Let's Talk Old-School: Incans Keeping LEDs Honest (Part II)

Last year, you guys may remember I did a post called Let's Talk Old-School: Incans Keeping LEDs Honest, in which I talked about LED lumen output vs incan output...

I wanted to follow up on the theme with tonight's revisited man of the hour, the Cabela's XPG 12 Volt Xenon 4 x cr123 old tactical light. It saw its share of duty use for sure, but due to its exposed tailcap causing accidental activation and 7 3/4 length, it got shelved for a while. Plus, it is a flooder, but has enough of a hotspot to get noticed, but not be useful at distances. I still pull it out occasionally, but tonight found that it needs new batteries (of which I have none for it). So, it will have to strut its stuff with just over half power--and it is still gosh-darn impressive.

I got this as a gift to myself at Christmas time of '06 and it has remained a retina-smoker, despite 6 years of LED progress. It is identified as the 180 lumen 12 volt light on the Cabela's site, but is the bonus turbo head option as pictured (rated at 240 lumens). I can't find the turbo head on the site anymore.

Cabela's reviews are here and the light is still being sold, though they've been sold out for quite a while..

http://www.cabelas.com/flashlights-cabelas-xpg-xenon-flashlights.shtml

This light equals or surpasses the old Surefires like the Devastator and other big-name incans. The police force came out to a call one night at a retirement home where I worked and I had the 180 lumen head on (not pictured) and we compared beams with their Ultrastingers. By a nearly clear margin, my 180 lumen had theirs whipped. I can remember saying to myself, what if I had had the Turbo head on that night? This clearly beat every other incan I've put it to with the exception of dedicated spotlights. And that has yet to change.

Below is my trusty Ultrafire C8 XR-E Q5 (250ish lumens I guess) and it is unleashing its fury against the tired-out XPG...

But just like Batman, the old dog is hard to beat!

And then comes the Coleman MC-E "500 ANSI-rated" light on freshly changed cells. I'll say the MC-E has the advantage, but when you go to light up the room with the dingy, green tint, it doesn't illuminate like the XPG does. Never really has. And remember, this old guy is at half power and shouldn't be able to compete!

And this brings up the question asked a while back--are ANSI ratings trustworthy? I know some of the most staunch reviewers on CPF have gone on record when the P7s and such came out that the most they'll give is between 250-450 lumens, and I'm assuming they were speaking out against the radical "900 lumens" claims we kept getting when these things emerged.

The standards seem to have changed and I've noticed it through the years. Surefire is still measuring their lumens as they always have, and apparently, like Cabela's were with these incans. And now, everyone seems to be jumping on the bandwagon of "it's the new emitter X, it's bad-@ss!"

I'm leary of doing so, and that kind of strikes against what we've been taught. It's not how bright a light looks that determines how many lumens it has, but what is measured, right? I want to beg to differ. Even with the rather wide margin of error of the human eye, I still say there is no substitute for that squinting discomfort that comes from a bright, bright light.

LEDs have come along and have so many advantages over incans, but do they really illuminate better? I can't help but feel we've been sold a bad bill of goods with some. Sure, it's nice to not have to worry about getting a light hot and dropping it and having the bulb pop, and it's nice to not have to spend more money feeding these inefficient gluttons, but I have found that the more power a light runs off of, the brighter it seems to be, regardless of "LED efficiencies" and what-not.

It is so hard to resist praising the new thing. It really is, and honestly, I've known few people who had that ability to look at a beam of light and say: "Doesn't look that bright" when I just got through talking it up. I compared the 120 lumen light reviewed in the first post against the Inova 135 lumen, and at work, against the Inova 170 lumen. They are all three a virtual tie (and run on near the same voltage). What gives?

Not that I don't love LEDs and relish having that above-and-beyond XM-L power that is much easier to produce, but those are a recent achievement, and that makes me wonder if our battles over the specs and output of the budget lights we praise go beyond those to the name-brands and still rest in some hype? If I don't get that near-primal reaction when firing up a light, I almost have to take depressing meds. And I think it should be so! lol

My general comments...

Yeah an old school Incan definitely can be bright. Surefire P91s with 4.1V (slightly under-charged) IMR cells can do over 400Lumens OTF. I have a MAG1185 (poor mans SF-M6) thats in the ~400++ Lumen (at least) range too. Incans loose out to LED though in the Lumens per watt efficiency game. They have their strengths and weaknesses just like everything else... but overall brightness is not an incan weakness. When you get into the big guns... 100W++ spotlights and PAR lamps (for example) Incan brightness is still pretty impressive... although it takes a lot of wattage to get there.

ANSI-Lumens versus real life Lumens. I have never seen a direct comparison in a calibrated sphere. I generally tend to ignore Lumen claims on any light... ansi or otherwise. I have always taken this stance since my first day registered on CPF. The exception has been Surefire. I have never seen an over-lumen rated Surefire light and many are under-rated for advertised OTF lumens.

LED technology changes so fast. Enthusiast forums always quickly rave over the various new LEDs... for their various strengths. Thats just the way it is, always has been. IMHO... You can't look at a beam and evaluate LED brightness (FLUX)... its flat out wrong to do so, because the effects of light concentration and beam pattern can throw off ones judgement. CEILING BOUCE comparison (generally) is the only way to compare one light versus another, without the effects of beam pattern concentration. So if you are comparing an Inova 135 Lumen versus a 170 Lumen, the former can very easily look brighter... if you are shining them across an area and just comparing beams.

I'm a incan guy myself but I still have to ask if you have tried neutral or even warm white leds? I find them quite pleasing and a good alternative when a big incan isn't possible to use. Keep in mind though that some warm leds are more like an incan driven on depleted batteries, almost brown. Hate them.

The best I've seen was a XM-L at around 6B tint (3700K), that one really could compete with a well driven incan in terms of tint.

My monster incan: Maglite 3D with 3*26650 batteries driving a 20W 6V bulb at about 55W of power. Hot and crazy.

My gripe is that ANSI is a well-trusted system now and everyone seems to be relying on it (if not you or me) and yet my Coleman seems underdriven. It's not what Surefire says 500 lumens is, and I know Surefire has a reputation for underrating their lights, which accounts for this, but to hold LEDs to a different standard of testing seems wrong to me. Illumination, of necessity, must "look" bright. lol It does no good to say: "This light doesn't look as bright, but tests brighter than x light." Then again, I've brought old incans to work and everyone said the incans look dimmer than the Q5s (or lessers) they squared off against. Maybe it's me.

And don't anybody get me wrong when I say I like my incans. I'm not reverting back--not now, not ever. An XM-L or other (properly driven) LED is the new thing and does deserve the praise it's gotten, and no, no old incan (including the ROPs) impress me like the performance LEDs do.

And yes, I expect talk of the new "thang" to go around. I'll happily jump in even. But it just gets to me to hear a video of some dude reviewing something like the X2000 and have them say it's "240 lumens" when it clearly isn't. Just eats me up. And ceiling bounce tests aren't clear indicators for me. I've tried and tried and I can't usually see a difference at all with nearly any light I test.

Haven't tried the warmer tints, but I plan to.