[Update]Wurkkos dual LEDs 21700 Headlamp design Photos/UI update~

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Lightbringer
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Wellp, that constant-downward-slope line AEDE referred to was the latter, ie, the bad one.

To me, that’s like 3×AAA lights that start out nice’n‘bright, then start slumping almost in seconds, and just get dimmer and dimmer and dimmer ‘til you change the batteries. And you have no idea how bright nor can guesstimate the current that way, either. So runtime is always a surprise, and not necessarily a good one.

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Lightbringer wrote:
Wellp, that constant-downward-slope line AEDE referred to was the latter, ie, the bad one.

To me, that’s like 3×AAA lights that start out nice’n‘bright, then start slumping almost in seconds, and just get dimmer and dimmer and dimmer ‘til you change the batteries. And you have no idea how bright nor can guesstimate the current that way, either. So runtime is always a surprise, and not necessarily a good one.

Here I was convinced the driver of the FC11 was CC, I’ll be damned. Zak’s review confirms there is PWM on every mode except turbo. Shocked

But still, regardless whether a PWM’ed FET is used or a CC linear, or 7135 chips… without excess voltage, output will decline with cell charge. There is literally no getting around this, and with high Vf emitters it is even more noticeable. The big difference is in efficiency and the presence of PWM.

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BurningPlayd0h wrote:

Again, the only lights that can sustain brightness like that are those with boost drivers, or multiple cells .


Graph show driver behaviour only.
No.Voltage drop on 351D is ~2.7V. 18650 under 3V have ~5% of energy. So during 95% of battery energy output can be stable using buck or linear driver. After that 95% I can simply change battery.
BurningPlayd0h wrote:

What are some of the “real lights” that don’t have a drop in output like the graph you posted?

Any light with li-ion battery. Just look at discharge curve.
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AEDe wrote:
BurningPlayd0h wrote:

Again, the only lights that can sustain brightness like that are those with boost drivers, or multiple cells .


Graph show driver behaviour only.
No.Voltage drop on 351D is ~2.7V. 18650 under 3V have ~5% of energy. So during 95% of battery energy output can be stable using buck or linear driver. After that 95% I can simply change battery.
BurningPlayd0h wrote:

What are some of the “real lights” that don’t have a drop in output like the graph you posted?

Any light with li-ion battery. Just look at discharge curve.

Look at the S2+ Med runtime on this graph, as soon as it drops below required Vf for that mode output declines with voltage. This will be consistent in direct drive and linear vs boost or buck driver.

A Zebralight with boost driver has this result, due to voltage step-up with boost circuit. ^ That is what many reviewers and members on here simply consider “regulation”. There is a a huge difference.

Even the buck driver in the SP31v2 drops output once cell voltage is low. A cell at “X” voltage simply can’t supply more without a boost circuit.

As you said, since the Vf is so low with lower outputs there is little benefit to buck driver in a 3V, single cell light (other than losing voltage as heat earlier in the discharge curve). I would love to see more buck drivers since there’s little disadvantage, but for a budget light I’m never upset with a CC linear driver either.

100% agreed that PWM’ed FET has too many downsides other than a boost in max output with full cells Thumbs Up I was unaware that was what was used in the FC11, and hope this light utilizes something else as well.

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Ironically, that’s where linear shines(haha).

Especially with low Vf LEDs, you get stable consistent output for most of the cell’s SOC, and then at the tail end it’ll start going dimmer and allow you plenty of time to react.

And that’s even vs a boost circuit that’ll hold consistent output ‘til a few seconds before it craps out completely as the cell winds down to zero.

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Lightbringer wrote:

And that’s even vs a boost circuit that’ll hold consistent output ‘til a few seconds before it craps out completely as the cell winds down to zero.


Behaviour of work at low charge is determined by software in boost driver. It may slowly decrease output, may to step down, may work comined way.
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Lux-Perpetua wrote:

Narmattaru wrote:

Agree with AEDe


as it is basically Sofirn, why dont take driver construction from C8G?  21700, step+stepless, full stabilization – great driver



Not sure if the C8G driver is appropriate here. It is designed to drive a 12V XHP35 HI emitter. The first batch I tested had a rather mediocre ramping curve when increasing the brightness. The current applied to the XHP35 HI was about 1.7A only, leaving a lot of potential unused. Moreover, thermal regulation acted way too early on this light. Fortunately, both Wurkkos and Sofirn have agreed to raise the thermal threshold for HD20 to 55°C in return for better performance/longer runtimes on Turbo/High mode. As far as I was told HD20 will be using an FET driver, i.e. no boost driver with full stabilization.

