2 in January 1982 in Braemar, about 60 miles west of here.
The numbers from my light tests are always to be found here.
It would be interesting to test this. I can probably get my freezer below -20oC.
Send me your test lights, as my house is always cold. -50oC according to my MUM
Indeed. I have read a few threads about low temperature performance of different types of batteries amongst others on CPF, and you all know for sure the batteryuniversity, but I never came upon a cold temperature comparison test between Li-Ion and primaries.
Don, if you are seriously willing to go to the task I'll be glad to send you some CR123A for your test.
Gee, I wish I had some of these for my lights in wintertime!
Just now trying to get an old laptop to see its wireless card so I can get it onto the network to load the drivers for the meter. The laptop is not co-operating. At the moment I've attached a thermocouple to the meter and stuck it in the freezer. Just now it is saying -13oC when it should be about -25. Must experiment with positioning.
If I can get the lightbox to fit in the freezer, then I can measure output, if not I'll have to measure current draw. I'm going to put the RC-C6 in the freezer now and let it chill down overnight. I think I will improvise some sort of lightbox that will actually fit in the freezer. Since what we are looking for is the difference between room temperature and frozen, we needn't worry too much about absolute values.
The lightbox doesn't fit and the laptop is giving me fits. However, I'll think of something.
To be continued...
Speaking of manafont storefront issues, I was ordering the BLF custom light, and the first checkout steps confirmed I had just the light in my cart, but after login through paypal, it seemed to add everything I had in my cart from some prior session and was billing/invoicing me couple hundred dollars (I was using the cart as a "wish list" and just dumping all the interesting stuff I see in it). It was right before the last step so I could go back and change the new cart, but that's a kinda major bug.
It also does the odd step of saving the paypal token so that even when I went through the whole checkout process again, it doesn't ask for the login, which is a bit of a security hole combined with the above issue about session id's in the url.
Anyway, this kind of stuff happens with smaller time dealer. Their live chat OTOH was quite helpful.
Reading this makes you smarter: http://lesswrong.com/
The light is now at just under -22oC (-9oF) having been in the freezer for 20 hours. I've not yet figured out how to get good measurements in the freezer so I'll pull it out and do instantaneous, 30 second and 2 minute output measurements. Unfortunately I can't do these in the freezer but the light should still be pretty cold at 2 minutes. 229, 241 and 290 lux with an RCR123 which was fully charged for this test. It is not comfortable holding a light at -22 degrees.
Here's the comparison: Top row is lumens at -22oC, bottom row is lumens at room temperature.
I'm probably going to have to build another lightbox to do more thorough testing, one small enough to fit in the freezer.
I don't have room-temperature numbers for CR123 cells in this light. Probably best to do room-temperature numbers then toss the light in the freezer for a day.
Once I've got a smaller box I'll do instrumented runtimes with different cells.
That's probably done on PayPal's end. The seller has no idea what your PayPal password is and can't authorize any purchases without you telling PayPal that's what you want.
I don't know that it matters since the LED will start heating itself before too long. Maybe you could just keep the batteries in the freezer and have wires coming out to the light and lightbox?
Now that's a good idea!
You can see from the numbers that the light was warming up - output does not normally increase in such tests.
Just thought of another way - I can freeze the cells (in bags) into some water which will keep the temperature nice and low for long enough out of the freezer. Then I can take the blocks of ice (Which has a nice high specific heat capacity) and take them to the lightbox.
It has warmed up dramatically this week, we had snow a couple of weeks ago, and temperatures of -5C - it is forecast to be +10C tonight. With high winds and rain.
Or I could just have gone outside and got at least lowish temperatures.
The only problem with taking the measurements on the kitchen floor was a very large dog who gets very interested in what I'm doing by the freezer. It is difficult to take measurements when she's standing on the equipment to get closer to me. It's also hard to read a meter when she's licking my face - not as much because she loves me as because it was feeding time.
One thing I noticed with my C6 was that the plastic disc holding the switch in contracted more than the aluminium and made the switch action very mushy a it was sliding inside the tailcap. The Q5 version has a much better tailcap and is probably better for very low temperature use for this reason.
I've ordered another small solar cell from DX and have stashed a smaller cardboard box under my desk. Then I can do the instrumented stuff with a laptop sitting on the freezer.
Yes, I know paypal itself is reasonably secure. What's done on Paypal's end is that they probably give you a temp session token back for a request for payment. Even though it works for a bit before expiring, this shouldn't really be saved and reused since it's just a security risk with very little upside. You can check that's different than how DX or any other paypal using vendor does it.
I orderd 3 items from Manafont on Monday (25 Oct) and was almost immediately informed that my order was being processed.
The very next day (Tues) I got an e-mail saying my order was being shipped!
I've ordered stuff from all over and I've never seen things happen this quickly. I live in Singapore and am waiting to see just how long my package takes to arrive. Ordering from DX and LT and FP has taken anything from 8 days to 11 weeks! Let's see if Manafont will set a new record. Will keep y'all updated.
Lights out! That's when things get interesting...
Have you seen the Manafont site it's showing all the old light first, probably the one that they cannot sell.
They had the new ones first maybe thwey want to get rid of old stock.
The best way is price reduction Yes?
Just thought I'd add my experience, based on five orders (so far). All orders were fairly small, usually just a couple of items (flashlights and/or knives). They seem to be pretty good about getting orders out the door. Yes, it's a smaller operation and they arguably have less overhead than the large(r) players but what matters is that I got my orders within 3-4 weeks, which isn't bad at all. Packaging was the regular yellow, padded envelope we've all come to love with plenty of bubble wrap to protect the flashlights. All knives came in a cardboard box with no extra bubble wrap (ie. if the manufacturer doesn't supply bubble wrap you're not getting any). All items were exactly as described. No complaints from me.
