Questions about Fire Foxes FF5 HID

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Saul M
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Questions about Fire Foxes FF5 HID

First can anyone say what the lamp life is roughly? Need to get some idea as changing the bulb is not an easy swap.

Can this run off protected 18650s? Too much of a hassle to get unprotected by the looks.

Some have reported it steps down from high in 6mins, what I want to know is if you have the light fully warmed up in just low mode only, can it give any meaningful runtime when kicked up to high?
If not that would seem pretty impractical for search n rescue.

Ta

stone20003@163.com
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Hi, problem 1. HID bulb without filament depends on high-voltage breakdown gas inside the bulb to emit light. There is no filament in the tube, so there is no filament fusing, and the service life is longer. From FF1 produced in 2009 to FF5 now, no one has ever worn out the bulb. 2. FF5 battery should use 18650 power battery and flat head battery without protection. Samsung 30q or Sony C6 3 are recommended. FF5 has two gears of high brightness 100W and low brightness 40W. The highlight time depends on the ambient temperature. When the internal temperature of the flashlight reaches the temperature control value, it will automatically switch from high brightness to low brightness. Generally, the highlight time is about 5 minutes. Thank you. I’m the manufacturer of the Firefox flashlight. If you have any questions, please feel free to consult. thank you!

FIRE-FOXES FLASHLIGHT this is my shop on Aliexpress:https://es.aliexpress.com/item/4001256219250.html?spm=a219c.12010612.814...

Souichirou
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Saul M wrote:
Can this run off protected 18650s? Too much of a hassle to get unprotected by the looks.

If acquiring them via shipping is a hassle in your country have you considered venturing to a local vape shop ? most vapes run off unprotected cells and is a good go to for batteries in a pinch.
grin
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Only downside is 30q give roughly half hour run time but the light will give you and everyone around a grin.

stone20003@163.com
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Hello, FF5 has high power and high brightness. The 30q has a comprehensive endurance of about 45 minutes, energy conservation, and the capacity of four batteries is more than 40 wh

FIRE-FOXES FLASHLIGHT this is my shop on Aliexpress:https://es.aliexpress.com/item/4001256219250.html?spm=a219c.12010612.814...

Saul M
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Souichirou wrote:
Saul M wrote:
Can this run off protected 18650s? Too much of a hassle to get unprotected by the looks.
If acquiring them via shipping is a hassle in your country have you considered venturing to a local vape shop ? most vapes run off unprotected cells and is a good go to for batteries in a pinch.

Hmmm it seems they are quite common…my bad.

Saul M
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Thanks stone20003

Would be handy to have a 8cell holder i would think? More runtime without getting out some more cells out in the field.

nocturne
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Please correct me if I am wrong here!

FF5 in high is 100W across 4x Li-ion cells in series, which are nominally 3.6V each if using LiCo cells, so that would make FF5 a 14.4V light, and the nominal current draw ~6.94A

distributed across 4 cells ~1.74A/cell. <— apparently incorrect

What I am unsure of is if cells in series distribute amps across cells the same as cells in parallel. Also, using cells with a nominal charge of 3.7V would seem to lower the current draw… but shouldn’t the current draw simply be what it is regardless of the nominal charge of the cells used?

But either way, 10A maximum continuous discharge IMR or INR cells should also be fine for this light, and then you’re not as worried about over discharge as you should be with unprotected high amp ICR cells, like I am with my 30A Sony VTC4 cells.

I really want to know if I am mistaken here, so I hope someone that knows says something.

grin
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Voltage is inversely proportional to current. Meaning doubling the voltage halves the current.

nocturne
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grin wrote:
Voltage is inversely proportional to current. Meaning doubling the voltage halves the current.

Did I apply amps to number of cells correctly? I know when cells are in parallel, the amps are distributed. What I asserted is about cells in series. Is it the same with cells in series, each cell gives equal portion of the total amps?

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In series configuration each cell will see the same current load. The Ah rating is unchanged as well. The difference is in the voltage, it’s increased per each cell’s value. If you have 4 li-ions like your VTc4 in series, they can handle 30A, and the voltage is 16.8v fully charged. In 4P, the current handling is quadrupled as is capacity, but voltage doesn’t change. I am thinking the FireFoxes uses a 2S2P cell configuration.

nocturne
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Sirstinky wrote:
In series configuration each cell will see the same current load.

Unclear. In a 4 cell in-series flashlight drawing x amps, will each cell see
x amps or
x/4 amps?

