Klarus MiX6 1x AAA

29 posts / 0 new
Last post
kreisler
kreisler's picture
Offline
Last seen: 4 years 3 months ago
Joined: 11/12/2011 - 23:32
Posts: 3992
Location: Deutcheland
Klarus MiX6 1x AAA

while cpf has several of them (e.g. My new Klarus Mi-X6), i think this forum has no dedicated thread for the Klarus Mi X6 yet, so let's ramble a little about it and gather thoughts, info, details, or even measurements or pictures.

here my exact measurements:

dimensions: 71.75mm x 12.70mm x 11.60mm

weight:

head+body, w/o split rings/battery: 17.063g [17g]

head+body+1 mini split ring, w/o battery: 17.468g [17g]

 

the klarus mix6 is not the brightest 1x AAA torch out there. and even before the step-down in High-mode the spec'ed "85lm" are plain wrong:

,(click to enlarge!)

As had selfbuilt measured and confirmed, my other lights are brighter (with regard to both peak brightness, typical brightness and integral brightness): iTP A3, Worm Alu, Worm SS, Tank E09 and Fenix LD01 R4.

If you want to compare the above animated GIF with others, check out the quiz.

 

the Klarus is no budget light but was on sale on DD (starting price 37.39$), and with the DD coupon code (5$ off 30+), your dinopoints (typically 500) and a nice 7-15$ giftcard, you could get your paypal account charged by 20$ or less (depending on your actual dinopoints and giftcard). typical retail price (HKE, goinggear, ebay) is 49.95$. So you're paying 20$ for a 50$ keychain light. Worth the deal? Let's discuss it and review the item.

First off, ordering this item from DD is a bit of a lottery, for example let's take the 14th Feb of 2012 and compare the following two folders of pre-ship photos on facebook (you need to be logged into your facebook account!):

a folder of pre-ship photos @ 2012-02-14

vs.

another folder of pre-ship photos @ 2012-02-14

as you will see, apart from countless Klarus P2A's and some Tank E09's which were shipped on that particular day, DD had sent out several Klarus MiX6 shipments:

people who ordered Klarus MiX6 "Titanium" (SKU: A1757000BW ) either got the true Titanium version ( proof1: , proof2: ) or the fake stainless steel version ( proof3:   ).

People with the Titanium version were happy about the correct fulfillment of their order and people with the SS version were dazzled about the wrong shipment, complained at the DD chat and received a generous 15$ partial refund (in form of a DD giftcard, EDIT: up to 20$ possible!!) for keeping the SS unit.

The reason why DD ships different MiX6's for the same SKU can be guessed only. I would think that they have limited stock of the Ti only, so they continue to advertise the product as "Ti" and some lucky customers would actually receive the Ti. Many others would receive the SS, however, and probably not think of complaining or bothering because they knew from the beginning (thru this thread, for example haha) that it was lottery anyway. Those who complained got their 15$ refund, those who returned the item got the full refund, and those who didnt complain were still happy about the inexpensive acquisition of the SS. Maybe DD really knows that their stock on the MiX6 is mixed and maybe it's their aim to clear the stock, both the SS and the Ti, altogether. i know of at least 3 people who ordered it from DD and received the SS. And i also know of 1 person who received the Ti, and from the above proof pictures you can see that there were even 2 lucky customers for the Ti on Feb 14th. So maybe i am plain wrong with my assumptions and DD simply is too disorganized and the stockists dont care if the box says "Ti" or not.

EDIT: as late as in March 2012, DD hasnt run out of Ti stock!

( proof4 :  )

The best advice is: after placing the order, contact DD pre-sales chat (DinoWilliam, DinoVictor, DinoJoe, ...) with your order number and let them forward a message (order instructions) to the warehouse/shipping department so that the latter makes sure to bag the "Ti"-labeled white Klarus boxes in favor of you (your order). In addition, send DD customer service an e-mail with a transcript (screenshot) of your chat session, and let them make double sure that the warehouse department gets the order instructions. Btw, price has just gone up (40.xx$).

In any case, if you want to order it from DD, make sure you got some Dinopoints (700 is typical for an average BLF boardie Wink ), have a storewide coupon code at hand (e.g. 5$ off 30$+ orders), and also a giftcard (e.g. 5$ from a resellerratings review, or simply "from a previous DD order" haha), so that you save 17$ from the very beginning. Currently the MiX6 is costs 38.99US$, so you would end up with a 21.99$ paypal deduction. At this point, dont be stingy but add the 2.00$ insurance (tracking number); otherwise the ~4 weeks of waiting will kill you haha. If they deliver the SS, then feel free to substract 15$ (the partial refund!) from it, and then you're a happy camper as well. In other words, the "DD price difference" between the SS and Ti is 15$, i.e. the partial refund which you will get when you keep the SS.

So let's get back to the product itself. Here my random blah:

i own a copy of it and here's what could be called issues (CON's):

- the threads are not tight but very loose and wobbly. this becomes apparent as soon as you remove/exchange/maintain the o-ring. the threads are razor-sharp, and not square-cut threads. the threads and o-ring come pre-lubed, which is nice. With the installed o-ring, the wobbliness is gone and the result is butter-smooth twisting action. so far so good. i do recommend silicone grease (instead of superlube) on these sharp threads to reduce the play in the threads and make twisting action harder. Yes, harder!

- the threads are short. together with the aforementioned wobbliness there's a good chance to lose the head. well, take care.

