[ lume1 for FW3A/C/T - Constant Current Buck Boost + FET Driver with Anduril ] - Now in Production

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loneoceans
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JaredM wrote:
Good point Scallywag. Component quality should be maintained.

Yes, Lumintop did mention that the BOM cost was higher than preferred, which is understandable. They also have a business to run, so it makes sense for them to use the lowest cost components. 

The Lume1 driver was designed with quality and performance first, and cost as a secondary priority (though I also tried to keep the cost as low as would meet the requirements I had set). I communicated to Neal and Lumintop that this driver will be more expensive, but I think will still be popular as an upgrade option over the stock driver, and people would be happy to pay a slight premium for better quality.

In addition, I highly suggested to them to use the specific components specified in my BOM, and highlighted the critical components that should not be swapped out. All these are still in discussion, but it's very useful to know that people are willing to pay a little more for a higher quality product! If members here let Neal that they are willing to pay a little more, than these cost concerns can be mitigated.

Thanks everyone for your support again! 

www.loneoceans.com/labs/

lume1 - Constant Current BuckBoost + FET Anduril Driver for FW3x
High Power Boost Drivers - GXB100 100W GAN FET Driver // GXB172 50W 17mm Driver
GXF22 - CC+FET for Emisar D4 // GFS16 - 1milliOhm FET Switch System // Older: GXB17 & GXB20

Firelight2
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I’m willing to pay more to get high-quality components on this driver.

JaredM
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IMO, there isn’t much of a point to spend say $12 on a driver that I don’t need and has cut-corners vs paying what $18 and getting what it was supposed to be.

This is a premium product designed solely to be as efficient and reliable as possible.

Want a cheap FWxx driver that works okay? Use the stock one, I say!

skinny_tie
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loneoceans wrote:
In addition, I highly suggested to them to use the specific components specified in my BOM, and highlighted the critical components that should not be swapped out. All these are still in discussion, but it’s very useful to know that people are willing to pay a little more for a higher quality product! If members here let Neal that they are willing to pay a little more, than these cost concerns can be mitigated.

Thanks everyone for your support again! 

JaredM wrote:
IMO, there isn’t much of a point to spend say $12 on a driver that I don’t need and has cut-corners vs paying what $18 and getting what it was supposed to be.

I totally agree with this sentiment.

While I’m glad that Lumintop building the driver might mean it’s available to purchase beyond the initial group buy, I think we’ll have to watch out for them starting to cut corners after the initial batch.

Danthemanz
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Subscribed now the list is moot.

Certainly hope it doesn’t cheap out, it’s not like the stock driver is bad, it’s just not as efficient as it could be. I want the best it can be!
Very keen to get these putting out less heat, the heat that comes off a fresh cell is insane and unnecessary.

Theres also most no limit to the amount of lights I would be willing to pay a premium for for a proper switching driver.

Now if Neal would just respond or ship out my last order I’d be happy.

Any idea of a rough time frame for these?
6 weeks? 6 months? 6 years?

Is there also any chance an arrangement could be organised whereby the original interest list get first dibs on batch 1?
Would suck to lose out to the public after all of this.

loneoceans
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Danthemanz wrote:
Subscribed now the list is moot. Certainly hope it doesn't cheap out, it's not like the stock driver is bad, it's just not as efficient as it could be. I want the best it can be! Very keen to get these putting out less heat, the heat that comes off a fresh cell is insane and unnecessary. Theres also most no limit to the amount of lights I would be willing to pay a premium for for a proper switching driver. Now if Neal would just respond or ship out my last order I'd be happy. Any idea of a rough time frame for these? 6 weeks? 6 months? 6 years? Is there also any chance an arrangement could be organised whereby the original interest list get first dibs on batch 1? Would suck to lose out to the public after all of this.

 

Thanks everyone with the support. I'll continue to reiterate to Neal that using the proper designated components for the driver even at a slightly higher cost is much preferred over cutting corners.

For the rough time frame, I don't have specific dates myself yet and will post updates as soon as I receive them from Neal or Lumintop. However, Neal has conveyed to me that the drivers are indeed in production at the PCB factory, and the first batch will be done in a week or two at least. The initial idea Neal has is to incorporate these drivers in the new special-edition FW3 flashlights (Mokume and Damast metal versions), and to also sell the drivers standalone. So I'm expecting the timeline to be more like 2-4 weeks instead of months. I am just as anxious as you are in getting these drivers produced! I'll convey to Neal about the original interest list, but I'm pretty sure the number of drivers produced will exceed the total number reflected in the interest list since greater production quantity = lower cost.

www.loneoceans.com/labs/

lume1 - Constant Current BuckBoost + FET Anduril Driver for FW3x
High Power Boost Drivers - GXB100 100W GAN FET Driver // GXB172 50W 17mm Driver
GXF22 - CC+FET for Emisar D4 // GFS16 - 1milliOhm FET Switch System // Older: GXB17 & GXB20

Scallywag
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JaredM wrote:
IMO, there isn’t much of a point to spend say $12 on a driver that I don’t need and has cut-corners vs paying what $18 and getting what it was supposed to be.