As I see it, you have to pay for a tracking number, no matter how much you order (I could be wrong about that since all of my orders were smallish). Prices are mostly on par with the competition (sometimes a bit more, as they seem to round up a lot; I don't think I would have even noticed if I wasn't so used to seeing $1.99 instead of an even $2 everwhere).
As long as they keep adding more knives and flashlights they'll be getting some of my business.
I've had no trouble with orders from Manafont that weren't problems with HK (or UK) Post. I've still not received my BLF special ordered in October, though the Ultrafire H3 ordered two weeks later arrived yesterday. There is a package waiting for me at the PO which is probably either the BLF special or another MrLite light I ordered - which was ordered before the H3. Though it might be a DX order of a PSU for a Dell laptop, but it should be going elsewhere, not here so I hope it isn't that.
Nobody said the PO had to make sense...
Time for a little update for manafont.
From the cashback promotion i recieved 3 dropins and 2 P60 hosts. The q5 1 mode failed in 2 min.
Contacted Jim by means of private messages with the issue. There was the expected request for photo of the item and the package.
Upon supplying it, they refunded me the asking price of the dropin in manapoints for manafont.com use. I believe there would be no problem to get a classic refund but for me it is perfectly suitable as
i requested a same treatment a while ago for some minor items that were delayed by suppliers, they probably thought it was ok for me since i was planning (and notified them) to get another R5 5mode which is great.
So, here it is the first case of malfunctioning product. The process was fast and smooth.
Oh almost forgot... they even took an extra step and reserved a R5 5 mode dropin in case i place an order rightaway so it gets shipped quickly.
Very neat! Good job Jim and manafont!
Admin, you can update the manafont RMA policy if you like with this positive experience.
They're gonna send you a green redcat with a black LED.
Thanks very much for the experience, Budgeteer! Description updated accordingly. And congratulations to Jim @ Manafont for being one of the very few polite, responsive, intelligent customer service guys I've dealt with.
Budget Light Forum ...where Frugal meets with Flashlight!
One idea! Since they are nice you can perhaps make a BLF logo like a certificate with some text like: BLF reccomended trustwothy dealer as a sign of gratitude to put on their page if they want.
It can help us as a community and them since they are not yet widely known. I believe they would like such a certificate from an objective (non bribed) comunity such as ours.
I think it is a good idea. We can all benefit.
Hi there Budgeteer. That's a really good idea! Thanks!
Wow .. that's a really good idea maybe a feedback rating like ebay that people lust after trying to keep it spotless
καὶ τὸ φῶς ἐν τῇ σκοτίᾳ φαίνει καὶ ἡ σκοτία αὐτὸ οὐ κατέλαβεν
I only wish their website had a "wish list" option like the other dealers.
I sent an email to "Jim" about this, and he said he would talk to the management about it.
It's nice to put things you find interesting there, so you can find them easier later.
My experiences with Manafont so far has been excellent.
I would love the sort by price, arrival soo much on manafont.
Also the led category should have flashlights own subcategory by now...
I would like to add some pleasant addon on MF reputation.
A recently bought ultrafire single mode dropin driver failed in about few hours of use. I contacted them for a driver board only if they have spares.
I was immediately contacted and asked for the usual proof of purchase. The process was smooth and easy. I have to take the driver picture but thats an easy task.
But there is the astonishing part!
They asked me if i would rather want the 5 mode instead of single if i like it better and that it would be sent along with the led.
Intermission: I once contacted Jim for a SMO reflector if they have some to sell...
This information was also passed to my support contact and she decided to send me the WHOLE dropin with SMO reflector since i previously asked for one, so they sent me one for free!
The whole process with few mails was around 2-3hours and the replacement is already shipped!
Now youre all wainting that i write it was all a joke eh?
It is true! As it may sound too good to be true but it is true.
To my book, manafont has proven twice their commitment and made an outstanding service!
That's excellent news Budgeteer. Manafont will be my first choice if the same product is available at several retailers. And don't tell anyone, but I'd be willing to pay several dollars more for a Manafont product because their customer service is infinitely better than the competition. Any light we are interested in buying we should really request to Manafont to see if they can offer it first.
For my part, I noticed that they had an error in a flashlight description, apparently mixing up the description of two Tank007 models, listing the TK-568 as having a magnetic tail. I notified them, and within about 12 hours they thanked me for notifying them and changed the description. That fast.
Yep, that's why i gladly share the info. It the rare cases something goes wrong you have some very decent after sales support which is quite rare nowadays.
Oh that's very good to hear, I might have to start browsing their site more often
The outstanding customerpolicy of Manafont should be the standard at any vendor.
They surely gets more of my business.
Cheap quality is good - Expensive crap isn´t
i placed an order yesterday, for several items totalling $98(US currency)
today i logged into manafont's website, and there is no record of my purchase, although my card has been charged.
not good !
Contact Jim at manafont he will sort it out. He is very fast to reply usually but keep in mind timezone differences. Well Jim is not the only one tho, anyone will help you fast no need to look for Jim especially but he is often seen on BLF with promotions and such.
how do i contact Jim? i have sent a message through their so-called 'live support', and through the 'contact us' link.
hopefully they get it sorted out quickly. i'm anxious to receive my order!
Thats more than enough. Might get tricky since it is unfortunately friday. At worst expect a reply on monday.
Damn, i must get paid for being a customer care for manafont lol.
Just today i recieved a RMA for one failed r5 dropin. So far the service and after sales support was awesome i don't think you will have any problems sorting it out. I did many orders at MF without any issues in ordering steps.
Dont worry, if nothing else paypal is also an option but it will probably be unneeded. No need to worry as of now and enjoy the weekend!
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