- the black foam pad between battery and PCB of the driver is useless other than damping little shocks against the PCB by the battery. it's useless because the whole system is a battery crusher system and loosening the head for 1/4 of a turn will produce a rattling sound when you shake the torch up and down or sidewards. when the head is in a general light-twist-off-position, the battery does rattle. the foam pad is stuck to the PCB not with glue but with a double-sided tape (twin-sided adhesive tape). the pad actually makes the light turn on later (i.e. more twisting required) than without tape. since it's useless anyway, i've removed it. To reduce the rattling of the battery i've wound scotch tape around the upper part of the battery. There should be minimal play left because of the way how contact (electric circuit closed!) is made: the battery must be able to shift up and down. (to be honest, i still dont know how this torch works haha. just dont wrap too much scotch tape around the battery!!)
- the rear spring is not a standard spring and will flatten out after a short while already (depending on your use)
- the light is longer than common AAA lights. (71.8mm long, with head fully tightened; and longer if armed with battery). just saying that it is suprisingly long and not smaller than other common AAA lights. its slimness doesnt contribute much to the impression that it is "smaller" than the others.
- the threads are short. feel free to loosen and lose the head thanks. oops, already mentioned.
- the (male) threads are on the head. thus it's a battery crusher system. you cant just vigorously tighten the head because there is no stopper. when you tighten the head with 1-hand, it's difficult to hit the exact point when the light comes on for the first time. 2 hands are needed if you dont want to tighten the head beyond this point because 2 hands can act/work much more controlled and precisely. Female threads on the head would have the big advantage that even a blind man knows when the light (e.g. iTP A3) has to have turned on: he FULLY TIGHTENS the head (and feels the mechanical stop) and that's the point of closed electrical circuit. In contrast, i happened to have a good(?) cell in the Klarus. I tightened the head. Nothing happened. Whaaaaatt???!? So i was wondering. Had i tightened enough or is the lamp dead? So i tightened even more, until i realized that i was already way beyond the point of closed circuit. So the circuit was closed (and a blind man wouldnt know it because he cant see or feel how much he has already twisted the head) and there was still no light. Whaaattt??!?!?! So i exchanged the battery, and there i got my light! Clever as i was, i marked one of the head grooves (and a blind man cant see this) (and when it's dark you cant see it either. so you have to twist veeeeeery slowly and carefully until the contact point is reached. you will know this only by "visual inspection": the light has turned on! there is no tactical feedback, stop, or whatever mechanical, which signals that the light has already turned on.) when i got the light brand-new. This way i could always tell when the contact point should have been reached, and when the flattening out of the spring has already taken place. Well, let me tell you, my light is still new, hardly used, but the spring is already flattening out. The marker tells me this. My thoughts: the battery crusher system isnt bad per se and the user wouldnt be worried if there was a standard spring installed in the back, i.e. a spring which doesnt flatten out after some use or after (accidental) FULLY TIGHTENING of the head. Anyway, at one point your light wont turn on anymore (give the light to your kid and let him play with it for a year..) because the spring has become too flat (and weakened). Time for maintenance then! Wink
- i've seen broken glass lens on cpfmp. so, of course, if you drop the light from little height (3 feet) but at the "right" angle, the lens will break. this will indeed happen with any production light. am just saying. it's not a rugged light but a "designer's light" or a "fashion light". you should take good care of it. again, it's not meant to be a rugged light, and it certainly isnt.
- it's not one of the brightest AAA lights. many others are brighter (on all levels). nor can you install a LiIon cell. you cannot impress people with its modest brightness. Well, maybe that's a good thing. The light is designed to operate under safe conditions and for long runtimes.
- the light is bigger than i had expected. this is due to its length. the original iTP A3 EOS is 66.5mm long, and the newer editions of it are all shorter than the Klarus. easy to tell. it's not a negligible difference or unnoticeable. it is very noticeable that the Klarus is long once you have it (in your hands, in front of you, on your keychain, ..).
- the printing (logo, model number, serial number) is not engraved. it's painted. dont ask me how easily one you scratch it off with keys. i am not gonna test it. in fact, i rather keep my Klarus as shelf queen. i prefer my more rugged, smaller, brighter, lighter, cheaper, female head-threaded 1xAAA-lights for actual daily use on my keychain. Honestly, i always feel at unease when it's dark (and i cant see the marked groove or i am in a hurry to produce light) and i have to twist on the Klarus. There is no tactical feedback. And you will overtighten the head (i.e. beyond the point of contact). oh well, but then we have the positive sides (PRO's):

+ the best lube for this torch is silicone grease, e.g. Nextorch Silicone Grease. since the grease is thick and sticky, it takes away much of the wobbliness of the threads, adds friction to the o-ring and threads, and thus provides added security. it is now harder to twist the head and has become impossible for single-handed operation .. but chances are low that you lose the head. In most flashlight lubing scenarios silicone grease is the least desirable option because of the added friction/drag/resistance but for the MiX6 this is desirable.
+ does tailstand (on perfectly flat&plane surface). in the following pic it tailstands on the glass surface of my PC flatbed scanner, right next to the tailstanding iTP A3 EOS Titanium (and 2 lying Lumintop Worm); the pic is not a photo but a PC scan directly taken by my EPSON scanner:

If the surface is uneven or inclined, both the MiX6 and the A3 EOS cant tailstand anymore and will topple over.
+ great keyring attachment point. works best with the supplied little split ring. Attach this little split ring to your standard keyring and you're all set!
+ the machining of threads is perfectnice. they come prelubed and with the installed o-ring there is no play, no wobbliness. the head twists smoothly.
+ the advantage of the male threads on the head is the presence of the massive heat sink pill (brass?). Having a massive heat sink is always good. i am sure that there is some constructional reason why they decided to machine female threads in the body. i am guessing that it's related to the small diameter of the body and the thinness of the body wall.

+ the brushed stainless steel looks like (brushed) Titanium and feels good. scratch-resistant finish

+ of all my 10 lights, the beam has the "best" tint and beam pattern. The LED is a cool-white XP-G R5 and the anti-reflective coating reflects purplish but on high-mode the tint is perfect: pure white (neutral white. "warmish" even??) with no blueish, purplish, yellowish or greenish tendencies. The beam has a uniform tint over the entire beam pattern: white. (the Tank E09 for example has a white hotspot with minimal greenishness and a purplish spill, so it's no uniform tint over the entire beam pattern). and on the Low-mode and Med-mode the tint stays that way: nicely white.