This is a premium product designed solely to be as efficient and reliable as possible.

Want a cheap FWxx driver that works okay? Use the stock one, I say!


I can’t say it better so I’ll quote it.

ZL SC62(w) | Jaxman E2L XP-G2 5A | Purple S2+ XPL-HI U6-3A | D4 w/ Luxeon V | RRT-01 | Purple FW3A, 4000K SST20 | Baton S1
Boruit D10 w/ Quadrupel Fet+1/Anduril | EagTac D25C Ti | DQG Slim AA Ti | Jaxman E3 | UF-T1 by CRX | Olight S15 Ti | Nitecore EX11.2
L6 XHP70.2 P2 4000K FET+7135 | Jaxman M8 | MF02 | Jaxman Z1 CULNM1.TG | Blue S2+ w/ ML Special | Thrunite T10Tv2
Supfire M6 3xXHP50.2, Sofirn C8F, Unfinished: Sofirn SP70, IYP07/Tool AAA hot-rods, Jetbeam E3S
Others: Nitecore EC23 | Nebo Twyst | Streamlight ProTac 1AA | TerraLux LightStar 100

Firelight2
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Scallywag wrote:
JaredM wrote:
IMO, there isn’t much of a point to spend say $12 on a driver that I don’t need and has cut-corners vs paying what $18 and getting what it was supposed to be.

This is a premium product designed solely to be as efficient and reliable as possible.

Want a cheap FWxx driver that works okay? Use the stock one, I say!


I can’t say it better so I’ll quote it.

This. Anyone going for a premium upgrade component like this will want premium components on it and is willing to spend a few extra $ to make that happen.
Tldd
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That’s great to hear that your design’s going into mass production. Be proud of it!

Can’t wait till I can get my hands on one.

pol77
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I am going to get a few of these drivers with RGB boards to replace in all my FW3A lights, ONLY if they are produced with the matterials proposed by the designer. No cut corners for me please.

zak.wilson
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I have little faith that Neal and Lumintop won’t value engineer this into a lower-quality product eventually. I guess I’d best get mine early.

But to echo what’s been said, I’m content with a higher price if it means the components will be high-quality and consistent over time. I’d have been happy to pay more for my FW3A if it was better-made as well, and kind of wish the project hadn’t been trying for a $30 price point.

If anybody involved in the business side of things is reading this thread, know that the availability of this driver will cause me to buy an FW1A, and possibly more FW series lights.

Ceilingbounce – flashlight testing and runtime graphs for Android

thisnameisvalid
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In for 1

Edit: just noticed the update Facepalm

Looking forward to when theyre available Big Smile

iamlucky13
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zak.wilson wrote:
I have little faith that Neal and Lumintop won’t value engineer this into a lower-quality product eventually. I guess I’d best get mine early.

But to echo what’s been said, I’m content with a higher price if it means the components will be high-quality and consistent over time. I’d have been happy to pay more for my FW3A if it was better-made as well, and kind of wish the project hadn’t been trying for a $30 price point.

If anybody involved in the business side of things is reading this thread, know that the availability of this driver will cause me to buy an FW1A, and possibly more FW series lights.

How much cost could we possibly be talking about? Decent FETs are around $1 in low quantities. In bulk, there can’t be more than pennies to save there.

I know integrated boost modules are more complex, and this will be one of the critical components of this driver, but even the big one I see in the GXB172 parts list is $2 in moderate quantities.

I doubt there’s a single person interested in this driver, much less a premium light like an FW3exotic, who wants the efficiency of a boost-buck driver over a linear driver, but would trade 5 percentage points of efficiency for $1-2 in cost savings.

Basically, this driver should be popular if it is well made, but if it doesn’t have the same performance as the prototype because the manufacturer tried to save a buck by substituting parts, it will ruin the business case.

contactcr
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Pretty sure I read in one of Lexel’s thread the FET was changed in the FW3A after only the first batch or two. People can change components for reasons other than cost as well. I agree with zak’s sentiment. Assuming they even get the first version right it’s probably going to be the most authentic one.

Scallywag
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zak.wilson wrote:
I have little faith that Neal and Lumintop won’t value engineer this into a lower-quality product eventually. I guess I’d best get mine early.

