Would you purchase a 14500 version FW1A "mini" if it existed?

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JaredM
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Yajiamei also has 17*9.7mm 5050 TIRs in a wide variety of angles.

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It looks like each of the optics in the Carclo triple used for the FW3A is 10mm. So using the Carclo 10mm would be like using one of those. Using one of these just feels right for this, but I don’t know how that square shape of the optic holder combined with the presumably larger circular opening would play out. Maybe I’ll order one of these and stick it in an FW1A with a FW3A bezel. Think that’s worth doing? Which one should I order: https://www.ledsupply.com/10mm-carclo-led-optics
Probably medium spot or frosted medium spot? The narrow spot cd/lm looks pretty throwy for a general use light. Or maybe I should just get all 3. If anyone else already knows this wouldn’t work well, I’d also appreciate that info :).

MascaratumB
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JaredM wrote:

I could possibly deliver this CAD design by the end of June. Got a lot of things happening though with a new house and work for the next 3-4 weeks. I think a reasonable expectation for this light would be 20mm x 85mm. 14500 saves 15mm, but single optic will add some. A proper deep pocket clip will be a top priority for the design as well.

Looking at the proposal, I would just say that the 20mm diameter would be too thick. My opinion, of course!
Looking at the Tool AA V2.0, it measures 89.1mm x 18.5mm. I find that thickness ideal for an EDC light. I believe Eagletac has one that is similar to this one.
Making it 20mm seems to large.

About length, 85mm would be nice, but I guess we can save some more space too, maybe 2 or 3 mm (optimizing the tailswitch and the pill).
Don’t ask me how to do it, though, as I am no expert Big Smile And thanks for your effort in advance too Wink

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if you make FW1A ti, i will take this Big Smile

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The more I’ve thought about this over the last few weeks, the more I’ve realised I would buy a couple.

I live the Tool AA 2.0, but I love my fw3a and Fw1a lights much more.
While I like a smaller single led light, the driver, both button, firmware and power just can’t be beaten from the FWxA lights.
I’ve collected so many of them now, all for different LEDs, tube sizes, I would love one that’s 4mm thinner.
My favourite size is 18500, so the height would be similar and amazing for a 219b mod for around the house.

I’d be very happy if this happened!

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well, aparently there is an Anduril option for 14500 (no AA)
http://budgetlightforum.com/comment/1663870#comment-1663870

Sari33
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jon_slider wrote:
My wishlist

tailswitch
screw on or fully captive ring clip
AA compatible
Single High CRI LED
capable of Firefly 0.01 lumens

Not sure we need a new light, maybe just a new driver to fit existing AA lights..

imagine the number of AA Tools out there, that could be enhanced with an AA capable Anduril driver..
DreamTime.. LOL

There isn’t triple optic for made FW3A 14500/AA with E21A?

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Sari33 wrote:
jon_slider wrote:
Single High CRI LED

There isn’t triple optic for made FW3A 14500/AA with E21A?

There really wouldn’t be much point in making it a triple.

A single LED is almost always preferable unless there are specific reasons to use more. Like, if one LED can only make 1000 lumens and you want to make 3000 or 4000, and don’t mind sacrificing throw, and are using a battery powerful enough to power it, that would be a reason to use more than one. Or if it’s a lantern which needs light to come out at all angles, or if it uses tint ramping, those would be reasons to use more than one.

But for a 14500 light, the battery isn’t really strong enough to justify multiple LEDs. Also, if the whole point of the light is to make it small, multiple LEDs would work against that goal.

It can sometimes be useful to put four tiny LEDs under a single optic though… like four XQ-E or E17A LEDs. This allows tint mixing to make the tint more pink. Or in the case of 4 x XQ-E, it has been used with RGBA emitters and a diffuser to produce a rainbow.

Those are pretty specialized cases though. For a general-purpose 14500 light, a single LED is the obvious choice.

(FWIW, I’m counting the Cree XHP series as a “single LED”… there are good reasons to use XHP35 HI and a boost driver, for example)

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ToyKeeper wrote:
A single LED is almost always preferable unless there are specific reasons to use more. Like, if one LED can only make 1000 lumens and you want to make 3000 or 4000, and don’t mind sacrificing throw, and are using a battery powerful enough to power it

brilliant post!

thanks for taking the time to illuminate the fact that a triple, can have less Throw, and requires more power, than a single.

I think there is a commonly held misundertanding that more lumens equals more throw.. not true if the hotspot is less focused

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flightless22 wrote:
Only if it could accept AA as well.

Same. 14500 is already a compromise because I only really use that battery size for EDC or if I’m travelling. I’d want to be able to bung an easy to find AA in it if I took it on holiday or whatever.