It wasn’t the thermal regulation that was the issue on the C8G, there is a step down that occurs after 30 sec on any brightness above 900 lumens

Texas Ace Lumen Tube calibrated with maukka lights

New Zealand store – https://www.piercingthedarkness.co.nz (NZ customers only)

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I apologize for derailing the conversation with a little off topic question.

What would it take to have a multi LED headlamp with a RED LED (XP-E2 deep red) just like in the WK30?

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sochi111 wrote:
I apologize for derailing the conversation with a little off topic question.

What would it take to have a multi LED headlamp with a RED LED just like in the WK30?

Strap the WK30 to your head Silly

Texas Ace Lumen Tube calibrated with maukka lights

New Zealand store – https://www.piercingthedarkness.co.nz (NZ customers only)

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Funtastic wrote:

Strap the WK30 to your head Silly

Lol Funtastic idea Smile

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roostre wrote:
best to design a tail cap where the magnet can be removed and replaced with a non-magnetic spacer, that way you have a choice.

Maybe the removable magnet could be under a tail cap spring board that is held in place by a thin threaded ring (which uses the same threads as the tail cap) if this could be done without compromising the electrical reliability of the light.


 


Experienced outdoor people still use maps and compasses during their outdoor adventures.


Any magnet within several feet of a compass will affect the accuracy of the compass reading disastrously.  You cannot have a headlamp with a magnetic tail cap anywhere near your compass and also navigate accurately because the magnet changes the compass bearing to the wrong direction.

I just verified that with H03 with a magnetic tailcap. You don’t have to use a compass, many phones have a magnetometer to find directions of travel, and will get confused by the magnet in headlamp.

Miguel_79
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Any new news about this project?

Wurkkos wrote:
Thank you for all suggestion for HD20 and thank you Lux-perpetua to collect all information. And finally we have confirm the UI and the LEDs

Spotlight—Cree XPL 5000K
Floodlight—LH351D 5000K 90CRI

UI details (except the raming mode)
!http://ae01.alicdn.com/kf/H6dedfb86489b4a31a2fc83ed0225bc1du.jpg!

drewski
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Please check me if this question is culturally insensitive, but what’s with the long pinky nail? Is it to denote class or is a home-grown cocaine spoon? Also this is huge for a headlamp. Cool concept though.

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Miguel_79 wrote:
Any new news about this project?

There's more to come very soon. Please stay tuned. Smile

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Tagging so I get updates. I like the recharge capability and throw and flood on same unit.

sochi111
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Lux-Perpetua wrote:

A magnetic tailcap would surely be a nice add on but it will also increase HD20’s weight. So, maybe they can sell a magnetic tailcap individually or put both versions (magnetic/non-magnetic) in the retail box. A big benefit would be a tailcap design that fits to more Sofirn/Wurkkos 21700 lights.

What is your take on a magnetic tailcap with a removable magnet. The actual magnet can be removed or installed. Maybe something simple like this magnet ring that would fit perfectly in the tail?

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sochi111 wrote:
What is your take on a magnetic tailcap with a removable magnet. The actual magnet can be removed or installed. Maybe something simple like this magnet ring that would fit perfectly in the tail? [...]

Looks interesting. I have never tried this before with any of my stock lights. I suppose this ring will surround the tailcap spring, being in direct contact between the tailcap's inner wall and the negative pole of the battery, right? Maybe it could become difficult to fully screw the tailcap back on the tube if the magnet ring leaves less space for spring compression?

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Lux-Perpetua wrote:

Looks interesting. I have never tried this before with any of my stock lights. I suppose this ring will surround the tailcap spring, being in direct contact between the tailcap’s inner wall and the negative pole of the battery, right? Maybe it could become difficult to fully screw the tailcap back on the tube if the magnet ring leaves less space for spring compression?

I never thought having it inside. It might be a good idea or maybe not as you contemplated.
My suggestion was to keep it outside, easier to remove and probably less costly.

