The Problem with Wavien Collars--Lack of Focus

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kennybobby
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The Problem with Wavien Collars--Lack of Focus


Gobo

MeadowStar Enterprises bought out Wavien and Kenneth Li’s (the inventor engineer) patents.
Wavien, Inc. Demonstrates a One Million Candle Power LED Flashlight at InfoComm, June 2012
https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/wavien-inc-demonstrates-a-one-m...

So who is MeadowStar? Their website lists 3 primary product areas: 
Grow lights for plants, Recycled Light Technology RLT (collars), and Non-Lethal Optical Disrupters (Military Stun Lights) [hideous]

Contacts:
Corporate office in NY at
1900 Hempstead Turnpike, Suite 300
East Meadow, NY 11554

Engineering in Arizona at
1300 S Litchfield Road, Building 260
Goodyear, AZ 85338

Research about this company:

Meadowstar Enterprises, Ltd. is an Arizona Profit filed on August 9, 2016. The company’s filing status is listed as Good Standing and its File Number is F20564166.

The Registered Agent on file for this company is Loren Hoboy and is located at 2334 N 112th Ave, Avondale, AZ 85392. The company’s principal address is 1300 S Litchfield Rd Bldg #5, Goodyear, AZ 85338. This appears to be in an industrial park near the airport.

The company has 6 principals on record, all have the same NY address as Corporate, except Loren in AZ.
Aj Yarmie from East Meadow NY, Director and Vice-President
Jane Marks from East Meadow NY, Secretary
John Frayler from East Meadow NY, Director
Loren Hoboy from Goodyear AZ, Director and Vice-President
Michael Ostrow from East Meadow NY, Director and President
Neil Choplin from East Meadow NY, Director

What is the Corporate Office?
That is the address of the Lawyer’s office, Richard Diamond, with 1 negative review on yelp. He would likely be the patent enforcer if any infringements were to occur.

What else is Michael doing? He is in many industries and is CEO of the following:

Insurance
Centricomm, Inc. is a New York Domestic Business Corporation filed on April 5, 2000. The company’s filing status is listed as Active and its File Number is 2495334.
The Registered Agent on file for this company is Centricomm, Inc. and is located at 1900 Hempstead Tpke Ste 300, East Meadow, NY 11554. The company’s principal address is 1900 Hempstead Tpke Suite 300, East Meadow, NY 11554 and its mailing address is 1900 Hempstead Tpke Ste 300, East Meadow, NY 11554.
The company has 1 principal on record. The principal is Michael Ostrow from East Meadow NY.

Marketing
Centricomm Marketing, Inc. is a New York Domestic Business Corporation filed on February 28, 2003. The company’s filing status is listed as Active and its File Number is 2875526.
The Registered Agent on file for this company is Centricomm Marketing, Inc. and is located at 1900 Hempstead Tpke Ste 300, East Meadow, NY 11554. The company’s principal address is 1900 Hempstead Tpke Ste 300, East Meadow, NY 11554 and its mailing address is 1900 Hempstead Tpke Ste 300, East Meadow, NY 11554.
The company has 1 principal on record. The principal is Michael Ostrow from East Meadow NY

Non-Profit
Concerned Citizens Of Rhinebeck/rhinecliff, Inc. was founded in 2009. Concerned Citizens Of Rhinebeck/rhinecliff, Inc. specializes in Individual And Family Services. Concerned Citizens Of Rhinebeck/rhinecliff, Inc. has 2 employees and estimated revenues of $79,000.00.
Address: 150 Morton Rd, Rhinebeck, NY (use Zillow to get size and value details)

Management
Lucky Star Management Corp. is a New York Domestic Business Corporation filed on July 31, 2013. The company’s filing status is listed as Active.
The Registered Agent on file for this company is Lucky Star Management Corp. and is located at 153 Shadblow Lane, Clinton Corners, NY 12514. The company’s principal address is 4312 Albany Post Road, Hyde Park, NY 12538 and its mailing address is 35-02 Northern Blvd, Long Island City, NY.
The company has 1 principal on record. The principal is Michael Ostrow from Rhinebeck NY.

