Are my estimations correct? (parasitic drain in different lights)

41 posts / 0 new
Last post

Pages

MascaratumB
MascaratumB's picture
Offline
Last seen: 3 hours 27 min ago
Joined: 10/29/2016 - 12:12
Posts: 4714
Location: Portugal
Are my estimations correct? (parasitic drain in different lights)

Since 2 days ago, and due to this thread (http://budgetlightforum.com/node/72116), I started thinking about some lights I have and started “testing” them. What they have in common is that all are e-switch flashlights.

The lights in question are: Skilhunt M150, Skilhunt M200 and On The Road M3 Pro.

Both Skilhunt lights have the possibility to do electronic lock-out and to enable the switch blinking red, as a way to find them in the dark. This possibility can be enabled or disabled. The OTR M3 Pro doesn’t have electronic lock-out.

—————————-

I did a simple “test”:
- In the Skilhunt flashlights, I measured the battery voltage, put the battery into the lights, locked them with the blinking switch enabled and after some hours, I took the battery out, measured the battery voltage again. After this, I put the battery into the lights again, locked them without the blinking switch enabled and after some hours, I checked the batteries again.

- In the OTR M3 Pro, I just measured battery voltage, put the battery on the light and after some hours I checked the battery voltage again.

- During these periods, I didn’t turn the flashlights ON, and the only light that appeared was because the Skilhunts turn the light ON while being locked out.

—————————-

What I got:
Skilhunt M150 (with blinking switch enabled)
Starting voltage = 3.68V
Voltage after 6 hours = 3.65V
Drain: 0.03V in 6h

Skilhunt M150 (with blinking switch disabled)
Starting voltage = 3.65V
Voltage after 10 hours = 3.65V
Drain: 0.00V

Skilhunt M200 (with blinking switch enabled)
Starting voltage = 3.81V
Voltage after 13 hours = 3.79V
Drain: 0.02V in 13h

Skilhunt M200 (with blinking switch disabled)
Starting voltage = 3.79V
Voltage after 10 hours = 3.79V
Drain: 0.00V in 10h

On the Road M3 Pro
Starting voltage = 4.11V
Voltage after 7 hours = 4.06V
Drain: 0.05V in 7h

Even if this is not “super scientific measured” data, are my estimations (BELOW) correct about the potential draining from 4.20V to 2.80 (=1.4V) ?
I did a “Rule of 3” calculation.

Skilhunt M150 (with blinking switch enabled)
In this light, a battery would be drained from 4.2V to 2.8V in around 11.6 days
[0.03V drained in 6h; so 1.4V would drain in 280h. 280h = 11.66 days]

Skilhunt M200 (with blinking switch enabled)
In this light, a battery would be drained from 4.2V to 2.8V in around 37.9 days
[0.02V drained in 13h; so 1.4V would drain in 910h. 910h = 37.916 days]

On the Road M3 Pro
In this light, a battery would be drained from 4.2V to 2.8V in around 8.1 days
[0.05V drained in 7h; so 1.4V would drain in 196h. 196h = 8.16 days]

———————————————————-

Why am I doing this?
To inform manufacturers about this type of drain in these e-switch lights, and to lead them to make this information public for customers.
I may, of course, have “faulty” flashlights and these may be abnormal drains, but I guess people should know about this when buying their lights.

Also, there is a great possibility to drain the batteries down to 0V, which is even worse than just draining to 2.8V…

So, help me on this “exercise” and share your data if you have them.

And please comment on how “good” or “bad” are these draining values.

Thanks in advance Thumbs Up

[REVIEWS] ACEBEAM: H20 / TK16 /// AMUTORCH: S3 / S3 vs 219c / AM30 / AX1 / VG10 /// BLITZWOLF: BW-ET1 /// BRINYTE: T28 /// DQG: AA Slim Ti /// FIREFLIES: ROT66 GEN II /// HC-LIGHTS: SS AAA /// KLARUS: XT1C /// LIVARNOLUX: 314791 /// LUMINTOP: Tool AA V2.0 + Tool 25 /// NITEFOX: UT20 / ES10K / K3 /// ODEPRO: KL52 / B108 /// OLIGHT: M2R Warrior /// ON THE ROAD: M1 / i3 / M3 Pro /// ROVYVON: A2 + A5R / E300S / A8 /// SKILHUNT: M150 /// SOFIRN: SF14 + SP10A / SP32A / SP10B /// WUBEN: TO10R / E05 / T70 / E10 / TO50R / E19 /// XTAR: PB2 Charger ///

Tricks: 1 / 2 / 3 / 4 / 5 / 6 / 7 / 8 /// TIR Lenses: 1 / 2/// Others: Biscotti 3 + 1*7135 / Triple TIR w/ XP-G2 ///// My Collection ///// My Review's Blog (PT)

OL Contest 2019

GIVEAWAY: 1 / 2

FlashKat
Offline
Last seen: 1 day 6 hours ago
Joined: 11/27/2014 - 20:54
Posts: 180
Location: Anaheim, CA

Most of my lights I lock them out either by unscrewing the tailcap, or the head. Tailcap does not always lock out.

Lightbringer
Lightbringer's picture
Offline
Last seen: 5 hours 10 min ago
Joined: 08/30/2016 - 14:12
Posts: 11105
Location: nyc

Voltage vs capacity is pretty nonlinear, and even varies by type of cell. Best to go by current, and extrapolate.