+ the hotspot is very diffuse and therefore looks perfectly clean, round, even, smooth, symmetrical, circular, radialsymmetric, etc etc etc. there is no corona or corona artifacts. the center's brightness is evenly smoothed out and due its diffusion it's difficult to determine the border of the hotspot, where to define it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YXc8-ykmAds

+ the light is floody. great for indoors use or extended little areas within your reach, e.g. a desk, table or book.

+ if you can get the DD price down to 15$, i would high recommend its purchase. That would be a nice price, no questions asked!

The torch has been reviewed by HKJ and selfbuilt with beamshots and measurement graphs. When i am bored again, i will try to reproduce their published runtimes with Eneloops (EDIT: see below). With regard to brightness and regulation all we need to know is: yes, the light is well-regulated (current regulated, and no PWM) over the full runtime, and it doesnt appear like a bright light. Its diffused beam pattern even fosters this impression.

For EDC keychain rotation, it's clearly a recommended member. From Mon-Thu carry your Tank E09, on Fri and Sat carry your iTP A3 (with 10440 to show off during the weekend nights), and on Sun when you go to church carry the Klarus on your keychain. Deal?

:hat:

Runtimes are (until light visibly drops out of regulation):

testruns:

High-mode (MiX6 w/ XP-G R5)
testrun stoppedremaining offline voltagerecoverable tocapacity consumed
Eneloop cell#1 & testrun#11h19min~0.84V1.1834V798mAh
Eneloop cell#2 & testrun#21h18min~1.20V1.2657V638mAh
Eneloop cell#3 & testrun#31h17min~1.20V1.2636V691mAh
Eneloop cell#4 & testrun#41h10min~1.22V1.2696V625mAh

 

1h10min ~1.22V 1.2696V 625mAh

1h15min ~1.17V 1.2453V 710mAh

1h17min ~1.20V 1.2636V 691mAh

1h18min ~1.20V 1.2657V 638mAh

1h19min ~0.84V 1.1834V 798mAh

1h26min ~1.105V 1.2395V 730mAh

1h28min ~0.91V 1.2136V 752mAh

1h30min ~0.92V 1.2029V 726mAh

1h31min ~0.84V 1.2004V 770mAh

1h31min ~0.87V 1.2127V 735mAh

1h32min ~0.88V 1.1986V 730mAh

1h32min ~0.92V 1.2146V 762mAh

 

Med-mode (MiX6 w/ XP-G R5)
testrun stoppedremaining offline voltagerecoverable tocapacity consumed
Eneloop cell#1 & testrun#15h17min~0.82V1.1636V790mAh
Eneloop cell#2 & testrun#25h1min
~0.84V1.1844V780mAh
Eneloop cell#3 & testrun#34h59min~1.19V1.2437V671mAh
Eneloop cell#4 & testrun#44h55min~1.177V1.2346V731mAh

5h17min ~0.82V 1.1636V 790mAh

5h10min ~1.138V 1.2114V 709mAh

5h1min ~0.84V 1.1844V 780mAh

4h59min ~1.19V 1.2437V 671mAh

4h55min ~1.177V 1.2346V 731mAh

sdfsfdsdf

Low-mode (MiX6 w/ XP-G R5)
testrun stoppedremaining offline voltagerecoverable tocapacity consumed
Eneloop cell#1 & testrun#1tbatbatbatba
Eneloop cell#2 & testrun#247h15min (dead)
~0.84V1.1305V792mAh
Eneloop cell#3 & testrun#345h58min (dead)
~0.84V1.1622V757mAh
Eneloop cell#4 & testrun#447h39min (dead)
~0.83V1.1212V790mAh

In testruns #2, #3 and #4 i missed the point when the light dropped dead. When it does, the cell is then already depleted and the light would begin to flicker/pulse and eventually totally drop dead. Since the circuit is still closed, voltage would remain constant at below 0.83V. Basically, testruns #2, #3 and #4 are useless since they dont give any indication of the runtime of the cell on Low-mode. They only tell us that the runtime is for sure well below it, i.e. < 47h15min.

Klarus MiX6 (XP-G R5)HighMedLow
Klarus Lighting Co. Ltd70min5h42m66hrs
selfbuilt, Eneloop66min4h50mN/A
HKJ, Eneloop65min5h5mN/A
kreisler, Eneloop93min5h10m45hrs
selfbuilt, Alkaline29min5h7mN/A
kreisler, AlkalineN/ATBAN/A

I dont think that tailcap readings are relevant to the discussion. Let's include them anyway in form of my own measurements of tailcap readings at offline voltages. the values in parentheses were obtained with the "mA/μA"-setting of the UT61E, which seems to produce a considerable voltage drop in the DMM. this is noticeable because at say 1.00V the brightness of Med-Low-High-Strobe is about the same, namely very dim. Ignoring the values in parantheses, the measurements with the "A"-setting coincide with HKJ's professional measurements with an external power source which maintains constant voltage harha. All my own measurements, enjoy:

tailcap readingsMedLowHighStrobe
Eneloop AAA @1.47V0.130A (155.13mA)
0.015A (24.37mA)
0.642AN/A
Eneloop AAA @1.05V0.419A (77.72mA)
0.027A (60.63mA)
1.879AN/A
Varta NiMH @1.47V0.136A (146.35mA)
0.015A (24.29mA)
1.786AN/A
Alkaline AAA @1.5VtbatbatbaN/A

The above table tells us: On High-mode the torch draws at least 0.6A from a fresh Eneloop cell and up to 1.8A when the Eneloop is almost depleted, i.e. in the range of 0.95...1.15V offline voltage. On a generic NiMH cell the torch draws 1.8A from a fresh cell and amperage would decrease subsequently because the cell/torch falls out of regulation from the very beginning. This means that you dont get constant brightness on High-mode with a generic NiMH cell (nor with a generic Alkaline cell).