But to echo what’s been said, I’m content with a higher price if it means the components will be high-quality and consistent over time. I’d have been happy to pay more for my FW3A if it was better-made as well, and kind of wish the project hadn’t been trying for a $30 price point.

If anybody involved in the business side of things is reading this thread, know that the availability of this driver will cause me to buy an FW1A, and possibly more FW series lights.


Good point. I would probably really like this driver with a single emitter… Especially something with low Vf. Where’d I put those Luxeon Vs…

ZL SC62(w) | Jaxman E2L XP-G2 5A | Purple S2+ XPL-HI U6-3A | D4 w/ Luxeon V | RRT-01 | Purple FW3A, 4000K SST20 | Baton S1
Boruit D10 w/ Quadrupel Fet+1/Anduril | EagTac D25C Ti | DQG Slim AA Ti | Jaxman E3 | UF-T1 by CRX | Olight S15 Ti | Nitecore EX11.2
L6 XHP70.2 P2 4000K FET+7135 | Jaxman M8 | MF02 | Jaxman Z1 CULNM1.TG | Blue S2+ w/ ML Special | Thrunite T10Tv2
Supfire M6 3xXHP50.2, Sofirn C8F, Unfinished: Sofirn SP70, IYP07/Tool AAA hot-rods, Jetbeam E3S
Others: Nitecore EC23 | Nebo Twyst | Streamlight ProTac 1AA | TerraLux LightStar 100

Quadrupel
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Boost for nothing… driver is for 3v LED

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Quadrupel wrote:
Boost for nothing… driver is for 3v LED
My recollection is a good buck-boost driver is still more efficient than a linear driver for intermediate and low modes. Turbo should have the same efficiency.

A boost driver to enable use of higher voltage emitters in the FW3A would be pointless. 20mm direct copper triple stars for larger than XP footprint don’t exist. And even if they did, 20mm optics for larger emitters also don’t exist. It probably wouldn’t be too hard to get a custom star made, but making a custom optic is a whole other deal.

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Quadrupel wrote:
Boost for nothing… driver is for 3v LED

Exactly, boost when the Vin is 4.2V and LED is 2.8Vf or 3Vf.

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The driver still has high resistance in direct drive, right?

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Firelight2 wrote:
Quadrupel wrote:
Boost for nothing… driver is for 3v LED
My recollection is a good buck-boost driver is still more efficient than a linear driver for intermediate and low modes. Turbo should have the same efficiency.

A boost driver to enable use of higher voltage emitters in the FW3A would be pointless. 20mm direct copper triple stars for larger than XP footprint don’t exist. And even if they did, 20mm optics for larger emitters also don’t exist. It probably wouldn’t be too hard to get a custom star made, but making a custom optic is a whole other deal.

You have a point, but it basically already exists (4x XHP35):

http://www.acebeam.com/ec65

9V triple is more interesting to me but no one else seems to want it (besides LUX-RC drivers) and boards would have to be remade or old Noctigons brought back from the dead

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Firelight2 wrote:
Quadrupel wrote:
Boost for nothing… driver is for 3v LED
My recollection is a good buck-boost driver is still more efficient than a linear driver for intermediate and low modes. Turbo should have the same efficiency.

A boost driver to enable use of higher voltage emitters in the FW3A would be pointless. 20mm direct copper triple stars for larger than XP footprint don’t exist. And even if they did, 20mm optics for larger emitters also don’t exist. It probably wouldn’t be too hard to get a custom star made, but making a custom optic is a whole other deal.

I think the point being raised is not about the efficiency, but about regulation.

In basic theory, a good buck driver can maintain regulation until the battery voltage drops to the forward voltage. In practice, I’m not sure it tends to work out quite as expected. Also, while a forward voltage around 2.9V may be common at an LED’s standard rated current, at 3A, the forward voltage rises to typically 3.2 to 3.4V depending on the LED (the 219C is known for having a low forward voltage. The XP-L HI tends a little higher). So even with a perfectly performing buck driver, you could fall out of regulation with 1/3 of the battery charge left.

As far as efficiency, a lot of current generation LED’s have a forward voltage around 2.9V at rated current. For a battery that averages 3.7V throughout the discharge, that should yield 78% driver efficiency. Loneoceans report 93% efficiency from his driver. Of course, linear drive efficiency improves at higher currents due to the higher forward voltage, but LED efficiency decreases, so there is a net decrease in overall efficiency.buck-boost driver over a 95% efficient buck driver, and definitely over a 78% efficient linear driver.

That said, as I understand it, boost-buck circuits tend to make a small efficiency compromise compared to buck-only circuits.

id30209
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And i’m reading only bla bla bla

The best BLF driver version is comin’ and i’m sure as hell buying many for other hosts i have

WTB Titanium 4sevens 2xAA tube

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Hello,

the moon mode is important to me and is used often.