Eg, a 1mA drain would be 2400H for a fully-charged 2400mAH cell. So 2400/24 would be 100days, around 3mos.

A 10mA drain (eg, light with magnetic ring/slider) would have only 10days before draining it dry. Etc.

09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0

MascaratumB
MascaratumB's picture
Offline
Last seen: 3 hours 27 min ago
Joined: 10/29/2016 - 12:12
Posts: 4714
Location: Portugal
FlashKat wrote:
Most of my lights I lock them out either by unscrewing the tailcap, or the head. Tailcap does not always lock out.

Well, I believe these lights also lock physically (although I suspect the OTR M3 Pro doesn’t have stop the drain – I may have a faulty light).

However, the question here is not what is “practical” or not for us users, but the “design” of the lights and what they may imply for people that are not always looking to these details and that may “run out of juice” in the middle or nowhere while expecting the lights to have battery.
That is my major concern (along with the potential drain that it takes for the batteries if they go down to 0V).

Lightbringer wrote:
Voltage vs capacity is pretty nonlinear, and even varies by type of cell. Best to go by current, and extrapolate.

Eg, a 1mA drain would be 2400H for a fully-charged 2400mAH cell. So 2400/24 would be 100days, around 3mos.

A 10mA drain (eg, light with magnetic ring/slider) would have only 10days before draining it dry. Etc.

Ok I think I got some of this, but maybe not all, so bear with me.

I know I am dealing with many variables here, but if I use other batteries and the light behaves the same way (same drain), doesn’t it imply that the flashlight will stop working properly when flashlight reads “2.8V” or less (or the cut-off voltage it works with)?

That’s what I’m “worried” about and the measurements above are just an exercise. Maybe manufacturers can decrease the drain.
I now that the calculation you did is more reliable though.

(I’m sleepy so all of this can make no sense… Facepalm )

[REVIEWS] ACEBEAM: H20 / TK16 /// AMUTORCH: S3 / S3 vs 219c / AM30 / AX1 / VG10 /// BLITZWOLF: BW-ET1 /// BRINYTE: T28 /// DQG: AA Slim Ti /// FIREFLIES: ROT66 GEN II /// HC-LIGHTS: SS AAA /// KLARUS: XT1C /// LIVARNOLUX: 314791 /// LUMINTOP: Tool AA V2.0 + Tool 25 /// NITEFOX: UT20 / ES10K / K3 /// ODEPRO: KL52 / B108 /// OLIGHT: M2R Warrior /// ON THE ROAD: M1 / i3 / M3 Pro /// ROVYVON: A2 + A5R / E300S / A8 /// SKILHUNT: M150 /// SOFIRN: SF14 + SP10A / SP32A / SP10B /// WUBEN: TO10R / E05 / T70 / E10 / TO50R / E19 /// XTAR: PB2 Charger ///

Tricks: 1 / 2 / 3 / 4 / 5 / 6 / 7 / 8 /// TIR Lenses: 1 / 2/// Others: Biscotti 3 + 1*7135 / Triple TIR w/ XP-G2 ///// My Collection ///// My Review's Blog (PT)

OL Contest 2019

GIVEAWAY: 1 / 2

Lightbringer
Lightbringer's picture
Offline
Last seen: 5 hours 10 min ago
Joined: 08/30/2016 - 14:12
Posts: 11105
Location: nyc

Someone (HJK?) posted graphs of various makes of cells and capacity vs voltage. Some cells peter out at 3.4V and drop like a rock suddenly (ie, are already near 0% at that higher voltage), while others have a gradual taper down to 2.8V or whatever and still have plenty of juice left at 3.4V.

Best it to just get the capacity of the cell and measure current draw of the light.

09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0

gchart
gchart's picture
Offline
Last seen: 5 hours 42 min ago
Joined: 03/19/2016 - 11:57
Posts: 2109
Location: Central IL

Yup, LB. It was HKJ: https://lygte-info.dk/info/BatteryChargePercent%20UK.html

MascaratumB, like LB was saying originally, it is best to measure this using a DMM if possible. I have one capable of measuring “uA” while most of the rest can at least measure “mA”. Essentially you remove the tailcap, put the DMM in uA or mA mode, and put the leads in between the battery and the body (replacing the path of the tailcap). This will tell you the rate of drain.

Many times if something active is happening (like a blink) the MCU may be left running at normal speed instead of sleeping. This can have a very high drain. Like 10mA vs 5uA (0.005mA).

MascaratumB
MascaratumB's picture
Offline
Last seen: 3 hours 27 min ago
Joined: 10/29/2016 - 12:12
Posts: 4714
Location: Portugal

Lightbringer wrote:
Someone (HJK?) posted graphs of various makes of cells and capacity vs voltage. Some cells peter out at 3.4V and drop like a rock suddenly (ie, are already near 0% at that higher voltage), while others have a gradual taper down to 2.8V or whatever and still have plenty of juice left at 3.4V.

Best it to just get the capacity of the cell and measure current draw of the light.