Conclusion: As with so many Cree power LED lights, neither Alkaline nor NiMH cells are suitable/recommendable for the Klarus MiX6 torch. For 2 reasons: 1. Those cells dont meet the high current requirement of Cree LED's, and 2. Klarus did not optimize the torch for use with low current cells such as NiMH or Alkaline. Thus the only way to enjoy the full power and high-mode brightness of the MiX6 is by using original Sanyo Eneloops! (Don't buy legit Eneloop clones. On ebay, an 8-pack of Eneloop AAA costs 12.50€, which is cheap!!, so you wont save a lot of money by buying the Eneloop clones.)

mods:

now i am finally satisfied with the "built quality" of the light!! -- you can fully tighten the head until the screwing motion (twisting) comes to a mechanical stop, there is no more battery rattle in OFF or ON position, your original spring is 100% spared (and is now part of the accessory bag), and the light is more impact resistant (head, glass lens, ..). for my mod i used golden DD tweezers to take out the (rear!) original springy system, 1x o-ring from the Tank E09 accessory bag to form a (front!) new springy system in conjunction with the pad-ring, and some washer (brass, copper, aluminum, whatever) to establish permanent electrical contact with the MiX6 body.

In the following picture (it's a PC scan!) i placed the Klarus MiX6 mini split ring and spare o-ring beneath the torch's head to generate a 3-dimensional effect so that you can see the driver disc. Normally the foamy pad-ring is sticked to the driver disc (with very fine twin-sided adhesive tape):

( click to enlarge! )

I dont need to talk much here. The pics are first-class and self-explanatory (haha self-praise **cks). The Tank E09 o-ring [8.0 x 10.0 x 1.0mm] has the perfect size (diameter and thickness); the Klarus MiX6 spare o-ring [9.0 x 11.0 x 1.0mm] is negligibly larger (diameter) and works too; the Fenix LD01 spare o-ring [8.0 x 10.4 x 1.2mm] is a little too fat (thickness). The foam pad-ring and the o-ring together form a .. new foam!, so to speak a composite foam. A foam in such a same function (Reduce battery rattle, reverse polarity protection, ..) is known from other battery crusher lights, such as the DQG Tiny III which too has no spring or spring system in the battery compartment at the bottom of the body tube. The pad-ring has the dimensions 5.0 x 10.0 x 0.95mm, such that our composite foam has a total thickness of 1.95mm. The height of the Eneloop nub (positive "+" pole) is less than 1.70mm and may average 1.6mm, so that our new springy system has to travel, or needs to compressed by ~0.35mm before the circuit is closed. It does require some force to compress the 1.95mm by 0.35mm, and 1-handed twisting operation of the light has become more difficult by just a little.

The above picture shows the (brass?) ring which i found in the garage. Its dimensions are 8.3 x 10.5 x 1.5mm. The "10.5mm" is smaller than the MiX6 inner tube diameter and i can easily let the brass ring drop to the bottom (base) of the battery compartment, sweet!

The head needs to be tightened with force (hehe have to luv it!) until the screw motion is blocked by the Eneloop cell (battery crusher system, as mentioned earlier). From that "Light ON"-position on, the head can be twisted up to >180° before the cell would finally have enough play to produce rattling sounds. Since it is a battery crusher system, naturally any minimal twisting movement (e.g. 0.5°!!) suffices to turn the light OFF or to cycle thru the mode sequence (MED - LO - HI - Strobe).

The only disadvantage of my MiX6 is, apart from the Eneloop the system consists of three(3) loose parts: the brass ring (below the cell), the Tank E09 o-ring (on top of the cell), and the loose pad-ring. This is no problem if the torch is loaded with a cell: when you exchange batteries the loose o-ring (and loose pad-ring) sit on top of the cell surrounded by the female body threads, like a cup. If you got your s*it together, you shouldnt accidentally lose the 2 loose parts (me!). However, if there is no cell in the body tube, then .. it's big party time inside!

The Klarus MiX6 accessory bag looks now like this: 




Well, i do use the supplied mini split ring. It's good stuff.

And if you're wondering how the head is protected with black rubber .. read dis here:

Ensuring ANSI FL-1 STANDARD impact shock drop resistance

*FMI* i got 4 i/o sh
Edited by: kreisler on 09/29/2012 - 17:43
BetweenRides
BetweenRides's picture
Offline
Last seen: 4 years 3 months ago
Joined: 01/02/2011 - 10:34
Posts: 2960
Location: Chicagoland, USA

Thanks for the indepth info, kreisler. I'm in the market for a nice AAA, shouldn't be taking me so long to make up my mind but I figured I'd use the time over CNY to research instead of making an impulse purchase. I looked at Klarus but I can't seem to get over my dislike of the loose head = off position of most of these AAA lights. Does anyone ever reach into there pocket for their light and find it disassembled?

That is one sharp looking light, as is the Ti version.

kreisler
kreisler's picture
Offline
Last seen: 4 years 3 months ago
Joined: 11/12/2011 - 23:32
Posts: 3992
Location: Deutcheland

BetweenRides wrote:
Does anyone ever reach into there pocket for their light and find it disassembled?

the advantage of any loosen-to-turn-off twisty is that it wont accidentally turn on. Loosen-to-turn-on twisties (which are rare) will eventually turn on, as has been reported. Clickies will turn on too, e.g. Preon P1 or Zebralight SC51. The disadvantage is, yes, loosen-to-turn-off twisties can lose their heads, as has been reported (Streamlight Nano (bad problem) or even the iTP A3 (not a bad problem)).

while it's conceivable, in practice i think nobody has ever lost the Klarus head. it's an expensive light, you take good care of it, so you dont lose the head haha. If you are new in the market of keychain lights and not in a rush and also fear loosing your (hehe) head , then why not begin with something cheapish yet recommendable.. the Tank E09 has veery long, non-wobbly, smooth threads. No way you could ever lose the head.

the iTP A3 is a veery nice torch (aluminum, SS, Ti), and if you take the Ti version, you cant lose the head either (there's too much friction on titanium threads). the main problem with the A3 is its repairability and replaceability. If it dies, you cannot repair it but must buy a new one. The E09 on the other hand is easily fixed (see my review) and, if necessary, also cheaply replaced by swapped parts.