This particular magnet ring fits perfectly around the rubber booth or metal switch. Like C8s, S2, S3 VG10s etc……

It’s easy to remove, just pry it out, in a second. Some people use a tiny bit of glue to keep it more stable around the switch that prevents it from accidentally coming out. I am sure people will come up with a little more sophisticated solution as well.

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Miguel_79 wrote:
Any new news about this project?

Wurkkos wrote:
Thank you for all suggestion for HD20 and thank you Lux-perpetua to collect all information. And finally we have confirm the UI and the LEDs

Spotlight—Cree XPL 5000K
Floodlight—LH351D 5000K 90CRI

UI details (except the raming mode)
!http://ae01.alicdn.com/kf/H6dedfb86489b4a31a2fc83ed0225bc1du.jpg!


It sad the factory delayed the production, just start on CNC cutting ,will update as soon as it start assemble
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sochi111 wrote:
I apologize for derailing the conversation with a little off topic question.

What would it take to have a multi LED headlamp with a RED LED (XP-E2 deep red) just like in the WK30?

The Skilhunt H03C headlamp uses the “XM-L Color” LED (single-LED with white/blue/red/green), but the white has only around 200+ max lumens, if I recall correctly.

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Wurkkos wrote:
Miguel_79 wrote:
Any new news about this project?

Wurkkos wrote:
Thank you for all suggestion for HD20 and thank you Lux-perpetua to collect all information. And finally we have confirm the UI and the LEDs

Spotlight—Cree XPL 5000K
Floodlight—LH351D 5000K 90CRI

UI details (except the raming mode)
!http://ae01.alicdn.com/kf/H6dedfb86489b4a31a2fc83ed0225bc1du.jpg!


It sad the factory delayed the production, just start on CNC cutting ,will update as soon as it start assemble

Any ideas of release date yet? Maybe late autumn?

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I like the idea of a dual beam headlamp but this thing is big and heavy.

Couldn’t it be designed like an ordinary headlamp with the head part “streched” to acomodate two light sources? Imagine two H04 heads together on one tube.

SK H04 is some 45ish grams, so with longer head part the whole thing would be something like… 70ish grams?

Someone needs to TIG weld H04 and H04R heads together Big Smile

Or maybe I’m just dumb and rest of you know why something like that wouldn’t work.

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Mraz wrote:
I like the idea of a dual beam headlamp but this thing is big and heavy.

Well if you need or want headlamp that can put out good amount of constant lumens then mass is required.
Also I think there is already enough 18650-headlamps out there so why not bigger ones that can really put out some light. You get used of the weight and unless you think about going for an all night run or something like that then the weight really shouldnt be an issue. Fenix had good idea about using external battery pack on some of their lights so there is weight on your head.

Talking about big lights well Acebeam H30 can put out 1000 lumens of constant light, not sure if there is any other headlamp that can do that? Maybe some Zebralight?

I been waiting for some time to see more and more 21700-headlamps. Especially more budget options. This HD20 sure looks promising, probably my next all-rounder headlamp that I use in walks, exploring, camping etc.

sochi111
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d_t_a wrote:
sochi111 wrote:
I apologize for derailing the conversation with a little off topic question.

What would it take to have a multi LED headlamp with a RED LED (XP-E2 deep red) just like in the WK30?

The Skilhunt H03C headlamp uses the “XM-L Color” LED (single-LED with white/blue/red/green), but the white has only around 200+ max lumens, if I recall correctly.

That sounds interesting, will check it out.

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Tried .still hard to minus the weight, only 10 gram less Shocked Shocked main use may better as a angle flashlight, and a headband will as a part of accessories in package, i did try on my head, If it is not used for a long time, it is acceptable

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The mistake is to place charging circuit into host. It take precious space and complicates host design. USB port is a hole in host which effects IPX

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And it was never known again about this flashlight.

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I still have high hopes for this one.

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He has to have it built, test it, revise it, etc. You don’t want him to just give you the first thing they turn out it takes a bit of time to iterate a good product. I’m super excited to have a company asking what we want and need in a light and allowing us to be a part of that process lets be patient with them as they take all these ideas into consideration and create something for us that can be mass produced. As Wurrkos grows I have high hopes for the enthusiast driven approach they are taking.

P.S. 21700 deep carry edc next please

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Wurkkos HD20 is definitely coming soon. I’m currently working on the English/German manual, so I kindly ask you for a bit more patience.

I also suggested Wurkkos to take a (deep) red+white version of HD20 into consideration. 

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