Ok, now I got it! Like I said, yesterday I was sleepy and my brain was not doing the right connections!
So, the drain may not be linear, then the estimated time to drain the battery can be over or underestimated.
Thanks LB Wink

gchart wrote:
Yup, LB. It was HKJ: https://lygte-info.dk/info/BatteryChargePercent%20UK.html

MascaratumB, like LB was saying originally, it is best to measure this using a DMM if possible. I have one capable of measuring “uA” while most of the rest can at least measure “mA”. Essentially you remove the tailcap, put the DMM in uA or mA mode, and put the leads in between the battery and the body (replacing the path of the tailcap). This will tell you the rate of drain.

Many times if something active is happening (like a blink) the MCU may be left running at normal speed instead of sleeping. This can have a very high drain. Like 10mA vs 5uA (0.005mA).

Thanks gchart! I tried with my Uni-T UT33D multimeter but I guess it doesn’t read such small values. I need to get a decent one or a DMM to make this type of measurement!

Also, as I am not familiar with some of these measurements and concepts (theoretically and empirically) I was relying more on the type of “action/tests” i did above.

Now I see they may not be worth due to the aspects you guys mentioned Wink
Thanks again for the clarification!! Thumbs Up

[REVIEWS] ACEBEAM: H20 / TK16 /// AMUTORCH: S3 / S3 vs 219c / AM30 / AX1 / VG10 /// BLITZWOLF: BW-ET1 /// BRINYTE: T28 /// DQG: AA Slim Ti /// FIREFLIES: ROT66 GEN II /// HC-LIGHTS: SS AAA /// KLARUS: XT1C /// LIVARNOLUX: 314791 /// LUMINTOP: Tool AA V2.0 + Tool 25 /// NITEFOX: UT20 / ES10K / K3 /// ODEPRO: KL52 / B108 /// OLIGHT: M2R Warrior /// ON THE ROAD: M1 / i3 / M3 Pro /// ROVYVON: A2 + A5R / E300S / A8 /// SKILHUNT: M150 /// SOFIRN: SF14 + SP10A / SP32A / SP10B /// WUBEN: TO10R / E05 / T70 / E10 / TO50R / E19 /// XTAR: PB2 Charger ///

Tricks: 1 / 2 / 3 / 4 / 5 / 6 / 7 / 8 /// TIR Lenses: 1 / 2/// Others: Biscotti 3 + 1*7135 / Triple TIR w/ XP-G2 ///// My Collection ///// My Review's Blog (PT)

OL Contest 2019

GIVEAWAY: 1 / 2

moderator007
moderator007's picture
Offline
Last seen: 3 hours 21 min ago
Joined: 12/23/2012 - 04:47
Posts: 3361
Location: North Carolina

MascaratumB wrote:

Thanks gchart! I tried with my Uni-T UT33D multimeter but I guess it doesn’t read such small values. I need to get a decent one or a DMM to make this type of measurement!

Also, as I am not familiar with some of these measurements and concepts (theoretically and empirically) I was relying more on the type of “action/tests” i did above.

Now I see they may not be worth due to the aspects you guys mentioned Wink
Thanks again for the clarification!! Thumbs Up


I’m not sure, but it looks like your model does measure mico amps. It’s marked 2000u at about 7’oclock on the selector dail.
That should be plenty good enough for parasitic drain measurements.
MascaratumB
MascaratumB's picture
Offline
Last seen: 3 hours 27 min ago
Joined: 10/29/2016 - 12:12
Posts: 4714
Location: Portugal
moderator007 wrote:
I’m not sure, but it looks like your model does measure mico amps. It’s marked 2000u at about 7’oclock on the selector dail. That should be plenty good enough for parasitic drain measurements.

Please see if I am doing something wrong in the images below.
I am trying to measure on a Skilhunt M150 and on a Sofirn SF14.

[REVIEWS] ACEBEAM: H20 / TK16 /// AMUTORCH: S3 / S3 vs 219c / AM30 / AX1 / VG10 /// BLITZWOLF: BW-ET1 /// BRINYTE: T28 /// DQG: AA Slim Ti /// FIREFLIES: ROT66 GEN II /// HC-LIGHTS: SS AAA /// KLARUS: XT1C /// LIVARNOLUX: 314791 /// LUMINTOP: Tool AA V2.0 + Tool 25 /// NITEFOX: UT20 / ES10K / K3 /// ODEPRO: KL52 / B108 /// OLIGHT: M2R Warrior /// ON THE ROAD: M1 / i3 / M3 Pro /// ROVYVON: A2 + A5R / E300S / A8 /// SKILHUNT: M150 /// SOFIRN: SF14 + SP10A / SP32A / SP10B /// WUBEN: TO10R / E05 / T70 / E10 / TO50R / E19 /// XTAR: PB2 Charger ///

Tricks: 1 / 2 / 3 / 4 / 5 / 6 / 7 / 8 /// TIR Lenses: 1 / 2/// Others: Biscotti 3 + 1*7135 / Triple TIR w/ XP-G2 ///// My Collection ///// My Review's Blog (PT)

OL Contest 2019

GIVEAWAY: 1 / 2

gchart
gchart's picture
Offline
Last seen: 5 hours 42 min ago
Joined: 03/19/2016 - 11:57
Posts: 2109
Location: Central IL

You might give the next setting or two a try (20mA or 200mA). The 2000uA setting is max 2mA. The lights might be max’ing that out. Especially the SF14 being a clicky, the flashlight will try turning on and will likely be using more than 2mA.