The A3 is reportedly not the most rugged torch so you may live with the fear of losing a member of your personal system, one day. I dont live with the fear of breaking the E09. I own several copies, did some parts swapping, and also measures to prevent it from breaking (e.g. the prophylactic insulation fix) -- i am in full control of my E09's life. Feels good.

If you decide to order the E09 from Dinodirect, enter the coupon code "KREISHILL" Wink for a whooping 37% discount and i earn 350 dinopoints for the transaction. It's my commission. ( o please!! do you know the meaning of smileys??  Silly ) EDIT: yeah, the coupon code is a joke. coupon codes exist en masse for storewide DD but KREISHILL (kreisler is a DD shiller haha) isnt a valid one lol.

*FMI* i got 4 i/o sh
BetweenRides
BetweenRides's picture
Offline
Last seen: 4 years 3 months ago
Joined: 01/02/2011 - 10:34
Posts: 2960
Location: Chicagoland, USA

I'm not to crazy about the style/looks of the A3 or the E09, but thank you for the coupon code for DD!. I'm leaning heavily towards the EOSLamp SP11. I like the idea of SS or Ti, but they seem so expensive for what really should be a cheap little lite for EDC. The SS Klarus is a good looking light, though (Ti is gorgeous). My Road bike has a titanium frame and I love the material.

kreisler
kreisler's picture
Offline
Last seen: 4 years 3 months ago
Joined: 11/12/2011 - 23:32
Posts: 3992
Location: Deutcheland

BetweenRides wrote:
but thank you for the coupon code for DD!

S)

( o please!! c'mon J) )

*FMI* i got 4 i/o sh
HKJ
HKJ's picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 hours 45 min ago
Joined: 05/24/2011 - 12:23
Posts: 5868
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark

This thread is missing a photo of the lights:

 

And compared to some other lights:

My website with reviews of many chargers and batteries (More than 1000): https://lygte-info.dk/

saypat
saypat's picture
Offline
Last seen: 14 hours 36 min ago
Joined: 07/13/2011 - 20:32
Posts: 2742
Location: Calif

should probably make it a little clearer that your coupon code is not legit, not everybody is on your wavelength...

gen1.3_
gen1.3_'s picture
Offline
Last seen: 5 years 1 month ago
Joined: 05/25/2011 - 09:16
Posts: 763
Location: Commifornia
Great in-depth blah! This OP should be considered for BLF "The Flashies" Awards!

kreisler
kreisler's picture
Offline
Last seen: 4 years 3 months ago
Joined: 11/12/2011 - 23:32
Posts: 3992
Location: Deutcheland

just wondering, i've tried to measure the current in Low-mode.

in the "A(Ampere)"-setting, my DMM measures "0.015A" which is the same value as HKJ's.

in the "mA/μA(miliAmpere/microAmpere)"-setting, the DMM measures "26.15mA".

 

These are two very different numbers. Naturally i would trust the "26.15mA" reading more .. i mean that's what a DMM is supposed to do: measure the current as exactly as possible. But then i am wondering why in the "A"-setting the DMM doesnt display something like "0.026A".

 

So confusing.

*FMI* i got 4 i/o sh
HKJ
HKJ's picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 hours 45 min ago
Joined: 05/24/2011 - 12:23
Posts: 5868
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark

Often a reading of 0.015A would be suspect, due to specifications. I.e. a meter is specified as x%+y and the y is an absolute error, i.e. if y is 10 the last digit can not be trusted.

But when measuring current you also have to think about the "burden voltage", i.e. the voltage drop in the meter, especially when measuring something that runs at 1.5 volt (I did not find the specification in the manual for your meter).

Look at this curve from my review:

At 1.2 volt the current is 15 mA, but if you looses 0.2 volt in the meter the current will be 22 mA. Also remember that the current will depend on the battery voltage!

 

My website with reviews of many chargers and batteries (More than 1000): https://lygte-info.dk/

kreisler
kreisler's picture
Offline
Last seen: 4 years 3 months ago
Joined: 11/12/2011 - 23:32
Posts: 3992
Location: Deutcheland

thanks a lot! Well, the specs for the "0.015A" reading are stated as "0.015 A ±(1.2%+50)" on Low mode with an Eneloop cell@1.40V. This translates as:

max: 0.015 *1.012 + 0.050 = 0.06518 A=65.18 mA

min: 0.015 *0.988 - 0.050 = -0.03518 A= -35.18 mA

So the actual value from the "A"-setting reading is in the range -35.18mA < X < 65.18mA. Wow, that is not very accurate!

And for the "26.15mA" reading it's "26.15 mA ±(0.5%+10)":

max: 26.15 * 1.005 + 0.10 =26.38075 mA

min: 26.15 * 0.995 - 0.10 = 25.91925 mA

So the actual value from the "mA"-setting reading is between 25.92mA < X < 26.38mA. Now that's a lot better!

Voltage drop in the meter? You mean, I = U / (R1 + R2)

and Udrop = R2 * U / (R1 + R2), so i would have to measure the resistance of the torch ("R1"), and calculate I = U / R1, instead of directly measuring the I? Wouh.

 

Anyway, for the graphs and data you use an external power supply, dont you? Hehe.. that's in contrast to your DMM usage tutorial where you use 2 DMM's and the original battery in the photos (afaik).

 

I am just trying to reproduce your measured "15mA" from your table.. so for low amperage ranges the "mA"-setting should give better results.. but i cannot reproduce the 0.015A until i use the "A"-setting.