The moon mode at the driver is higher than the output of the stock driver. But you wrote, it is possible to reduce this even further. Do you mean by software (me) or hardware (you)?

Thank you.

pol77
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I second the request for the lowest possible moon mode, one way or another.

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pol77 wrote:
I second the request for the lowest possible moon mode, one way or another.

Thirded.

ZL SC62(w) | Jaxman E2L XP-G2 5A | Purple S2+ XPL-HI U6-3A | D4 w/ Luxeon V | RRT-01 | Purple FW3A, 4000K SST20 | Baton S1
Boruit D10 w/ Quadrupel Fet+1/Anduril | EagTac D25C Ti | DQG Slim AA Ti | Jaxman E3 | UF-T1 by CRX | Olight S15 Ti | Nitecore EX11.2
L6 XHP70.2 P2 4000K FET+7135 | Jaxman M8 | MF02 | Jaxman Z1 CULNM1.TG | Blue S2+ w/ ML Special | Thrunite T10Tv2
Supfire M6 3xXHP50.2, Sofirn C8F, Unfinished: Sofirn SP70, IYP07/Tool AAA hot-rods, Jetbeam E3S
Others: Nitecore EC23 | Nebo Twyst | Streamlight ProTac 1AA | TerraLux LightStar 100

grin
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I will buy at least 10 straight up

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Thanks everyone for the great feedback so far, and thanks everyone for your patience.

Just a quick update - the first batch of Lume1-FW3X drivers have been produced. I am arranging to getting some shipped to me so I can validate the build. 

More to come soon!

 

In addition, a lot of people have asked about Aux boards. Neal has produced some RGB AUX boards. 

https://imgur.com/po5GYL3
Here's a very quick image of what Neal sent over. Tweaking of resistor values in progress for LED brightness. I do not know what his plans are for AUX boards but I see no reason why they cannot be offered for sale as well. Please excuse the odd effects from video to gif conversion.

 

Hikelite wrote:
Quadrupel wrote:
Boost for nothing... driver is for 3v LED
Exactly, boost when the Vin is 4.2V and LED is 2.8Vf or 3Vf.

It depends. The driver is running in Buck mode for most of the battery discharge curve. In fact, it is possible (though unrealistic) to have scenarios whereby the driver never runs into boost mode, for example if extremely low V_fwd LEDs are used (e.g. 2.8V), and when the cut-off voltage is set to be say around 2.9V. However, in the real world, nearer the lower end of the battery discharge curve, boost mode is typically very helpful. In your regular AMC7135 drivers, you'll notice that the LED output starts to drop significantly at the lower end of the curve especially due to the drop-out voltage of those regulators.

For example, at say a 2A drive, your LED may have a V_fwd of about 3.2V. With DCR losses in the wires, the driver needs to supply even higher than that, perhaps 3.25V. Then, you have to add the 120mV dropout voltage, and more DCR losses from the battery conduction path. So the cell voltage under load needs to be closer to 3.4 to 3.5V. Once the cell voltage drops below that, the driver falls out of regulation at the intended current. In the same scenario, the Lume1 driver continues to drive the LED at the actual set current even when battery voltage drops below 3V at the cell level, or during low temperatures (e.g. I noticed the Panasonic INR cells tend to drop in voltage much more when cold, compared to say a high drain 30Q). The Lume1 datasheet explains this in more detail. I'm not saying that this is a necessary design element - it's just a feature I wanted to have when I made the Lume1 driver.

I could also design a buck-only driver. With a 100%-duty-capable design, it's still possible to achieve excellent performance and efficiency over a standard linear driver, just that such a driver would begin to fall out of regulation once the battery is drained. If that behavior is accepted (which I think, generally should be OK since people do expect their flashlights to get dimmer as the battery is drained), then there's no issue with a buck-only driver. Hope that makes sense. 

www.loneoceans.com/labs/

lume1 - Constant Current BuckBoost + FET Anduril Driver for FW3x
High Power Boost Drivers - GXB100 100W GAN FET Driver // GXB172 50W 17mm Driver
GXF22 - CC+FET for Emisar D4 // GFS16 - 1milliOhm FET Switch System // Older: GXB17 & GXB20

JaredM
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loneoceans wrote:

Thanks everyone for the great feedback so far, and thanks everyone for your patience.


Just a quick update – the first batch of Lume1-FW3X drivers have been produced. I am arranging to getting some shipped to me so I can validate the build.


More to come soon!

Party
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loneoceans, i don’t believe , i need schematics to replicate the process Big Smile

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Am I correct that the google sheets is now moot? Is there a way to get added to the google sheets so I can get notified when these become available? Just started getting into flashlights, and really excited about this!

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