Even the M150 will probably be over 2mA. The MCU will try turning on and unless they’re using a really low power mode, it’ll initially be quite a bit over 2mA.

MascaratumB
MascaratumB's picture
Offline
Last seen: 3 hours 27 min ago
Joined: 10/29/2016 - 12:12
Posts: 4714
Location: Portugal

gchart wrote:
You might give the next setting or two a try (20mA or 200mA). The 2000uA setting is max 2mA. The lights might be max’ing that out. Especially the SF14 being a clicky, the flashlight will try turning on and will likely be using more than 2mA.

Even the M150 will probably be over 2mA. The MCU will try turning on and unless they’re using a really low power mode, it’ll initially be quite a bit over 2mA.

Just tried what you mentioned with 4 different lights (Skilhunt M150 and M200, OTR M3 Pro, and Sofirn SF14).
I tried all 4 on the three settings (2000, 200 and 20) and the results are always “Zeros” Oops

I guess the multimeter is damaged Oops
I went to look for an older post I did and it was working… not now .

So I will not have results with this Sad and this function is ruined…

Thanks again for your support on this and for your explanations!!!

[REVIEWS] ACEBEAM: H20 / TK16 /// AMUTORCH: S3 / S3 vs 219c / AM30 / AX1 / VG10 /// BLITZWOLF: BW-ET1 /// BRINYTE: T28 /// DQG: AA Slim Ti /// FIREFLIES: ROT66 GEN II /// HC-LIGHTS: SS AAA /// KLARUS: XT1C /// LIVARNOLUX: 314791 /// LUMINTOP: Tool AA V2.0 + Tool 25 /// NITEFOX: UT20 / ES10K / K3 /// ODEPRO: KL52 / B108 /// OLIGHT: M2R Warrior /// ON THE ROAD: M1 / i3 / M3 Pro /// ROVYVON: A2 + A5R / E300S / A8 /// SKILHUNT: M150 /// SOFIRN: SF14 + SP10A / SP32A / SP10B /// WUBEN: TO10R / E05 / T70 / E10 / TO50R / E19 /// XTAR: PB2 Charger ///

Tricks: 1 / 2 / 3 / 4 / 5 / 6 / 7 / 8 /// TIR Lenses: 1 / 2/// Others: Biscotti 3 + 1*7135 / Triple TIR w/ XP-G2 ///// My Collection ///// My Review's Blog (PT)

OL Contest 2019

GIVEAWAY: 1 / 2

kennybobby
kennybobby's picture
Offline
Last seen: 24 min ago
Joined: 05/10/2017 - 09:13
Posts: 180
Location: huntspatch, alabama

It may be that the current probe fuse has blown on your meter. Easy to do this accidentally by trying to measure something that exceeds the rating (200mA in your case).

Try the 10A probe hole for the positive lead and the 10A setting on the dial, then reduce the setting one step at a time to see the reading.

MascaratumB
MascaratumB's picture
Offline
Last seen: 3 hours 27 min ago
Joined: 10/29/2016 - 12:12
Posts: 4714
Location: Portugal

kennybobby wrote:
It may be that the current probe fuse has blown on your meter. Easy to do this accidentally by trying to measure something that exceeds the rating (200mA in your case).

Try the 10A probe hole for the positive lead and the 10A setting on the dial, then reduce the setting one step at a time to see the reading.


That’s probably what happened Oops And…it is probably not an easy fix, is it? Tired

I tried what you suggested, but only zeros again. It was the fuse, most probably.
Thanks for the suggestion!

[REVIEWS] ACEBEAM: H20 / TK16 /// AMUTORCH: S3 / S3 vs 219c / AM30 / AX1 / VG10 /// BLITZWOLF: BW-ET1 /// BRINYTE: T28 /// DQG: AA Slim Ti /// FIREFLIES: ROT66 GEN II /// HC-LIGHTS: SS AAA /// KLARUS: XT1C /// LIVARNOLUX: 314791 /// LUMINTOP: Tool AA V2.0 + Tool 25 /// NITEFOX: UT20 / ES10K / K3 /// ODEPRO: KL52 / B108 /// OLIGHT: M2R Warrior /// ON THE ROAD: M1 / i3 / M3 Pro /// ROVYVON: A2 + A5R / E300S / A8 /// SKILHUNT: M150 /// SOFIRN: SF14 + SP10A / SP32A / SP10B /// WUBEN: TO10R / E05 / T70 / E10 / TO50R / E19 /// XTAR: PB2 Charger ///

Tricks: 1 / 2 / 3 / 4 / 5 / 6 / 7 / 8 /// TIR Lenses: 1 / 2/// Others: Biscotti 3 + 1*7135 / Triple TIR w/ XP-G2 ///// My Collection ///// My Review's Blog (PT)

OL Contest 2019

GIVEAWAY: 1 / 2

moderator007
moderator007's picture
Offline
Last seen: 3 hours 21 min ago
Joined: 12/23/2012 - 04:47
Posts: 3361
Location: North Carolina

I think you have to switch the red+ probe lead to the Amp side, far left hole. Thumbs Up
Alot of meters have this same feature.

kennybobby
kennybobby's picture
Offline
Last seen: 24 min ago
Joined: 05/10/2017 - 09:13
Posts: 180
Location: huntspatch, alabama

The fuse should be an easy fix if you have a spare fuse—sometimes there is a spare in the case. You will have to open the cover, likely some screws on the back cover to access the battery and fuses.