So which DMM setting do you recommend for Low-mode: the "A"-setting or the "mA"-setting? Thanks!!

*FMI* i got 4 i/o sh
HKJ
HKJ's picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 hours 45 min ago
Joined: 05/24/2011 - 12:23
Posts: 5868
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark

kreisler wrote:
So which DMM setting do you recommend for Low-mode: the "A"-setting or the "mA"-setting?

Generally I recommend that you stay below 1/10 of the full range, this will usual mean you have to use manual range select. On most meters this will mean less than 0.1 volt drop over the meter and you do retain a acceptable precision.

I you have two meters, you can use one meter to measure voltage drop over the other meter and also to measure how many volt that reach the light. Especially at 1.5 volt you really have to watch out for resistance in every thing (meters, cables, probes, etc.), a 0.1 volt drop is very significant.

You do not really need a specific meter, you just need to use it the best way and know what it is you measure.

For my curves I uses a computer controlled power supply and a voltmeter connected (mostly) directly to the light.

My website with reviews of many chargers and batteries (More than 1000): https://lygte-info.dk/

kreisler
kreisler's picture
Offline
Last seen: 4 years 3 months ago
Joined: 11/12/2011 - 23:32
Posts: 3992
Location: Deutcheland

Thanks HKJ!

i've completed my tailcap readings and updated the OP. My measurements with the "A"-setting are the same as yours. Out of curiosity i also included the "mA"-readings in the table -- they can be safely ignored; from the behavior of the light (brightness levels, modes) i could tell that the DMM consumes too much voltage at the "mA"-setting so that the mA-readings are all off.

Something interesting i found out: The MiX6 draws much more current from a NiMH cell (e.g. Varta Ready2Use) than from an original Eneloop cell, on High-modes. it also means that MiX6 regulates the High-mode brightness on an Eneloop cell but does not on a typical NiMH cell (nor on an Alkaline cell).

The only recommendable cell type for the MiX6 is Eneloop then!!

At some later point when i am bored again i will do several testruns to measure burn times on Eneloops.

*FMI* i got 4 i/o sh
budynabuick
budynabuick's picture
Offline
Last seen: 5 years 6 months ago
Joined: 11/16/2011 - 16:31
Posts: 842
Location: Michigan (US)

kreisler wrote:

neloop then!!

At some later point when i am bored again i will do several testruns to measure burn times on Eneloops.

I just did run time on a mix6(27 lm) and got 5 hr 35 min with a imedion 950. Yhe eneloop gave me 4. 5 HRS. Big difference! The IM cost the same as EN.

keith

marcl
Offline
Last seen: 3 weeks 4 days ago
Joined: 01/30/2012 - 09:02
Posts: 1780
Location: United Kingdom

 

Eagles may soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines!

MixoMaxo
Offline
Last seen: 3 years 8 months ago
Joined: 10/12/2011 - 15:18
Posts: 586
Location: Italy

good work kreisler but hell is possible that need half day to read any of your review? xD

and I'm sure, it will grown at least of another 1/4 xD

@marcl your is high-power spam coz when we all mark dudunice as spammer your post will remain... xD

kreisler
kreisler's picture
Offline
Last seen: 4 years 3 months ago
Joined: 11/12/2011 - 23:32
Posts: 3992
Location: Deutcheland

HKJ wrote:
But when measuring current you also have to think about the "burden voltage", i.e. the voltage drop in the meter, especially when measuring something that runs at 1.5 volt (I did not find the specification in the manual for your meter).

Thanks HKJ, the article and product description explain in detail that multimeters in the mA and uA range cannot measure the current accurately in low voltage circuits unless a product called uCurrent is placed in series (or parallel?):

uCurrent - A Professional Precision Current Adapter for Multimeters

Basically it means that miliamperage readings in 1.5V voltage circuits are very inaccurate without the 59.95US$ adapter. And obviously my readings in the mA-setting are all wrong. Even if the current is as tiny as 15mA, i am advised to use the 10A-setting of the DMM.

HKJ, maybe you could point to this topic with more poignancy in your article, so that flashaholics avoid the mA/uA-setting of their DMM in any case!

*FMI* i got 4 i/o sh
HKJ
HKJ's picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 hours 45 min ago
Joined: 05/24/2011 - 12:23
Posts: 5868
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark

David is a good source and is uCurrent adapter can be very useful (I have it). But in many cases you can easily get around the problem.

The idea is to never use more than 1/10 the range on the DMM, i.e. if the meter has a max reading of 1999, never go above 0199. On auto ranging meters you must select manual range to do this!

Most meters has a voltage drop between 0.3 and 1 volt at full range (Cheap unfused DMM's can be better) and this "trick" will reduce the voltage drop to 0.1 volt or lower. This is not perfect, but useful in most cases.

You also has to watch out for the few meters with more than 1 volt voltage drop (A Fluke is no guarantee for low voltage drop, I believe the worst meter I have seen was a Fluke).


Maybe it would be a good idea to explain it a bit more in my DMM guide, but it will probably not be this week (My main computer crashed last week and even a reinstall did not get it working. I hope a new computer will arrive later this week).

 

My website with reviews of many chargers and batteries (More than 1000): https://lygte-info.dk/

kreisler
kreisler's picture
Offline
Last seen: 4 years 3 months ago
Joined: 11/12/2011 - 23:32
Posts: 3992
Location: Deutcheland

Good luck with getting a new computer! Since your webpage is meant to be a guide, i would welcome a bit more explanation (or links to Dave's pages), e.g. with a clear hands-on example...

HKJ wrote:
The idea is to never use more than 1/10 the range on the DMM, i.e. if the meter has a max reading of 1999, never go above 0199. On auto ranging meters you must select manual range to do this!
...This i wouldnt fully understand because it is no clear example with step-by-step guide Wink

Hehe.

