If you give a NON flashaholic a light which UI would you prefer.

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vestureofblood
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If you give a NON flashaholic a light which UI would you prefer.
3 mode WITH memory (High,Med,Low with memory)
63% (45 votes)
3 mode DEFAULTS TO HIGH (High, Med. Low defaults to high when turned off)
38% (27 votes)
Total votes: 72

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Unheard
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Certainly the memory UI when high would be the default mode. I presume most people want to press a button and have a reasonable amount of light. I’d even adjust it to medium.

Smile, you cannot kill them all.

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Hey Matt,

Did you miss to offer "DEFAULTS TO LOW" on purpose? Actually, I would prefer the light to start on low after turning off. But that option is not available so far.

vestureofblood
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Lux-Perpetua wrote:

Hey Matt,


Did you miss to offer “DEFAULTS TO LOW” on purpose? Actually, I would prefer the light to start on low after turning off. But that option is not available so far.

Yes. This is mainly to do with lights that are not for us. For me I know I would prefer the memory, but even this seems “complicated” to a lot of outsiders. The reason I didn’t put default to low as an option for this particular light is 30% of non flashaholic consumers would power it on and think that it was just a really dim light. It wasn’t until I started selling on amazon that I realized this. You can write something in a listing title, in the bullet points, take several pictures and make infographics about it, then put a set of instructions in the box, and still have hordes of people be like “Yep, doesn’t work”.

I given lots of lights to friends and family that were 3 mode with memory (or similar), and never really had anyone say it was a problem. However I am wondering how often they have trouble with it and just never said anything….

For another example I will use my father-in-law. He is a brilliant and capable man. A professor of psychology, award winning ball player, and a capable handy man (runs tractors, chain saws, you name it). When I asked him what modes he wanted in a custom light I was building him, he said “How about ON and OFF?”.

In Him (Jesus Christ) was life; and the life was the light of men. And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.
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LowLumen
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Yup, father in law is right; “how ‘bout on and off.”

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vestureofblood wrote:
For another example I will use my father-in-law. He is a brilliant and capable man. A professor of psychology, award winning ball player, and a capable handy man (runs tractors, chain saws, you name it). When I asked him what modes he wanted in a custom light I was building him, he said “How about ON and OFF?”.

Which is precisely why NEBO lights are so popular, OFF/ON, pull on the handle bingo, instant lantern. 99% of the people I show my lights too, especially andruil based lights, have zero interest.

A good friend wanted a light, was impressed how bright some of mine were. Ended spending a hundred bucks on a Fenix. Tail click off/on, and side switch to go through the 4 modes. Magnetic usb charger to boot. Never even has to take the battery out.

Also one of the reasons I want a simplified version of the LT1 with white and red combo for camping.

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I have a light that is high-med-low with memory. I let others use it a lot when I go camping. When I have let others use it they find it confusing. They seem to always expect two additional modes which either increase or decrease in brightness. So situations where the light turns on to medium results in a dimmer mode and then a much brighter mode, when they expected another lower mode. Or staring on low the light gets brighter but then dimmer. they seem to have trouble knowing what mode they are in visually and where they are at in the sequence. Strangely enough and from my limited experience, this seems far less prevalent in low-med-high with memory lights. I’m not sure why though. It could be my one light with hi to low order doesn’t have the best mode spacing and contributes to the confusion (I personally wish both low and med. were dimmer… and high brighter Smile ).

The second option seems ok to me. I think repeatability is key for non-flashaholics. So they know it will start bright and get dim from there. They’ll cover the lens with a hand, shirt, or just point it up or away until they get to low, if that is what they are going for. Very seldom is medium ever used.That’s my experience.

Hope that helps.
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1 mode , no buttons. single smash turns on and off.
so easy even someone living in 2020 but born in 1600 can operate Beer

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1 mode flashlight. Or perhaps a twisty to set brightness. Half presses are complicated….
A light that can use AA or AAA.

If a 3.7v cell goes into the flashlight then include cell and charger.
My personal limited experience is that most people don’t want to mess with charging. Just slap in a new cell and that’s it.
The middle ground is a light with build in charger.

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Rotating ring with off-low-medium-high and nothing else. Sofirn SD05 easily wins the simple UI contest.

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Low, high, no memory

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TexasToasted wrote:
Rotating ring with off-low-medium-high and nothing else. Sofirn SD05 easily wins the simple UI contest.
Rusty Joe
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You want something with two modes, a high and a low. They will set a hot light down and walk away or else not see something with “moonlight” and overdrain the cell. This is yet another reason why all lights need two switches, a separate one to control all modes.

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Yeah, NOTA for me, too.

Sadly, that’s why MLH-with-nomem is so popular with The Muggle. I got used to M on my (Xeno) E03, and rarely bap the switch for L or H, so I treat it like a 1-mode light. Also why I never got any otherwise nice-looking OnTheRoad lights.