MascaratumB
MascaratumB's picture
Offline
Last seen: 3 hours 27 min ago
Joined: 10/29/2016 - 12:12
Posts: 4714
Location: Portugal

moderator007 wrote:
I think you have to switch the red+ probe lead to the Amp side, far left hole. Thumbs Up

I tried it on both, middle and left, and on the different settings above. Nothing works… Sometimes the – appears, but it disappears then…
I believe it is “poof” Facepalm

[REVIEWS] ACEBEAM: H20 / TK16 /// AMUTORCH: S3 / S3 vs 219c / AM30 / AX1 / VG10 /// BLITZWOLF: BW-ET1 /// BRINYTE: T28 /// DQG: AA Slim Ti /// FIREFLIES: ROT66 GEN II /// HC-LIGHTS: SS AAA /// KLARUS: XT1C /// LIVARNOLUX: 314791 /// LUMINTOP: Tool AA V2.0 + Tool 25 /// NITEFOX: UT20 / ES10K / K3 /// ODEPRO: KL52 / B108 /// OLIGHT: M2R Warrior /// ON THE ROAD: M1 / i3 / M3 Pro /// ROVYVON: A2 + A5R / E300S / A8 /// SKILHUNT: M150 /// SOFIRN: SF14 + SP10A / SP32A / SP10B /// WUBEN: TO10R / E05 / T70 / E10 / TO50R / E19 /// XTAR: PB2 Charger ///

Tricks: 1 / 2 / 3 / 4 / 5 / 6 / 7 / 8 /// TIR Lenses: 1 / 2/// Others: Biscotti 3 + 1*7135 / Triple TIR w/ XP-G2 ///// My Collection ///// My Review's Blog (PT)

OL Contest 2019

GIVEAWAY: 1 / 2

moderator007
moderator007's picture
Offline
Last seen: 3 hours 21 min ago
Joined: 12/23/2012 - 04:47
Posts: 3361
Location: North Carolina

Then like others have said it’s about got to be the fuse.
You can just jump the fuse to get it working but I wouldn’t try to actually measure current draw with the light full on unprotected like that.
Even a lesser value fuse would work for measuring the parasitic drain.
The red probe lead will have to be in the left side hole though.

MascaratumB
MascaratumB's picture
Offline
Last seen: 3 hours 27 min ago
Joined: 10/29/2016 - 12:12
Posts: 4714
Location: Portugal
kennybobby wrote:
The fuse should be an easy fix if you have a spare fuse—sometimes there is a spare in the case. You will have to open the cover, likely some screws on the back cover to access the battery and fuses.

Given the current situation I may have to wait some weeks to take it to the store where I bought it and check if they have fuses there. It is a small shop, but the guy seems savy on this.

moderator007 wrote:
Then like others have said it’s about got to be the fuse.

Stupid fuse … or stupid me Angry
Now I won’t be able to entertain myself measuring this Facepalm

Thanks for the help folks Thumbs Up

[REVIEWS] ACEBEAM: H20 / TK16 /// AMUTORCH: S3 / S3 vs 219c / AM30 / AX1 / VG10 /// BLITZWOLF: BW-ET1 /// BRINYTE: T28 /// DQG: AA Slim Ti /// FIREFLIES: ROT66 GEN II /// HC-LIGHTS: SS AAA /// KLARUS: XT1C /// LIVARNOLUX: 314791 /// LUMINTOP: Tool AA V2.0 + Tool 25 /// NITEFOX: UT20 / ES10K / K3 /// ODEPRO: KL52 / B108 /// OLIGHT: M2R Warrior /// ON THE ROAD: M1 / i3 / M3 Pro /// ROVYVON: A2 + A5R / E300S / A8 /// SKILHUNT: M150 /// SOFIRN: SF14 + SP10A / SP32A / SP10B /// WUBEN: TO10R / E05 / T70 / E10 / TO50R / E19 /// XTAR: PB2 Charger ///

Tricks: 1 / 2 / 3 / 4 / 5 / 6 / 7 / 8 /// TIR Lenses: 1 / 2/// Others: Biscotti 3 + 1*7135 / Triple TIR w/ XP-G2 ///// My Collection ///// My Review's Blog (PT)

OL Contest 2019

GIVEAWAY: 1 / 2

moderator007
moderator007's picture
Offline
Last seen: 3 hours 21 min ago
Joined: 12/23/2012 - 04:47
Posts: 3361
Location: North Carolina

Two screws and the rest is up to you.

Lightbringer
Lightbringer's picture
Offline
Last seen: 5 hours 10 min ago
Joined: 08/30/2016 - 14:12
Posts: 11105
Location: nyc

Take a 9V battery and hold one lead, touch the other lead to one nipple (on the battery, duh), then touch the other nipple with your opposite hand. Ie, use yourself as a resistor. See how much current flows through the meter. You can throttle it by squeezing harder on the leads and lightening up, too.

The SF14 is a tail-clicky, no? So making any connection is essentially turning it on, full blast. The fuse won’t blow, but it’d show overrange “0L” or similar.

The sense resistance at the lowest scale might be too high to even let it get started, dunno.

So… first check the ammeter through a large resistance (multimeg). The “10A” socket is only used at the 10A range, and is unfused. That can make your meter go pouf, but V/Ω/mA should be fused.