Business Services
Meadowstar, Inc., is a Florida Domestic Profit Corporation filed on February 20, 2003. The company’s filing status is listed as Inactive.
The Registered Agent on file for this company is Levitt Bruce E and is located at 442 129th Ave, Madeira Beach, FL 33708. The company’s principal address is 442 129th Ave, Madeira Beach, FL 33708 and its mailing address is 442 129th Ave, Madeira Beach, FL 33708.
The company has 2 principals on record. The principals are Bruce E Levitt from Madeira Beach FL and Michael Ostrow from E. Meadow NY.

Medical Health Care Plans (Insurance)
Meadowstar Enterprises Ltd through its subsidiary is engaged in designing & producing health care plans including; Physicians facilities, 24-hour nurse helpline, dental plan, chiropractic care, Vision care & prescription drug plan.
Listed on the Grey OTC market: https://www.equities.com/companies/meld
The address is 1900 Hempstead.s300.E Meadow.NY.

Ostrow Self LLC

Pizza Energy Savers Inc.

Physical Therapy Alexander Technique LLC.

Senior Life Planning Group, Ltd.

There is probably even more but i don’t have the time to find them all.

The point is— with all his empires he is TOO BUSY TO FOCUS or likely care about the RLT products, whether they get built or sold.

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Edited by: kennybobby on 04/06/2020 - 00:13
grin
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That is the corporate world without getting into conspiracy theories. It is a tangled web designed to deceive. When you start experimenting with them you not the coating but the way they focus the patient doesnt really matter. It isnt recycled light technology it is just using reflectors to condense light anyone can do this. Then you find out some clown trying to say you cant because they thought of forcusing a reflector first. Well i brought a marinebeam to see how they work and I think the TLF members are way ahead with condensing light.

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I came here to take a peek and learn something about focusing light recycling collars, but this is very different from what at first I imagined.

kennybobby wrote:

https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/wavien-inc-demonstrates-a-one-million-candle-power-led-flashlight-at-infocomm-158856565.html

Intellectual property protection and patents stink. Had to say.

grin wrote:
That is the corporate world without getting into conspiracy theories. …

Conspiracy theories? The more unconscious lads may laugh at this, serving as batteries of the matrix, unconsciously watching the news, blindly listening to the powers that be and letting his minds being programmed badly. Others, more conscious, ponder it, seeing that certain stuff just doesn't makes sense, being of no service to one and all. But they ain't theories, they are real. It's only that those in power are too scared to reveal the truth. And it's understandable, there's a lot of people not yet ready, and they may be carrying quite a bit of guilt. Fortunately, more and more people is awakening to believe in the highest and best good.

One of those TV programs worth watching is that of Giorgio Tsoukalos, the aliens guy. Wink

 Someone was speaking of collars in a related thread or two recently (namely here and also there).

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debrafrancis
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Thanks, I give it a go to figure it out.

.

likevvii
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If anyone is down,
I have spent tens of hours to get mfg quotes in China and some resources to do patent checking for my own fun.
Look closely and you will see the patent claims only if the entire system is sold as a completed system of: collar + led array + driver

One interesting note, the “LED array” section of this patent is not even a single LED, it is an array of 4 LEDs. So that means if you sell an entire system with 1 LED, it will still be fine.
If you just sell a “spherical mirror with a hole in it” they will have absolutely zero case against you.
They had to probably change from 1 LED to an array of 4 or more LEDs to get the patent check to pass or else the patent would be considered as inhibiting innovation and not specific enough.

But in addition, if you stay low and be a huge annoyance in denying everything and just want to pump out 1000~2000 collars into the world, the decided compensation for damages wouldn’t even be close to the lawyer costs. Lawyers don’t do things because they want to. They do it to make money.

Fully 60/40 polished, dielectric 98% cold mirror coated (cold mirror = reflect VIS wavelengths, pass IR to not reflect back heat)
Mold cost 1000usd
5usd each, 250pcs.

