Test / Review: (OLD) Panasonic NCR 18650A 3100mAh batteries $11.96 Protected and $9.97 Unprotected (OLD)

benckie

Thanks for spending your time and efforts to enlighten us. I was thinking of ordering those batteries. Now I'm happily applying brakes :bigsmile:

Many thanks

Oh boy Oh boy.. I just ordered one 2 days ago...

(I thought I would have at least 1 really good cell with this to compare all my other 18650 cells to, but if this isnt the "king" I was hoping for, its a real pity...especially for the price paid... )

Wow. Very interesting. Thank you for taking the time to do a good review.

Benckie, if you'd dig out the Sky Ray 3800 triple XM-L thread, i tested the Panasonic 2900s in it for quite a few cycles. As you know, the light draws about 2.6A with freshly charged cells and then about 3A for quite a while before ramping up all the way till about 4.2A before low voltage cut. It consistently gives me 60 minutes tested multiple times. This is before the NCR18650A 3100s was released to us hobbyists, before Callies Kustom.

Compared to the XTAR 2600s, these are 53 mins. Solarforce 2400 are 50 mins. TF Flames about 45 mins.

This is in addition to the 1A tests i did on the charger.

Not sure what went wrong in your case, maybe need to rip out the protection.

Other cases include 40 minutes of runtime in a TK70 with 2 x NCR18650 2900s. (Pok probably would know because it's done by a Thai flashaholic) That is approx 4.7 amps of discharge, i measured 4.5 amps with the beefy 32600s which i measured 5300mAh @ 1A and mitro measured i think 4.5Ah at 5 amps.

benckie if your not sending back the batteries I suggest that you open the battery up to see if it is a real Panasonic 3100 and video it as proof. Do this after your tests.

Could it be that the battery uses a different protection circuit than the other NCR18650A cells?

The Benckie's results also show the batteries are original and new, since the results at 0.5A down to 3V is 2940mAh.
Panasonic NCR18650A are rated 3100mah down to 2.5V so if the test at 0.5A is done down to 2.5V the capacity will be 3100mah.
So there is no doubt the cells are genuine. I just took off the pvc of one battery in stock for you to see.

We believe the PTC are blocking the currents to be drawn from the batteries.


Hank I must say that's good customer relations.

Hank you are probably right. Maybe it's better buying the unprotected version.

Thanks for the clarification Hank. I am just curious as to the wrapper underneath. Why is it not wrapped in the original Panasonic factory wrap? The same as in this link?

That is not the original Pansonic wrap on the link you have provided. In fact none of those wrappers exist. These are industrial products not even Sanyo prints their name on the cells. Panasonic manufacture around 7-8 18650 cells. many not even listed on their website.

What I see provided by the Intl-O rep is the real wrap not what is not on the Panasonic website.

OK. Thank you for the clarification Hikelite.

I'm at work now, but last night after the second 3 amp discharge I did a slow series balance charge of both cells @ 0.5 amps, so tonight when I get home I will do a 6 amp discharge test as the batteries are, as a forum member was told the protection units will give 6 amp discharges.

The I will remove there dresses (wrappers) and the battery protection and do the tests again, you can see from the data tables one PCB is kicking in early and because of this it is showing around 400 mAh lower then cell A but cell A is discharging down to 3 volt

Im thinking the cheap IC,s (PCB) could be adding to the higher internal resistance results of my test, but in the other hand only one PCB (IC) is tripping early, but I will remove both, I was going to give these to my old man for his work light I gave him so by removing the battery protection makes them uses less to me.

I have noticed very small gains in battery test with the bsttery protection units removed any way i will continue the testing but it takes time my wife, daughter and work comes first.

Well, no worries about the "protection" part too much.

Go to www.youtube.com and search for Panasonic 3100mAh. xxllmm4 made a torture test video. Charged to 4.3V and dead short (same goes for the 2200mAh half-IMR CGR18650CH). Of course care must still be taken, just that....you don't have to worry excessively as long as safe Li-ion handling is followed.

Protection is important to me as giving batteries to an old man with a simple charger its a handy feature to have.

6 amp discharge test from 4.18 volt to 3 volt (protected version)

Cell A

Cell B

I did not bother taking a picture of cell B but you get the idea, Cell A tripped the protection @ 3.39 amps and Cell B tripped the protection @ 3.11 amps. Cell B was the cell that was tripping early is the discharge test's with its low voltage protection kicking in.

I have removed the wrapper,s on the cells, they are well wrapped, nice and thick

With the (IC's) PCB's removed from each cell i noticed the PCB's only have one mosfet this would explane not being able to draw high currents from the batteries, the protection kicking in early and them not handling high charge rates, a good battery capible of a constant 3 amp discharge needs atlest 2 mosfets and cell capible of 6 amp dishcarge you would expect to have three, my trustfire flames have 2 mosfet,s and some of the ultrafire batteries ive pulled apart have one.

I would expect the cell,s will perform better and give a slightly higher current tail cap readings as i have noticed this with other cells with the protection circuts removed, i belive the internal resistance test will improve with the (IC's) PCB's removed, but the unprotected,s might not work in all flash lights due to the small button top on the positive side of the cells and the protected versions are pritty long and fat.

Cell A discharged from 4.18 volt to 3 volt @ 3 amps (Internal resistance 103 milliohms)

Cell B discharged from 4.18 volt to 3 volt @ 3 amps (Internal resistance 98 milliohms)

That is much better double my first discharge test,s, what i was expecting around abouts with the first 3 amp discharge test, people dont buy the protected version as that was really disapointing.