09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0

MascaratumB
MascaratumB's picture
Offline
Last seen: 3 hours 27 min ago
Joined: 10/29/2016 - 12:12
Posts: 4714
Location: Portugal

Can I take some conclusions through this comparison?
Mine (left) is different. It only has 1 fuse, and it is not ceramic… Oops

[REVIEWS] ACEBEAM: H20 / TK16 /// AMUTORCH: S3 / S3 vs 219c / AM30 / AX1 / VG10 /// BLITZWOLF: BW-ET1 /// BRINYTE: T28 /// DQG: AA Slim Ti /// FIREFLIES: ROT66 GEN II /// HC-LIGHTS: SS AAA /// KLARUS: XT1C /// LIVARNOLUX: 314791 /// LUMINTOP: Tool AA V2.0 + Tool 25 /// NITEFOX: UT20 / ES10K / K3 /// ODEPRO: KL52 / B108 /// OLIGHT: M2R Warrior /// ON THE ROAD: M1 / i3 / M3 Pro /// ROVYVON: A2 + A5R / E300S / A8 /// SKILHUNT: M150 /// SOFIRN: SF14 + SP10A / SP32A / SP10B /// WUBEN: TO10R / E05 / T70 / E10 / TO50R / E19 /// XTAR: PB2 Charger ///

Tricks: 1 / 2 / 3 / 4 / 5 / 6 / 7 / 8 /// TIR Lenses: 1 / 2/// Others: Biscotti 3 + 1*7135 / Triple TIR w/ XP-G2 ///// My Collection ///// My Review's Blog (PT)

OL Contest 2019

GIVEAWAY: 1 / 2

moderator007
moderator007's picture
Offline
Last seen: 3 hours 21 min ago
Joined: 12/23/2012 - 04:47
Posts: 3361
Location: North Carolina

I hate to say it but the current measurement part of your meter maybe toast.
That’s a little dissapointing that they obmitted the fuse to save a few cents.
I went back and looked through the owners manual of the Uni-T UT33D and all current measurements are made on the far left red probe hole. Which is the far right hole on the back of the pcb where the fuse should have been. The actual board has been designed to jump the fuse by a added trace. The trace could be cut and a fuse added but if it’s toast there’s no point unless you had one that worked. They had to actually go back to their gerber files and add that trace to jump the fuse and have that new file submitted to the pcb manufacture with new boards being made just to admitt the fuse to save some pennys. Facepalm
It also says as a warning that if the fuse blows it could still damage the meter.
Well, yours did not have a fuse to start with, so it could be damaged.
.
Reading from page 17 of the manual.
https://f00.psgsm.net/p/840023/UT33BCD_Eng_Manual.pdf

gchart
gchart's picture
Offline
Last seen: 5 hours 42 min ago
Joined: 03/19/2016 - 11:57
Posts: 2109
Location: Central IL

Always leave the black one in “COM”.

According to the front of your meter, the red should be in the left for > 200mA and that port is not not protected by a fuse. For < 200mA use the center port. It is fused. But if you use it for > 200mA (easy to do) you could blow the fuse.

MascaratumB
MascaratumB's picture
Offline
Last seen: 3 hours 27 min ago
Joined: 10/29/2016 - 12:12
Posts: 4714
Location: Portugal
moderator007 wrote:
I hate to say it but the current measurement part of your meter maybe toast. That’s a little dissapointing that they obmitted the fuse to save a few cents. I went back and looked through the owners maual of the Uni-T UT33D and all current measurements are made on the far left red probe hole. Which is the far right hole on the back of the pcb where the fuse should have been. The actual board has been designed to jump the fuse by a added trace. The trace could be cut and a fuse added but if it’s toast there’s no point unless you had one that worked. They had to actually go back to their gerber files and add that trace to jump the fuse and have that new file submitted to the pcb manufacture with new boards being made just to admitt the fuse to save some pennys. Facepalm It also says as a warning that if the fuse blows it could still damage the meter. Well, yours did not have a fuse to start with, so it could be damaged.

gchart wrote:
Always leave the black one in “COM”.

According to the front of your meter, the red should be in the left for >200mA and that port is not not protected by a fuse. For 200mA (easy to do) you could blow the fuse.

Thanks for checking it!!
I was a bit Shocked when I noticed that mine didn’t have the fuse…
I will have to go to the store where I bought it and ask the seller about this.

Not knowing how this things works completely, I may have screwed up the only fuse it has, so my fault is there too.
However, it seems that the other fuse could have been useful avoid some damage, no?…

The rest of the functions seem to work well, so far. I tested LEDs and battery voltage. So far they seem to be working except this… Tired

I will have to get a DMM as it seems more appropriate to the type of measurements we do concerning flashlights.