Lights which default to H, eg, my big honkin’ Tacklife, heavily diffused, I also treat it like a 1-mode light, even when I don’t need full blast. I just can’t get all worked up to hit the switch a 2nd or 3rd time. Tired

As for The Muggle, I’d also push the magring selector like the Sofirn diving lights, even though parasitic drain can kill the cell if not “maintained” by The Muggle, so for that I’d also have to DQ any light with too much parasitic drain.

The SP10 I gave to my gf, she “presets” to M or so, so that she can just click it on/off and have usable light that’s neither too dim nor too bright.

I think she’s okay with her Cometa, but forgot if I left memory on or turned it off.

 

With one major caveat, one of the best lights for The Muggle is probably this 4×AAA LuxPro light, heavily diffused. Really nice soft-touch tailswitch, driver-in-tail so it’s just one switch which will take you to your desired level within like 4 clicks. Defaults to H, so it’s as simple as click-on/click-off, only cycles if subsequent clicks are within N seconds of being turned on.

Would take a 21700, but I’d need to add a tall spring to the driver first. Protected cell with built-in usb charger would make it perfect for The Muggle without having to worry about an alkaleak crapping the bed in an impossible-to-get carrier.

 

If you configure the Hell out of it, the SC31pro would be great for The Muggle. Turn mem on/off, set manual mem, whatever it takes, to kinda dumb it down but still let it be used in non-lobotomised form.

 

In short, it’s not so simple. And that’s why 2×AA Maglites are still incredibly popular.

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If I? 

I gave two non-flashoholics  FW21 Pro, that I purchased specially just for them, because they are very nice people and therefore, should own a very nice flashlight. This, so as to bring these nice people even more joy than they already have from life on earth. 

But, I did not give them the hot little screaming pocket rockets, replete with Anduril, until after I spent a few hours educating them about all aspects of it. Now, they are new, budding flashoholics!

It could be worse. Common dangerous pet animals don’t have antlers.

 

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Something like Biscotti is good for muggles. Most classic Convoy and Thorfire lights were good for muggles too.

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FIL for the win.

Boaz
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Boruit D-10 . King of the budget headlamps ...   just like a old lumintop AAA Tool starts on a medium mode .

You're right in saying people want light right now .. but all muggle mode type lights are actively turning them down for them .  So muggle start in med mode has to be a perfect answer .

 Like every idiot here I hated the thought of a med low high mode order but after using it for years it makes perfect sense and like putting the toilet seat down .. after you get trained . It actually makes sense . 

 

flu===sh 

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Lightbringer
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Boaz wrote:
Like every idiot here I hated the thought of a med low high mode order but after using it for years it makes perfect sense and like putting the toilet seat down .. after you get trained . It actually makes sense .

…until you get blinded in the middle of the night when you grab one that starts on M and not L (or F).

That’s why the only 2 I grab for at night are the ones with lit sideswitches, the GTmicro (level 1 for F) or the SC31pro (ditto), as I know press’n‘hold starts at firefly levels.

If I grab the Xeno, even in WW, it’s “Aaaaaah! Bright lights! Bright lights!”. Forget about going back to sleep after a blast of that…

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xxo
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Father in law knows best. On and off are the only modes non-flashlight nerds want or need. The AAA Mini Mag LED and the Mag ML25 twistys are pretty simple and easy to use.

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Again for Muggles all they want from a light is light . anything more is simply confusing . So you can start on a mode thats low and make them mad because it produces no light .. or a mode that has too much light and gets hot .. or you can screw with the high so it's no longer a high  and try selling that magic .  The d10 is a perfect example . you know what it's gonna do if you're a flash head .  if your a muggle it gives what you'd expect or need .. If you're a flashamatic  ya oughta know what the lights gonna do when you go click .

  The bathroom light is a motion detection light . it's one of the best lights I own considering how much work it actually does vs those 800 sitting on shelves all competing for shelf queen glory .

 The Miuja ? 4AA motion lights  we bought on sale for like 8 bucks rock ..  I have two and I wish I had 17.

 the e03 xeno even on a AA has no low . it's a great host remarkable design and reallyreally BAD with a 14500  because now the low ..ain't low ..no mo .

 I used a AAA tool Nichia as an EDC for years and M/L/H is perfect because 20-30 lumens of hi cri is damn delicious .(when you need a little light)..and if you know you want low you can click on and half click quicker than the time it takes for the electrons to  begin to move  ..It just takes talent 

the 2xAAA nichia 219B smooth head off the iyp365 put onto a regular tool is the simplest answer to getting a real sub lumen low too .. not to mention the light feels better too .. looks better, feels better ,works better .

Slickest trick in the book . 

 

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xxo wrote:
Father in law knows best. On and off are the only modes non-flashlight nerds want or need. The AAA Mini Mag LED and the Mag ML25 twistys are pretty simple and easy to use.

Right .. So you make one that turns on in a mode that a moron can't hurt themselves or anyone else with >> medium, and you don't totally hamstring a light for everyone else with their faculties . Something for grandpa to grow into after he's used the light for a year or more . That way it's a tool that  actually works .. Not just a junker light . other people with their wits ca actually appreciate the extra modes . High first seems right but ...Why either let it get hot ... or make high at a level it doesn't .. both thoughts are flawed .