Sirstinky
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It will be the same across each-each will see the same current. It’s not multiplied. If the flashlight draws 15A, each cell deals with 15A. Either way, multicell configuration is best for high currents.

nocturne
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Sirstinky wrote:
It will be the same across each-each will see the same current. It’s not multiplied. If the flashlight draws 15A, each cell deals with 15A. Either way, multicell configuration is best for high currents.

Thank you. My assumption was that total amps were divided (not multiplied) among the cells in series, as with cells in parallel. I greyed out the incorrect assumption in my first post.

So… where is this bad boy 15A flashlight? Cool

Sirstinky
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There are several single cell lights that draw 15A or more on turbo out there.

grin
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Put it this way a 30Q 3.6v and 3ah
4s1p (4×3.6v)x3ah=43.2watt hours
1s4p 3.6vx(4×3ah)=43.2watt hours
You can see that the lower voltage has to supply more current than a higher voltage for the same work. In series there is 1 current path so 1 current. Parallel there is multiple current paths so they are added together.

Photon Master
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Hey guys, this is the first I’m hearing about HID… so how are these different or better than an LED thrower?

Tempted to get the 4300K just for the novelty of what i assume would be a powerful soft yellow beam?

Thanks!

https://www.nealsgadgets.com/products/fire-foxes-ff5-hid-flashlight

nocturne
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Photon Master wrote:
Tempted to get the 4300K just for the novelty of what i assume would be a powerful soft yellow beam?

4300K is pretty neutral. If you want warm, you dip below 4000K.

Classifying color temperatures into warm, neutral and cool is somewhat subjective, but this bloggy thing does a decent job, quoting below:

krMLight wrote:
As the name implies, [a warm] shade of white offers a warmer feel to it. This means that the hue is softer and mixes some elements of yellow and red to the white shade. The temperature of this light ranges from 2800K to 3200K.

The second temperature is known as the neutral white light, which is around 4000K. This one mixes red with some shades of warm white along with cool blue. This one is more of a middle ground between warm white and cool white.

The last type is the cool white temperature which also happens to be the most glaring. This one has a very strong hint of blue to go along with the white shine. It has a temperature range of 5000K to 6500K.

Photon Master
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nocturne wrote:
Photon Master wrote:
Tempted to get the 4300K just for the novelty of what i assume would be a powerful soft yellow beam?

4300K is pretty neutral. If you want warm, you dip below 4000K.

Classifying color temperatures into warm, neutral and cool is somewhat subjective, but this bloggy thing does a decent job, quoting below:

krMLight wrote:
As the name implies, [a warm] shade of white offers a warmer feel to it. This means that the hue is softer and mixes some elements of yellow and red to the white shade. The temperature of this light ranges from 2800K to 3200K.

The second temperature is known as the neutral white light, which is around 4000K. This one mixes red with some shades of warm white along with cool blue. This one is more of a middle ground between warm white and cool white.

The last type is the cool white temperature which also happens to be the most glaring. This one has a very strong hint of blue to go along with the white shine. It has a temperature range of 5000K to 6500K.

That’s great info thanks! For years I’ve bought lights solely on raw power but now I’ve been thinking how nice it would be to have a light that’s bigger for inside the house, going for a walk… Noctigon KR4 in 2000K is incoming (:

nocturne
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Photon Master wrote:
That’s great info thanks! For years I’ve bought lights solely on raw power but now I’ve been thinking how nice it would be to have a light that’s bigger for inside the house, going for a walk… Noctigon KR4 in 2000K is incoming (:

That sounds incredible

Photon Master
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nocturne wrote:
Photon Master wrote:
That’s great info thanks! For years I’ve bought lights solely on raw power but now I’ve been thinking how nice it would be to have a light that’s bigger for inside the house, going for a walk… Noctigon KR4 in 2000K is incoming (:

That sounds incredible


Yeah!! I got an Emisar from Hank and it’s one of my favorite lights in my humble collection. Someone on another thread told me that he got some 2000K LED’s. If you can believe it, I’ve never seen anything other than 6500K, unless you count the red, green, and blue led’s on my Nitecore headlamp
Sirstinky
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Photon Master wrote:
Hey guys, this is the first I’m hearing about HID… so how are these different or better than an LED thrower?

Tempted to get the 4300K just for the novelty of what i assume would be a powerful soft yellow beam?

Thanks!

https://www.nealsgadgets.com/products/fire-foxes-ff5-hid-flashlight

Hid lights are very different. They use an electric arc as a light source, and the light generated is very intense, more intense than an led. It’s also very small, which is great for throwing light long distances. The color temperature is also excellent with properly designed lamps. The downside is the electronics side, as they are more complicated, and hid have a warm up period from turn on before the light reaches full intensity (up to several seconds).