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likevvii wrote:
If anyone is down,
I have spent tens of hours to get mfg quotes in China and some resources to do patent checking for my own fun.
Look closely and you will see the patent claims only if the entire system is sold as a completed system of: collar + led array + driver

One interesting note, the “LED array” section of this patent is not even a single LED, it is an array of 4 LEDs. So that means if you sell an entire system with 1 LED, it will still be fine.
If you just sell a “spherical mirror with a hole in it” they will have absolutely zero case against you.
They had to probably change from 1 LED to an array of 4 or more LEDs to get the patent check to pass or else the patent would be considered as inhibiting innovation and not specific enough.

But in addition, if you stay low and be a huge annoyance in denying everything and just want to pump out 1000~2000 collars into the world, the decided compensation for damages wouldn’t even be close to the lawyer costs. Lawyers don’t do things because they want to. They do it to make money.

Fully 60/40 polished, dielectric 98% cold mirror coated (cold mirror = reflect VIS wavelengths, pass IR to not reflect back heat)
Mold cost 1000usd
5usd each, 250pcs.

That is very interesting!

So the unit price would be $9 for each collar if made in a batch of 250?

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It just does not appear legal for anyone to get a patent on a reflector. I think the patent office screwed this one up. The Wavien Collar name itself is ridiculous. I thought a single part with a patent had to be very specific in size and shape, so another one proportionally shaped but a different size, would not be a patent infringement.
.
I think ‘likevvii’ is correct saying “ But in addition, if you stay low and be a huge annoyance in denying everything and just want to pump out 1000~2000 collars into the world, the decided compensation for damages wouldn’t even be close to the lawyer costs. Lawyers don’t do things because they want to. They do it to make money. “
.
For us wanting one for flashlight fun, we will have to find a way to machine it from aluminum, polish it, and mirror coat it. It is none of their dam business if we are not profiting or copping an exact shape.
.
Sorry for venting, Wavien name annoys me.
.

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CNCman wrote:
For us wanting one for flashlight fun, we will have to find a way to machine it from aluminum, polish it, and mirror coat it. It is none of their dam business if we are not profiting or copping an exact shape.

That would reflect IR. The Waviens are made from glass, right? Maybe not important, don’t know.

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likevvii wrote:
If anyone is down, …

Fully 60/40 polished, dielectric 98% cold mirror coated (cold mirror = reflect VIS wavelengths, pass IR to not reflect back heat)
Mold cost 1000usd
5usd each, 250pcs.

i’d be in for $100, but check grin’s thread first— i think he found a source and bought a lens already.

if it is not coated with the preferred IR material it could be removed and redone, but how much difference would it really make to experimenters such as on BLF.

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grin
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I have been cutting them from aluminium with round nose router bit and polishing them. Now I am looking at a way to coat them does anyone know what the coating is?

likevvii
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Based on my tests, IR pass through is not very necessary, if I had to take a guess, it would help performance only by a little.

Most HR(high reflective) coating 98%+ have a design wavelength where it reflects very well and transmits most of the rest so it is technically a bonus feature anyways whether you want it or not.

The precision has to be extreme for good recycling performance. I’m afraid it is not possible to have good results from CNC machining. Another option is plastic molding flashlight reflectors which is 1000usd mold 1usd unit cost. Both these designs lack in surface accuracy performance.
Last thing to consider, the coating limitations, only able to reach 92% HR with enhanced aluminum coating. Polished or chrome cost is down in the 60-70% HR
With high reflectivity in IR area

grin
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I am basicly cutting them with a profile. They focus a sharp image of the die like the original. I just need to work out what is in the coating and how to apply it. Maybe I should send you one to test.

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grin wrote:
I have been cutting them from aluminium with round nose router bit and polishing them. Now I am looking at a way to coat them does anyone know what the coating is?

.
.
I’m searching for a front mirror coating also, found this one for glass, it might work on aluminum. Just need to learn the process, not buy the kit, its expensive.
.
https://angelgilding.com/pump-spray-silver-kit.html?redirect_log_mongo_i...
.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MoK4s-MFo4I
.

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likevvii wrote:
… The precision has to be extreme for good recycling performance. I’m afraid it is not possible to have good results from CNC machining.