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Wellp, the original (non-pro, non-B) SC31 was exactly that. High was 500lm and dropped down to 300lm or so after a few min. It was almost the definition of a gramma light. Couldn’t hurt yourself setting your pants or purse on fire if it accidentally got bumped on.

But I’m not sure if it sold all that well, being elbowed out by 9999999000lm “tactical” lights. Damned shame, ‘cause it was almost perfect for The Muggle.

The ‘pro is now 2000lm? Ouch. Gramma would set her house on fire.

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xxo
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Boaz wrote:

xxo wrote:
Father in law knows best. On and off are the only modes non-flashlight nerds want or need. The AAA Mini Mag LED and the Mag ML25 twistys are pretty simple and easy to use.

Right .. So you make one that turns on in a mode that a moron can’t hurt themselves or anyone else with >> medium, and you don’t totally hamstring a light for everyone else with their faculties . Something for grandpa to grow into after he’s used the light for a year or more . That way it’s a tool that  actually works .. Not just a junker light . other people with their wits ca actually appreciate the extra modes . High first seems right but …Why either let it get hot … or make high at a level it doesn’t .. both thoughts are flawed .

Some one who is “ a brilliant and capable man. A professor of psychology, award winning ball player, and a capable handy man (runs tractors, chain saws, you name it)”

doesn’t sound like a moron, or someone who doesn’t have their wits about them to me. I have had similar experiences with smart and capable people who are not into flashlights that just don’t want to fool with modes – for them simple utility is best.

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How bright is high?

But there are a lot of different people, and I think it boils down to two different kinds.

Those who can operate UIs where the button hold time affects function and those who can’t. Like, I’ve handed my Emisar D4 to multiple people some of which are computer programmers, but they were having trouble turning the light off because they held the switch too long and it went into ramping. They could get it to ramp up and ramp down, so they would just ramp it down and return the light to me while it was in moonlight mode.

I’m going to choose “defaults to high” assuming that means a physical switch with no hidden functionality and “high” is like 300-600 lumens. My SK-68 and SK-98 clones remember what they were in for like 10 sec, but after that it’s default to high.

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richbuff wrote:
I did not give them the hot little screaming pocket rockets, replete with Anduril, until after I spent a few hours educating them about all aspects of it. Now, they are new, budding flashoholics!

I’m going to make the wild guess that you’re actually a really nice person to be around and these people love you. If I try to spend 45 seconds talking about how to use a certain mode on my flashlight I get stares and rapid subject changes. Happened again when I stressed the importance of noting the two blinks when the battery was inserted and how important it was to REMOVE the battery and check orientation if the blinks didn’t happen. To most people, there’s a certain amount of complexity a flashlight should have and that’s it. Anything more is BS.

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Well, if we are REALLY seriously talking about non-flashies, then certainly any Dollar Store 35-lumen “9-led flashlight” in cheesy colors and a packet of 10 for $2.99 would do. If we are talking about having a nice work light for someone who wants a light that can be used, with that someone wanting something better than a storebought light, then it’s as I said. ^

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Non-flashies would be ok with merely 35 lumens. Really? t h i r t y f i v e? Cheezy colors? Seems maybe a smidge condescending. And what’s wrong with 35 lumens? I like a moonlight mode, myself, that’s even dimmer than that. But it’s OK, Maglite has their back.

“You know what the problem is with flashlights these days? They all brag about high lumens and how bright they are, but they only run for a short time before the brightness dims down. Heck, they don’t run that long at all, even in eco-mode. Well, not this one. Not the ML300L 4D LED Flashlight by Maglite. It’s got 1002 lumens and our patented LED Heat-Sink Technology allows for longer performance. On HIGH setting, it can run for more than 5 hours. The beam throw is 558 yards (511m). That’s more than 5 football fields!”

A single football field, the standard American measurement for something LaRgE would be impressive, but 5? Wow.

The 2D version has an Eco-mode that’s still greater than 35 lumens. And it lasts for 69 hours!(lol nice).

Mugsies like their flashlights, they just want to know what’s going to happen when they press their button.

edit: Welp, turns out Maglite’s full of shit. http://budgetlightforum.com/node/66854

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High with no memory for me.

But if I get to choose I’d go no memory default medium 500lm default with “hidden” double tap to turbo. A little like Surefire

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if i`m lending it and going to get it back before the battery needs charging then the Convoy M3 is good, 4 power levels and Off. if I`m gifting then I use old school flashlights (basic On/Off) modded with a protected 18650 and tripple led emitter, I ALWAYS supply them with a charger as well, and have a quick chat just so they understand what to do (it`s not rocket science) my 71 yr old mom picked it up pretty easy Smile

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Boaz wrote:

Again for Muggles all they want from a light is light . anything more is simply confusing .


I tend to agree with that, but that doesn’t rule out something extra.
Ideal would be, say, a 400lm light. That’s brighter than most ever seen or need.
No memory and it just always turns on at that level.
Unless they enter a hidden mode like long press for moonlight/turbo.
That way they have a simple on/off light with the potential of something extra.

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