But yes indeed, I’d be interested to see it, though the short tube 18350 option for the FW3 further weakens my need for a 14500 version. Still, needs are generally ignored in the world of the flashaholic, and desire is forefront. Smile

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jon_slider wrote:
ToyKeeper wrote:
A single LED is almost always preferable unless there are specific reasons to use more. Like, if one LED can only make 1000 lumens and you want to make 3000 or 4000, and don’t mind sacrificing throw, and are using a battery powerful enough to power it

brilliant post!

thanks for taking the time to illuminate the fact that a triple, can have less Throw, and requires more power, than a single.

I think there is a commonly held misundertanding that more lumens equals more throw.. not true if the hotspot is less focused


I asked because there isn’t any triple 14500 on market.So will be the first. Small leds like E17A can handle not much current.
New 14500 batt.can give the necessary current but of course runtime and throw will be a bit sacrified.
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jon_slider wrote:
well, aparently there is an Anduril option for 14500 (no AA) http://budgetlightforum.com/comment/1663870#comment-1663870

That driver is designed specifically for the Boruit D10 (probably works with most of the varieties of that light too, like Sofirn/77Outdoors D25), which takes an 18650.

So far, Anduril works with several ATTiny MCUs, which we’ve made work with Li-Ion chemistries. Cell size doesn’t really matter at that point, just design a smaller driver to fit the host. There’s not a whole lot of reason Anduril can’t fit on a 10mm driver besides space, which would allow for 10440 and even 10180 lights to run Anduril.

This thread has some information about the quest for AA Anduril support. To my understanding, there’s a prototype driver design being tested currently.

ToyKeeper wrote:
(FWIW, I’m counting the Cree XHP series as a “single LED”… there are good reasons to use XHP35 HI and a boost driver, for example)

Yes, but I’m still waiting on a good 14/15mm 12v boost driver.

Sari33 wrote:
I asked because there isn’t any triple 14500 on market.So will be the first. Small leds like E17A can handle not much current.
New 14500 batt.can give the necessary current but of course runtime and throw will be a bit sacrified.

All the triple optics I’m aware of have a much larger diameter than makes any sense for a 14500 light.

EDC Rotation: ZL SC62(w) | Jaxman E2L XP-G2 5A | Purple S2+ XPL-HI U6-3A | D4 w/ Luxeon V | RRT-01 | Purple FW3A, 4000K SST20
EagTac D25C Ti | DQG Slim AA Ti | Jaxman E3 | UF-T1 by CRX | Nitecore EX11.2
L6 XHP70.2 P2 4000K FET+7135 | Jaxman M8 | MF02 | Jaxman Z1 CULNM1.TG | Blue S2+ w/ ML Special
Unfinished: Supfire M6 3xXHP50.2, Sofirn C8F, Sofirn SP70
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But triple is more efficient than single and with the Vapcell H10 or Shockli 1000mah cells, it will be able to make use of triple emitters no problem. But I’m hoping for a 14500 version of the Manker MC13

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SKV89 wrote:
But I’m hoping for a 14500 version of the Manker MC13

What, uh, what do you gain with a 14500 over an 18350 in a light with a 41.7mm head diameter? Other than length.

EDC Rotation: ZL SC62(w) | Jaxman E2L XP-G2 5A | Purple S2+ XPL-HI U6-3A | D4 w/ Luxeon V | RRT-01 | Purple FW3A, 4000K SST20
EagTac D25C Ti | DQG Slim AA Ti | Jaxman E3 | UF-T1 by CRX | Nitecore EX11.2
L6 XHP70.2 P2 4000K FET+7135 | Jaxman M8 | MF02 | Jaxman Z1 CULNM1.TG | Blue S2+ w/ ML Special
Unfinished: Supfire M6 3xXHP50.2, Sofirn C8F, Sofirn SP70
Others: Nitecore EC23 | Nebo Twyst | Streamlight ProTac 1AA | TerraLux LightStar 100

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Triples and quads have been great these past few years, but I miss single-emitter lights designed to be as small as possible. They generally had the most practical beams and were the easiest to carry. Extra lumens are neat, but on something small I carry around all the time I don’t really need more than ~100 lm or so.

So for a 14500 light I’d be pretty happy with a really thin light with a single E21A and a 500 mA buck driver or linear driver. Even just a single 7135 chip and a MCU would suffice.

But I probably wouldn’t buy a 14500 triple. It’d be wide enough that I may as well just use an 18650 light instead… and floody enough that I’d need to use twice as much light to see what it’s pointing at.

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jon_slider wrote:
thanks for taking the time to illuminate the fact that a triple, can have less Throw, and requires more power, than a single.

But if efficiency decreases with power, shouldn’t the consumption for a certain lumen output go down with increased number of LEDs?
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Unheard wrote:
jon_slider wrote:
thanks for taking the time to illuminate the fact that a triple, can have less Throw, and requires more power, than a single.

But if efficiency decreases with power, shouldn’t the consumption for a certain lumen output go down with increased number of LEDs?