Thanks again folks for your help and for checking this stuff! I still have a lot to learn…

[REVIEWS] ACEBEAM: H20 / TK16 /// AMUTORCH: S3 / S3 vs 219c / AM30 / AX1 / VG10 /// BLITZWOLF: BW-ET1 /// BRINYTE: T28 /// DQG: AA Slim Ti /// FIREFLIES: ROT66 GEN II /// HC-LIGHTS: SS AAA /// KLARUS: XT1C /// LIVARNOLUX: 314791 /// LUMINTOP: Tool AA V2.0 + Tool 25 /// NITEFOX: UT20 / ES10K / K3 /// ODEPRO: KL52 / B108 /// OLIGHT: M2R Warrior /// ON THE ROAD: M1 / i3 / M3 Pro /// ROVYVON: A2 + A5R / E300S / A8 /// SKILHUNT: M150 /// SOFIRN: SF14 + SP10A / SP32A / SP10B /// WUBEN: TO10R / E05 / T70 / E10 / TO50R / E19 /// XTAR: PB2 Charger ///

Tricks: 1 / 2 / 3 / 4 / 5 / 6 / 7 / 8 /// TIR Lenses: 1 / 2/// Others: Biscotti 3 + 1*7135 / Triple TIR w/ XP-G2 ///// My Collection ///// My Review's Blog (PT)

OL Contest 2019

GIVEAWAY: 1 / 2

kennybobby
kennybobby's picture
Offline
Last seen: 24 min ago
Joined: 05/10/2017 - 09:13
Posts: 180
Location: huntspatch, alabama

The big bare wire is the current sense shunt for the 10A range and it is certainly okay. It looks like your fuse is intact too? So no blown components.

My guess is that either the wipers of the rotary switch are not making a good contact to complete the circuit, or the Chip On Board (COB) controller is broken. You should be able to inspect the wipers to see if they contact or have a gap.

You should be able to read current with the left or center probe socket, the sensitivity and fusing is the only difference, but try the left with a known low-level current and then work your way on the settings.

moderator007
moderator007's picture
Offline
Last seen: 3 hours 21 min ago
Joined: 12/23/2012 - 04:47
Posts: 3361
Location: North Carolina

I found a clearer pic of the labeling for the probe holes. The red center probe hole does look like it says ma with a 200ma fused.
So I’m assuming that the 3 positions of 2000u, 20m, and 200m probably all are measured with the center hole not to exceed 200ma.
The labeling suggest the far left hole is only for measuring currents on the upper end of less than 10 amps.
Kennybobby also brings up a possibility of the wipers not making good contact. That might be something to check also.
HKJ has alot of good multimeter protection info in this thread.
http://budgetlightforum.com/node/66691

bikenber73
bikenber73's picture
Offline
Last seen: 13 hours 46 min ago
Joined: 11/12/2011 - 15:09
Posts: 2056
Location: Maryland USA

Has anyone checked the drain on the WildTrail BLF (D80) lights? I picked up mine last night and both were dead. I didn’t put them in the bag dead I am sure.

Thanks

Lexel
Lexel's picture
Offline
Last seen: 10 hours 33 min ago
Joined: 11/01/2016 - 08:00
Posts: 5815
Location: Germany
MascaratumB wrote:
moderator007 wrote:
I’m not sure, but it looks like your model does measure mico amps. It’s marked 2000u at about 7’oclock on the selector dail. That should be plenty good enough for parasitic drain measurements.

Please see if I am doing something wrong in the images below.
I am trying to measure on a Skilhunt M150 and on a Sofirn SF14.

You forget that uA current scale on a DMM has usually a high internal voltage drop in the DMM if some more current flows,
the flashlight may simply quit in LVP because your reading simply lets it see not enough battery voltage through while the MCU is booting up and draws a few mA for a very short time
a common way to avoid this is first short out the tail then let the MCU settle into sleep mode, then add the DMm probes and disconnect the bridge

or the DMM needs a minimum voltage to do the measurement at all

Usually the best method is to have a very high resolution and do the measurement in a larger mA or A region
your DMM is 2000 counts so it can display in 200mA range only down to 0.1mA and had a quite high error on small amounts due to the +/- digit and base accuracy

for example with my lab DMM I have a resolution in the 10A range of 1uA and in 400mA of 0.0001uA
of course the internal resistance will be very low at 10A and fairly low on 400mA so the voltage drop does not affect the light much

Another thing I noticed with Skilhunt lights is the short output spike when the battery is connected
This may even blow the low current range fuse in the DMM and of course you read then nothing

bikenber73 wrote:
Has anyone checked the drain on the WildTrail BLF (D80) lights? I picked up mine last night and both were dead. I didn’t put them in the bag dead I am sure.

Thanks

BLF D80 has no standby drain as the battery stays disconnected if switched off, if you get them out the drawer dead either the battery is faulty, your kids stole it and played until it went to LVP or you left them turned on by accident

even other BLF drivers with Anduril draw only like 30uA in sleep mode with no indicator LEDs connected

MascaratumB
MascaratumB's picture
Offline
Last seen: 3 hours 27 min ago
Joined: 10/29/2016 - 12:12
Posts: 4714
Location: Portugal

kennybobby wrote:
The big bare wire is the current sense shunt for the 10A range and it is certainly okay. It looks like your fuse is intact too? So no blown components.

My guess is that either the wipers of the rotary switch are not making a good contact to complete the circuit, or the Chip On Board (COB) controller is broken. You should be able to inspect the wipers to see if they contact or have a gap.