Normally in the last four battery test i only discharge twice and recharge once, but these cell,s ive been testing on this post now have been discharged and charged around 5 or 6 times now, if i had done this amount of charging and discharging on my other battery test's might of got higher readings.

Im only going to test down to 3 volts as while not every one will agree with this, i feel thats the most usible voltage range in my opinion and most of the lights i have brought (12) but most dim and loose light to me around 3 volt under load or go into some form of low voltage mode include my multi cell lights and becuase i have tested all other batteries down to 3 volt during my testing so ill try and keep it even.

A bit of a recap with other cells ive tested to compare the mAh with 3 amp discharging to 3 volt.

Trustfire flame 2400 mAh battery test 2041 mAh average. Minimal battery voltage the cell can go is 2.75 volt.

Hi-max 2600 mAh battery test 2301 mAh average. Minimal battery voltage the cell can go is 2.75 volt ?.

Solarforce 2400 mAh battery test 2096 mAh average. Minimal battery voltage the cell can go is 2.5 volt.

Redilast 2600 mAh battery test 2401 mAh average. Minimal battery voltage the cell can go is 2.75 volt.

NCR18650A 3100 mAh battery test 2485 mAh average. Minimal battery voltage the cell can go is 2.5 volt (with no battery protection).

Tail Cap Current Draw Comparisons

Test 1 Ultrafire Cree T6 3-Mode Memory LED Drop-in Module

solarforce 2400 mAh (A) 1.67 amps

solarforce 2400 mAh (B) 1.67 amps

Ultrafire (grey) 2400 mAh (A) 1.23 amps (from buyincoins they only take 900 mAh)

Ultrafire (grey) 2400 mAh (B) 0.7 amps (from buyincoins they only take 900 mAh)

Trustfire Flames 2400 mAh (A) 1.51 amps

Trustfire Flames 2400 mAh (B) 1.50 amps

Redilast 2600 mAh (A) 1.70 amps

Redilast 2600 mAh (B) 1.71 amps

Hi-max 2600 mAh (A) 1.44 amps

Hi-max 2600 mAh (B) 1.45 amps

Panasonic NCR18650A (A) 1.69 amps

Panasonic NCR18650A (A) 1.72 amps

Test 2 TrustFire TR-3T6 Triple XM-L T6 5-Modes Memory LED Flashlight (3x18650)

tested with 2 x 18650,s

solarforce 2400 mAh 2.46 amps

Trustfire Flames 2400 mAh 2.51 amps

Ultrafire (grey) 2400 mAh 0.00 amps as they just tripped on high.

Redilast 2600 mAh 2.5 amps

Hi-max 2600 mAh 2.51 amps

Panasonic NCR18650A 2.38 amps

Test 3 TR-1200

tested with 2 x 18650,s

solarforce 2400 mAh 1.66 amps

Trustfire Flames 2400 mAh 1.72 amps

Ultrafire (grey) 2400 mAh (A) 0.00 amps as they just tripped on high

Redilast 2600 mAh 1.74 amps

Hi-max 2600 mAh 1.81 amps

Panasonic NCR18650A 1.61 amps

Previous battery tests

a link to my trustfire flame 2400 mAh battery test

https://budgetlightforum.com/t/-/4522

a link to my solarforce 2400 mAh battery test

https://budgetlightforum.com/t/-/4958

a link to my redilast 2600 mAh battery test.

https://budgetlightforum.com/t/-/5025

a link to my hi-max 2600 mAh battery test.

https://budgetlightforum.com/t/-/5082

My sugestion is, dont buy these Panasonic NCR18650A 3100 mAh in protected form untill more testing has been done, trustfire flames to me are the best bag for back and if you want some thing with well matched with low internal resistance and good protection spend a bit more on the redilast 2600 i feel they have the most usible voltage IMO or if you want some thing middle of the price range go Hi-max.

I would like to thank Hank from intl-outdoor.com for the good fast communication the full refund, i belive the seller and the cells are genuine, just a a pitty about (IC's) PCB's on my cells, maybe i was just unlucky but it would be good if more users could do discharge test,s above 1 amp.

Thanks very much for the detailed, time-consuming writeup.

no problem i hope it is clear and makes sence.

So does that mean others will get a refund or partial refund from Hank? I bought 3

Good question, i did not ask Hank for a refund i just sent him an email regarding my first 3 amp discharge test's and that i was an unhappy customer. I was going to do all test Hank asked of me, but i was fully refunded before i was able to post up any results, maybe post 66 was to harsh and it might of upset Hank me posting my results on here. I did not mean any harm, just disapointed with the first discharge results and the PCB's.

Thing is Benckie I also live in the real world regards batteries for business and pleasure torch use where they need to draw 2.8-3.0 A in a single battery X-ML and what capacity a battery has at a 0.5A or 1A load is completely useless.

eg. this is useless too,

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2x-Panasonic-3100mAh-NCR-18650A-3-7v-batteries-case-/300629230473?pt=UK_ConsumerElectronics_Batteries_SM&hash=item45fee60389

I use Multiplex chargers and auto shut-down drivers and for cycle life and actual recharge capacity recovered for a long term reliability the Sanyo and Samsung 2600 have never failed.

I am still waiting for a load of those MF TF 2400's to arrive to see how they compare because for me an odd 400ma for twice or thrice or more the buck ain't gonna happen when we can change a battery in 15 seconds and get way more run time:)

I scored some other stuff and ten Sanyo's off Hank and the bike light to checkout and my first thoughts are that the dodgy non-waterproof connectors will need sorting and then secondly how dodgy the mount and battery side of things is going to be down actual mountains, I've got some ideas for an alloy mount anyway..................but we'll see when they arrive, might use Li-po.

M.