This is why multiple emitters are used instead of one, to increase
efficiency at high currents.
Problem the head size of 14500 host for put a triple, Don’t know if there are lens/mcpcb smaller than 20mm
If you use this lens size and also need to increase head diameter,yes there is no reason for do that.
I just launch idea
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Unheard wrote:
jon_slider wrote:
a triple, can have less Throw, and requires more power, than a single.

But if efficiency decreases with power, shouldn’t the consumption for a certain lumen output go down with increased number of LEDs?

Efficiency, as measured in lumens per Watt, is usually higher with more LEDs. Like, at a given power level it may produce 5% more lumens or 10% or even 50%… and the greatest gains happen at the highest power levels. At low power, there’s very little difference.

Efficiency, as measured in candelas per Watt, is usually higher with just one LED. That is, assuming the overall diameter of the host remains the same. Take the FW3A vs FW1A as an example. The single-emitter version is about 500% as efficient, illuminating its target about 5X as bright at the same power level.

So you’re both right… you’re just talking about different things.

In the case of a 14500 version of the FW3A or FW1A, the topic of efficiency boils down to this: At a given power level, would you rather have a ~10% increase in lumens or a ~500% increase in candelas?

Basically, do you want an extreme flooder at ~2 cd/lm or a balanced beam at ~10 cd/lm?

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Thanks for confirming and extra thoughts about this!

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Unheard wrote:
Thanks for confirming and extra thoughts about this!

Great explain ToyKeeper thanks. Anyway yes I’m interested on mini FW1A if will be relase with AA compatibily, High CRI very warm option,small size and price.
Also an Headlamp version with these specs and ramping ui would be great…
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ToyKeeper wrote:
The single-emitter version is … illuminating its target about 5X as bright

thankyou!

can someone post a photo of the beams of an fw3a and fw1a demonstrating the difference in hotspot size?:-)

here is another example of less lumens from a single, having more throw than a triple

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jon_slider wrote:

can someone post a photo of the beams of an fw3a and fw1a demonstrating the difference in hotspot size?:-)


Here my friend Wink
Left is FW3A and right FW1A

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MascarutumB wrote:


(edited photo to add labels)..
thanks!
very helpful Thumbs Up

the difference is due to the size of the hotspot:

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I hope CRX won’t kill me posting his recent mod...

Tool AA Anduril 

 

WTB Titanium 4sevens 2xAA tube

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jon_slider wrote:

I’m pretty sure it throws farther than 92.5 millimeters. Silly

(that’s the length of the light)

Anyway, the FW3A XP-L HI gets about 4.4 cd/lm, and the FW1A XP-L HI gets about 23 cd/lm. Roughly 5X as many candelas at the same power level.

However, the FW3A can make about 2.3 or 2.5 times as many lumens. So on turbo, the difference in candelas is a factor of 2 (ish) instead of a factor of 5. But it uses like three times as much power to get half as many candelas.

There’s no question that throwy lights are more efficient at producing a bright hotspot. That’s the whole point of a thrower.

For me though, it’s not about efficiency… it’s about having the right balance. And I think the optimal balance for a small EDC-style light is roughly 5 to 15 cd/lm. This provides a useful mix of flood and throw for common daily tasks.

A 14500 compact triple would end up with like… 2 cd/lm. And a single-emitter version would be closer to 10 or 12 cd/lm. So I’ll take the single-emitter version.

If it were the other way around though, like if we were using a really tiny LED which produced a ridiculous amount of throw, and the numbers were 10 cd/lm for a triple or 50 cd/lm for a single, I’d choose the triple. Because it hits the balance I’m looking for.

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Probably not.
Does that answer help at all?

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ToyKeeper wrote:
I’m pretty sure it throws farther than 92.5 millimeters.

oops! Party
GIGO

ToyKeeper wrote:
However, the FW3A can make about 2.3 or 2.5 times as many lumens. So on turbo, the difference in candelas is a factor of 2 (ish) instead of a factor of 5. But it uses like three times as much power to get half as many candelas. … it’s about having the right balance. And I think the optimal balance for a small EDC-style light is roughly 5 to 15 cd/lm.

extremely helpful comments
thank you
I agree there needs to be a balance

thanks for introducing me to the concept of cd/lm

the data for the unmodified AA Tool is
3420cd
max output 650
so about 5 cd/lm

I find the hotspot larger than necessary and that helps me to know that higher candela per lumen would move into a higher cd/lm

I think modding to a smaller LED, in my case 219b, would raise cd/lm, making the light a bit throwier, still in within a 5-15 cd/lm

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id30209 wrote:

I hope CRX won’t kill me posting his recent mod…


Tool AA Anduril 


 

Link to CRXs original post?

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He will post edited mod

WTB Titanium 4sevens 2xAA tube

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id30209 wrote:

I hope CRX won’t kill me posting his recent mod…


Tool AA Anduril 


 

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