You should be able to read current with the left or center probe socket, the sensitivity and fusing is the only difference, but try the left with a known low-level current and then work your way on the settings.

moderator007 wrote:
I found a clearer pic of the labeling for the probe holes. The red center probe hole does look like it says ma with a 200ma fused. So I’m assuming that the 3 positions of 2000u, 20m, and 200m probably all are measured with the center hole not to exceed 200ma. The labeling suggest the far left hole is only for measuring currents on the upper end of less than 10 amps. Kennybobby also brings up a possibility of the wipers not making good contact. That might be something to check also. HKJ has alot of good multimeter protection info in this thread. http://budgetlightforum.com/node/66691

Well, as I am not familiar with the looks of the fuses, I am not sure. It doesn’t seem to be “blown”, it is not “dark” or anything like that. (Looking at the images provided by HKJ, it doesn’t seem to abnormal!)

Picking your suggestions I dismantled the MM again and checked those contacts. All seemed well.
However I picked a piece of kitchen paper and cleaned the board where the button rotates. Also, one of the metal spheres inside was not on its place (over the spring). I am not sure if it was me that took it out when pulling the round button or it if it was already out.

What happens now is that when using the RED probe on the left side (10A max / Unfused; Max 10 Sec each 15 min) I managed to get some readings on different lights. While using the RED probe in the middle (200mA; Fused) doesn’t get any reading in any of the settings.

So, using the probe on the left side, and on the different settings, the lights with tailclicky switches started to turn ON and a change modes (when I lift the probe up and down in the + contact).

On the Skilhunt M150, with the light OFF, there was no reading in any setting, so I clicked the switch to turn it ON and it started getting readings. I also locked it up with the switch blinking red, but I couldn’t get any reading of it.

In this specific case why do I have absence of a reading?
Due to the probe being on the left side?
Due to the MM screen/specs?
Due to a very low drain while locked?

At the same time, how can I read the other numbers?
Ex:
MM on setting “10”
Flashlight w/: 18650 cell (at 3.85V) + Lexel Driver w/ Bistro HD OTSM + 4 Luxeon V
Levels: Moonlight + ONE 7135 + Turbo
Readings: 0.00 > 035 > 3.90

Thanks again and sorry for so many questions Oops

[REVIEWS] ACEBEAM: H20 / TK16 /// AMUTORCH: S3 / S3 vs 219c / AM30 / AX1 / VG10 /// BLITZWOLF: BW-ET1 /// BRINYTE: T28 /// DQG: AA Slim Ti /// FIREFLIES: ROT66 GEN II /// HC-LIGHTS: SS AAA /// KLARUS: XT1C /// LIVARNOLUX: 314791 /// LUMINTOP: Tool AA V2.0 + Tool 25 /// NITEFOX: UT20 / ES10K / K3 /// ODEPRO: KL52 / B108 /// OLIGHT: M2R Warrior /// ON THE ROAD: M1 / i3 / M3 Pro /// ROVYVON: A2 + A5R / E300S / A8 /// SKILHUNT: M150 /// SOFIRN: SF14 + SP10A / SP32A / SP10B /// WUBEN: TO10R / E05 / T70 / E10 / TO50R / E19 /// XTAR: PB2 Charger ///

Tricks: 1 / 2 / 3 / 4 / 5 / 6 / 7 / 8 /// TIR Lenses: 1 / 2/// Others: Biscotti 3 + 1*7135 / Triple TIR w/ XP-G2 ///// My Collection ///// My Review's Blog (PT)

OL Contest 2019

GIVEAWAY: 1 / 2

Lexel
Lexel's picture
Offline
Last seen: 10 hours 33 min ago
Joined: 11/01/2016 - 08:00
Posts: 5815
Location: Germany

you should use your DMM to check the fuse

MascaratumB wrote:

Ex:
MM on setting “10”
Flashlight w/: 18650 cell (at 3.85V) + Lexel Driver w/ Bistro HD OTSM + 4 Luxeon V
Levels: Moonlight + ONE 7135 + Turbo
Readings: 0.00 > 035 > 3.90

Thanks again and sorry for so many questions Oops

My advise take the DMM and throw it as far as you can, walk 1 meter and try to pick it up at the distance you can trust it
then buy something a little more expensive tested by HKJ
https://lygte-info.dk/info/DMMReviews15.html all look bad, you cant trust UNI-T they cut internals in DMMs older are usually better then they save cost on same model number

any Bistro HD driver should draw 4-5mA in moon, you should be able to read that easily in 200mA range
3.9A the leads plus DMM reduce the current like crazy, Luxeon V x4 should draw more like 15-20A

kennybobby
kennybobby's picture
Offline
Last seen: 24 min ago
Joined: 05/10/2017 - 09:13
Posts: 180
Location: huntspatch, alabama

The fuse will have a tiny wire inside going from one end to the other—it could be the size of a hair so you might need a lens to see it. But if it has blown then the wire will be broken or melted.

If the flashlight or whatever is being measured has a high in-rush current during turn-on, then that could blow the fuse. These sort of nuisance blows are common until you get experienced with measuring current and how to avoid such situations. So buy a pack of 5 fuses to have some spares.

In a pinch, you could use a piece of aluminum foil wrapped around the fuse to make an emergency repair. But understand that you will have no protection against an accidental over-current. But if you had a known low current situation then you could use this trick to make a measurement to prove that your meter is functionally okay. This is an advanced trick that i can’t really explain, someone would need to show you how to do this, and it could really damage your meter if the current was too high for the range setting. If you have any breadboard resistors then you could make a test circuit with limited current and this would be a safer way to check the meter. Good Luck, and avoid the copper (Cu)

Pages