I am not sure if i have understood the above quote (contentwise) correctly .. so let me try to re-explain your quote in my own words from my understanding. I would certainly understand a text such as this:

fictitious text wrote:
Example1: The UT61E is an autoranging "22000 Counts DMM" which means that it has a max reading of 22000. Take this number and divide it by 10. You get 2200. The idea is now that any amperage reading up to 22.00mA is pretty much accurate. To proceed do the following: Switch to the (autoarranging) mA-setting of the UT61E. The display says "0.000 AUTO". Press the "RANGE"-button repeatedly and the display will change to "0.000 MANU" and then to "0.00 MANU". Leave the display at "0.00 MANU". Now do the tailcap measurement in this setting. If the DMM displays "37.48mA", then this is already above the aforementioned 22.00mA limit, which means that you cannot trust this number. If you measure "15.48mA" as displayed by the UT61E, then this is below the 22.00mA limit, which means that the actual true current is close to the displayed 15mA (plus a ±1% estimated tolerance) and you can trust this number. However, in practice you will notice that most Low-modes (and Moonlight-modes) run at 30-50mA, which are all above the suggested 22.00mA limit. This means that in practice you can almost never take advantage of the mA-setting of the UT61E but have to measure in the A-setting (up to 10A max, on the UT61E) instead. Fortunately, the UT61E has a high accuracy and when it displays "0.015A" then the current is indeed around 15mA (plus the usual tolerances as listed in the PDF-manual of the meter). You can verify this by switching back to the mA-setting, since 0.015A is below the 22.00mA limit. Due to the burden voltage and shunt resistor the DMM should display a value a little higher than this, maybe "24.29mA". Too bad, this is higher than the 22.00mA limit, which means that 0.015A is more accurate than the 24.29mA reading. Generally speaking, the lower the amperage in the A-setting, the more accurate will be the reading in the mA-setting. Another example in this context: In the A-setting the DMM autoarranges to "0.008A". In the mA-setting and its set "0.00 MANU" range the DMM displays "14.72mA". Since 14.72mA is below the 22.00mA limit, the reading is reasonably accurate. Now you have to decide whether the "0.008A" or the "14.72mA" is more accurate. From my experience the ..etc.. etc..

Example2: The DT830B is a manual "1999 counts DMM" which means that it has a max reading of 1999. Take this number and divide it by 10. You get 199.9 . Since the display displays 4 digits no matter what, i mean 0199. The idea is now that any amperage reading up to 0199.mA is pretty much accurate when you set the dial to the "200m"-setting (=200mA max), up to 019.9mA is reasonably accurate when you set the dial to the "20m"-setting (=20mA max), up to 01.99mA is about accurate when you set the dial to the "2000µ"-setting (=2000µA max). Etc..etc..etc

Maybe my text is wrong contentwise but it is an example of a text which can serve as clear guide, because it is detailed and contains 2 leading examples (DT830B vs. UT61E) with several sub-examples (37.48mA; 0.015A; 0.008A). And anyone who is new to DMM's would understand the logics of the measurement strategy. Some people/authors shun such detailed texts and prefer a concise style of prose but imho guides are not written to please the writer but to serve a concrete purpose: to be clear and helpful to the reader.

And that includes any kind of half dumb-a$$ed reader, even kiddos such as dinoboy  

*FMI* i got 4 i/o sh
HKJ
HKJ's picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 hours 45 min ago
Joined: 05/24/2011 - 12:23
Posts: 5868
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark

I do not like that kind of examples, there are way to much text and to few photos.

As for you first example. The problem is that your meter is missing a range between 200 mA and 10 A (As are most meters). There are two solutions to that, only is used the 10A range and use the digits you can get (The DMM tolerance will often spoil that), the other is to get a meter with 4999 or 5999 display.

In you second example I am not sure if you are a a factor 10 off? In the 200mA range you can measure up to 20mA without worrying about voltage drop. This 1/10 rule is not a on/off thing, it is much more gradual and depends very much on the meters. Using 1/10 is a good rule of thumb, but if you know the precise specifications for the DMM, you will know when to use it and when it is not necessary and when the uCurrent is the best solution.

 

Having a selection of different DMM's can be useful, because not all meters are good for everything, my four best DMM's all has different abilities. For some measurements all will do, for other measurements I need a specific DMM.

When you only have one DMM, you need to find the best way to measurements with that. Maybe using an external resistor for these measurement, a 0.1 ohm would work very fine, you would get rid of most wire resistance and have a resolution of 0.1 mA with a insignificant voltage drop at 100mA.

My website with reviews of many chargers and batteries (More than 1000): https://lygte-info.dk/

MixoMaxo
Offline
Last seen: 3 years 8 months ago
Joined: 10/12/2011 - 15:18
Posts: 586
Location: Italy

damn kreisler I advised you to buy a 5$ multimeter instead of that... xD

kreisler
kreisler's picture
Offline
Last seen: 4 years 3 months ago
Joined: 11/12/2011 - 23:32
Posts: 3992
Location: Deutcheland

MixoMaxo wrote:

damn kreisler I advised you to buy a 5$ multimeter instead of that... xD

i am not going to buy the 59.95$ adapter... xD

 

HKJ wrote:
In you second example I am not sure if you are a a factor 10 off?
well, i still dont fully understand the "1/10"-rule in the first place (because of missing elaborate explanations accompanied with examples and i am looking forward to your revised guide), so i am sure that contentwise my quote is wrong in many ways. i was writing off the top of my head and only guessing what you were meaning with the 1/10 rule of thumb. i still dont know if most of Example1 is factually correct (e.g. the 22.00mA limit).

strategic plan wrote:
Maybe using an external resistor for these measurement, a 0.1 ohm would work very fine, you would get rid of most wire resistance and have a resolution of 0.1 mA with a insignificant voltage drop at 100mA.

with a single sentence, no wiring scheme (circuit diagram), no math. equations. nobody could expect that everybody understands what the strategy/idea of your plan is Innocent

 

*FMI* i got 4 i/o sh
HKJ
HKJ's picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 hours 45 min ago
Joined: 05/24/2011 - 12:23
Posts: 5868
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark

kreisler wrote:

well, i still dont fully understand the "1/10"-rule in the first place (because of missing elaborate explanations accompanied with examples and i am looking forward to your revised guide), so i am sure that contentwise my quote is wrong in many ways. i was writing off the top of my head and only guessing what you were meaning with the 1/10 rule of thumb. i still dont know if most of Example1 is factually correct (e.g. the 22.00mA limit).