Photon Master
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Sirstinky wrote:
Photon Master wrote:
Hey guys, this is the first I’m hearing about HID… so how are these different or better than an LED thrower?

Tempted to get the 4300K just for the novelty of what i assume would be a powerful soft yellow beam?

Thanks!

https://www.nealsgadgets.com/products/fire-foxes-ff5-hid-flashlight

Hid lights are very different. They use an electric arc as a light source, and the light generated is very intense, more intense than an led. It’s also very small, which is great for throwing light long distances. The color temperature is also excellent with properly designed lamps. The downside is the electronics side, as they are more complicated, and hid have a warm up period from turn on before the light reaches full intensity (up to several seconds).

Wow that sounds amazing! Warmup time is no issue for me. Would the 4300k or 6000k be best? I’m learning toward the 4300. I wonder where the best place would be to order from, based on cost and how fast I can get this bad boy USA

Thanks!

Photon Master
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How’s the HID bulb life? Can’t imagine I’d have it on more than like an hour a week max

Sirstinky
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The 4300k out of an HID is a little different than the 4300k out of an led. Not much. For the best you need close to 5000k as possible for the best beam color. Unless money isn’t an issue, the best place to buy something like this is China, where you can get a quality one for a good price. Stateside, if you can find one, good quality hid flashlights are really expensive, $500 and up. As far as longevity, the lamp will last a long time. In fact, if it isn’t abused or damaged by a faulty ballast, they will last years without degrading. I had HID lamps in my car last for 3 years easy and they’re the Chinese ones. Good quality drivers and ballasts make all the difference. A good bulb can be damaged or even underperform if not driven properly.

Photon Master
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Sirstinky wrote:
The 4300k out of an HID is a little different than the 4300k out of an led. Not much. For the best you need close to 5000k as possible for the best beam color. Unless money isn’t an issue, the best place to buy something like this is China, where you can get a quality one for a good price. Stateside, if you can find one, good quality hid flashlights are really expensive, $500 and up. As far as longevity, the lamp will last a long time. In fact, if it isn’t abused or damaged by a faulty ballast, they will last years without degrading. I had HID lamps in my car last for 3 years easy and they’re the Chinese ones. Good quality drivers and ballasts make all the difference. A good bulb can be damaged or even underperform if not driven properly.

Hey, thanks for the great advice! Do you think ordering from Neal would be a good way to go? I’ve bought a lot of stuff from him and he’s great. So… if you were buying, would you get the 4300k option of the 6000k? Those are the only choices from neal. Or should I buy elsewhere, maybe to get something closer to 5000k?

I’ll prob order the accessory package too and I guess I need to get some batteries. What kind are you guys using?

Thanks!

grin
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I like the 6000k better

Photon Master
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grin wrote:
I like the 6000k better

I did not expect that! What do you like better about it? Thanks for sharing knowledge with me
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I have the FF5 in 4300k. From my understanding of HID lights the 4300 is going to give you the highest output. I also the FF3, and FF4. This one blows them away in terms of throw distance and total output. It also seems to manage heat better than they did as well. Never had an issue with HIDs or bulb life. The main thing to remember is if you are running a HID light you don’t want to turn it on for a few seconds and cycle doing that. There are components like salts within the capsule that need to fully heat up and fully crystalize upon cooldown before being restarted. Sure it will light up but it may not be good for bulb life. But take not of the manufacture in the second post where he said no one has ever worn out a bulb from 2009 FF1 thru the present FF5.
HID take a bit more precaution when using due to UV light created and heat generated especially at the lens. But in a compact light, the FF5 is smaller than my ThruNite TN42-same height but smaller diameter head, it destroys that light in terms of output. TN42 is roughly 650K lux and 2000L, whereas the FF5 is 1.2M lux and 10,000L.

Photon Master
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This is great info thanks! Honestly, I was thinking of getting the 4300 even if was a little less power because I’m looking to get into non-6500K lights (my entire collection!)

What batteries are you using?

Would anyone suggest a different seller than Neal? I’ve had great experiences buying from him so I’m leaning in that direction

Thanks again

will34
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Thanks for the info, has anyone done a runtime test on the FF5 yet?

I’m interested in the heat management and how long can it be powered on the low mode using high capacity cells.

I sold my FF4 a year ago thinking that HID no longer could compete with LED but the FF5 is looking great in terms of performance for the size.

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