What is the issue with CNC—surface finish or profile? i might be able to get one cut on the diamond turning lathe in aluminum, usually we can get down to ≤100Å rms surface finish and prescription profiles to 100nm. Electroless nickel and gold coating tanks. What is the IR response with a gold surface coating?

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grin
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Gold will block out the lower wavelengths and reflect the higher like IR

likevvii
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kennybobby wrote:
likevvii wrote:
… The precision has to be extreme for good recycling performance. I’m afraid it is not possible to have good results from CNC machining.

What is the issue with CNC—surface finish or profile? i might be able to get one cut on the diamond turning lathe in aluminum, usually we can get down to ≤100Å rms surface finish and prescription profiles to 100nm. Electroless nickel and gold coating tanks. What is the IR response with a gold surface coating?

I apologize, It is just my intuition based on the reasonable resources available. CNC machined would be exceptional because you can bake in a mounting bracket all in one.
General purpose CNC machines can not reach the accuracy so you will need special equipment.

Not sure what gold does for IR, but the 450nm reflectivity is extremely important for the purpose of recycling. Very high intensity LEDs output a high amount of 450nm which is important to be recycled. I estimate the +100% efficiency that comes from a collar, 40% is from recycling the blue spike and 60% is from the rest of the wavelengths.

I had tried to resin print collars and polish with a steel ball and planned to send them to China flashlight company for 94% HR coating. But I was never able to get a good spherical accuracy!

I was looking for the optimal aperture (opening hole size) for a collar and with the help of Enderman, he explained the emitting angles of a light source on a plane.
The balance of lumens vs die intensity. A collar has an efficency of 33%. Anything captured would result in a 33% return. 100lm captured = +33lm out of the hole

Wavien uses a 60 deg aperture. I was planning to produce an 80deg aperture to match the common 75mm diameter, 40mm BFL aspheric lens sold by edmund/thorlabs/china.

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kennybobby wrote:
likevvii wrote:
… The precision has to be extreme for good recycling performance. I’m afraid it is not possible to have good results from CNC machining.

What is the issue with CNC—surface finish or profile? i might be able to get one cut on the diamond turning lathe in aluminum, usually we can get down to ≤100Å rms surface finish and prescription profiles to 100nm. Electroless nickel and gold coating tanks. What is the IR response with a gold surface coating?


.
Most people are unaware of the Special Precision CNC Machines like the ones you work with. Wink
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kennybobby. From a previous life I remember a number of tech companies in NM that specialized in laser optical coating. They could put any coating on almost any substrate, and do so with exquisite accuracy. It may be that somewhere in that sector a company could be found to coat wavien style reflectors. Laser spec wouldn’t be necessary for a flashlight so maybe it could be done inexpensively. I’ll look around for some old “laser Focus” magazines. There will be ads in there for those companies. Problem is, they would run for cover if they thought there was patent infringement. I’d love to have a 2000 lumen wavien thrower. The candela would be outrageous.

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Fellows, could you please stop making wavien propaganda? It is not even easier to say “wavien” versus “RLT” collar. And now that I'm here, why RLT? The devices are Light Recycling Collars, and we are speaking of Light Recycling Technology, isn't it?

Wavien just did the opportunist with this stuff, a stuff long ago developed anyway. Simple as that.

LRT collars in fact do not properly work with nowadays common blue pumped leds, this is because the recycled light which comes back to the led emitter substrate and re-excites it for light to be radiated again, faces the problem that the phosphor coating isn't designed to emit the whole desired spectrum, only a fraction of it as it converts part of the blue pump radiation into longer wavelenght frequencies. As a result, both good tint and high CRI are completely destroyed in a common blue pump white led aspheric + collar thrower. Facepalm 

Here is a brief related article: Is it time to say goodbye to blue-pump LEDs? @ LEDs Magazine

With a proper UV pump, whole substrate emitted spectrum led an aspheric + collar thrower would work a lot better. Collars were in fact used in lamps with other proper emitters long ago. 

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They are actually a hemispherical reflector. My opionion is (and I am happy to be proven wrong) is that they do a couple of things first they redirect the spill of course. As pointed out above they have an aperture this is important because the lens has to match the aperture for the max gain.