You example is mostly correct, but you take the 22 mA as a hard limit and that is wrong. The measurement error will slowly increase when current goes up, the 22mA (or 1/10) is a rule of thumb and not some magic limit.

The 61E looks like a very good meter for the money and I did order one to play with. At the current time it is at the custom office (They do probably not believe the price and are going to ask me for some documentation), but I expect to get it sometime next week and then I will be able to say much more about the burden voltage.

 

kreisler wrote:

strategic plan wrote:
Maybe using an external resistor for these measurement, a 0.1 ohm would work very fine, you would get rid of most wire resistance and have a resolution of 0.1 mA with a insignificant voltage drop at 100mA.

with a single sentence, no wiring scheme (circuit diagram), no math. equations. nobody could expect that everybody understands what the strategy/idea of your plan is Innocent

Would a picture from my DMM guide help (You can find the math in the guide):

My website with reviews of many chargers and batteries (More than 1000): https://lygte-info.dk/

kreisler
kreisler's picture
Offline
Last seen: 4 years 3 months ago
Joined: 11/12/2011 - 23:32
Posts: 3992
Location: Deutcheland

Ahh right right. I had forgotten about that picture and the maths. Was weeks ago when i last read your DMM guide. I think i had skipped that section because i dont possess any resistor (accurate resistors with strict tolerances cost money) nor alligator clips. I will look into buying the things one day..

 

Oh, you ordered the 61E a while back too? Yes, very well priced with DD discounts (thanks MixoMaxo!! Money Mouth). The documentation is a joke and i still dont know the functions of the buttons (and application strategy). The PDF is a short manual but not a dedicated user's guide. Maybe you can assess the quality of the DMM.

 

i will feel happy when HKJ evaluates the 61E to be a great DMM! xD

*FMI* i got 4 i/o sh
HKJ
HKJ's picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 hours 45 min ago
Joined: 05/24/2011 - 12:23
Posts: 5868
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark

kreisler wrote:

Ahh right right. I had forgotten about that picture and the maths. Was weeks ago when i last read your DMM guide. I think i had skipped that section because i dont possess any resistor (accurate resistors with strict tolerances cost money) nor alligator clips. I will look into buying the things one day..

 

A 0.1 ohm 1% 1 watt resistor is not that expensive. There is not reason for better than 1% when measuring current drain in flashlights, both the variations between lights and between batteries will be larger.

 

kreisler wrote:
Oh, you ordered the 61E a while back too? Yes, very well priced with DD discounts (thanks MixoMaxo!! Money Mouth). The documentation is a joke and i still dont know the functions of the buttons (and application strategy). The PDF is a short manual but not a dedicated user's guide. Maybe you can assess the quality of the DMM.

 

The documentation is as good as it gets for cheap meters (Or did you not get the full manual). Some more specifications would have been nice. When you are used to DMM's the buttons are easy enough to figure out. The yellow and blue is used to select the alternate ranges that has the same color printing at the switch. The HOLD can be used to freeze the reading, I seldom uses that. The RANGE is for manual range. The REL set the current value as zero and shows all values relative to that value. When PEEK is pressed the meter will collect max and min values.

 

kreisler wrote:
i will feel happy when HKJ evaluates the 61E to be a great DMM! xD

I will probably not do that, but it can be great for the money.

I do not plan to do a full review or anything like that, but I will do a fast check and post my opinion about the meter.

My website with reviews of many chargers and batteries (More than 1000): https://lygte-info.dk/

HKJ
HKJ's picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 hours 45 min ago
Joined: 05/24/2011 - 12:23
Posts: 5868
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark

kreisler wrote:

i will feel happy when HKJ evaluates the 61E to be a great DMM! xD

That did not work out, the result is less than great and the problem is the current ranges.

I did a full review of it here.

My website with reviews of many chargers and batteries (More than 1000): https://lygte-info.dk/

kreisler
kreisler's picture
Offline
Last seen: 4 years 3 months ago
Joined: 11/12/2011 - 23:32
Posts: 3992
Location: Deutcheland

I still feel happy nonetheless .. happy out of gratitude for your reviewing work!

Knowing the truth about one's product is more helpful than believing in something wrong Laughing out loud

THANKS SO MUCH!!

 

EDIT: i've expanded the bottom section of the OP with a mod. the mod was inspired by the genial construction of the DQG Tiny III which works with no rear spring installed. if you find the mod useful, please make me happy!!

(huh?? lol myself)

*FMI* i got 4 i/o sh
watchcollector1968
Offline
Last seen: 5 years 9 months ago
Joined: 05/10/2012 - 06:29
Posts: 35
Location: Oklahoma

Really enjoyed reading this. Amazed at how much I am learning from this site.

kreisler
kreisler's picture
Offline
Last seen: 4 years 3 months ago
Joined: 11/12/2011 - 23:32
Posts: 3992
Location: Deutcheland

an observation from today's DD shipments, 2 baskets full of MiX6's were dispatched (and a day later even more), not bad! i am wondering if the buyers were aware that the real Ti's are sold off (sold out) in DD's inventory and that only the SS's are shipped.

The webpage isnt 100% clear, it still says things such as "www.dinodirect.com/flashlight-klarus-mi-titanium-version-edc-aaa.html" and "TC4" .. but that's no more bait'n switch Wink

*FMI* i got 4 i/o sh