Lithium–air battery, they could make electric cars practical.

[quote=Joshk]

Indeed, now that solar and wind are cheaper then fossil fuel plants the only reason to replace with dino fuel is corporate interests. And its the public who pays for that, even if we are trained to believe otherwise

This comment was not made by me.

The Grid wastes half the power generated in transmitting it over long distances. Reducing the current load by half will dramatically reduce power losses. To do that we need more localized power generation. Other ways to power transportation will undoubtedly evolve as technology improves and we obviously can’t just stop using fossil fuels in an instant either for power generation or for transportation but using it is a dead end since it’s a fixed and limited supply. Our needs grow with the population and the negative effects of its use accelerate with it as well. We need to get behind these alternatives and support them rather than fight them, criticize them, and denigrate them. Since fossil fuels are a vast but not endless resource the use of which is causing harm it makes no sense to pretend we can continue as we are. The incredibly vast arrays of pipelines, tankers, refineries, and fueling stations moving, processing and delivering crude were developed, built, and backed by the oil companies and governments of the world and took a hundred years to reach its present state. We will need the same level of commitment, investment, and time to replace them with something we won’t run out of and isn’t as damaging.

something has gone wrong with the quoting system, even on my post the name of the person i’m quoting seems to have extra characters in it

Transmission losses are unfortunate, but I don’t think the average homeowner can or wants to dabble in running his own power plant. Daily operations and maintenance is best left to a power company in my opinion.

Is this what Edward Snowden was warning us about? :slight_smile:

In Europe there are already community solar farms. For every problem there’s a solution. solutions are easy, it’s the negative mindset that’s harder to overcome.

If he is concerned with the BLF quoting system then we should probably feel honoured :smiley:

Transmission losses are based upon economics. You can dramatically reduce the transmission losses (increased transmission voltages, increased effective conductor size), but doing so requires a huge investment. The long and the short of the problem is that at the moment the Return on that additional investment (ROI) is less than the reduction of the cost of the losses that would result. BTW, it takes a very long, and poorly designed transmission system to lose half the power. The problem with much of the distribution network is that it is very old and is running at close to capacity, and just try to build a new EHV transmission line in this country. Remember that doubling the power through the transmission network, quadruples the losses unless you can increase the voltage along the way. That generally isn’t an option on a 345KV transmission line. Much of the transmission network in the USA is now operating at far higher average power levels than they were 20 years ago, and that translates directly into bigger losses.

OTOH, the thermodynamic efficiency of thermal generating operations (Coal, Oil and Natural Gas) is considerably less than 50%. There is far more ‘gold’ available to be mined from more overall efficiency in the generation process than there is from improving the distribution network. In general fuel cells are far more efficient than thermal generation, unfortunately the feed stocks for fuel cells are at present, much more expensive.

Anybody here building little solar panel chargers for our small electronics?
Something we can put on an awning or in a sunny window that will charge a little battery box, that will then trickle charge small electronics/battery chargers as power is available?
Ideally usable with one of the “USB octopus” dividers so it has plenty of ports where slow charging devices can be left connected and taken off only when needed.
Please, pointer, or start a thread.

Harbor Freight has some low wattage solar panels, but they are way too expensive for my budget!

The USB_output panel I bought cost $9 (brief half-price sale)
now shows $18, but these things are on sale here and there most of the time
http://www.dxsoul.com/search/901430335/onsale/1

Thin fiberglass back, no glass, no metal frame, nothing special.
That’s feeding a single-18650 no-name “power bank”
That has the port divider plugged into it at the same time
So far it’s keeping four little devices charged, I think they top up during the day and then get trickle fed during the night.
Equinox approaches, time will tell if this works through the winter.

I’m just hoping smarter people have done this better.
And that a sun-tracker for a tiny little PV panel like this might be tempting to someone.

>sidecross
Great! that’s the thread I was hoping for.

We do they are springing up all over the place as well as wind turbines both onshore and offshore , which is great,sadly they can’t stand on their own two feet and compete with traditional forms of energy generation , so are heavily subsidised - or they would never happen - by additional charges on everyone’s electricity bills for the next few decades, so whilst it’s good for the environment it’s not so good for the householder, especially the poorest who already struggle with energy bills.

Finally got time to reply, it’s been a busy Monday. Upstate SC has some stations (about 10-15% right now) with no gas and no delivery date… Lines are about twice the usual but not bad. The station I topped off at today (Anderson SC) had a self-imposed 10 gallon limit. I haven’t seen the filling of cans but many people are driving more, ah, gently to stretch their miles out. Prices have risen about $0.20 per gallon on average, Nothing drastic happening yet but this is not over. It’s a minimum of 2 weeks to fix the pipeline and maybe double that if they find more issues.

I have something of an inside source regards this, my sister does the gas orders for a local convenience store owner and has worked for several companies doing this so she knows people, and I get word of whats going to happen 24-48 hours ahead of time from her be it a price increase or a supply problem. I knew of the stoppage Monday AM but heard there was some kind of problem last week (which happens more than you’d think, but usually only affects prices). I’m already close to set for this personally with room for maybe 10 more gallons storage which I’ll take care of tomorrow, and that supply will last me 7-14 days according to where my work takes me. Plus I’m staying topped off every day in the work van, my living depends on it getting me and my equipment there and back and at a best of 10MPG there’s no room for slackness.

What the news isn’t saying is that the pipe had been leaking for a week before it was shut down and they knew about it right from the start but did essentially nothing for 7 days, Only when it got worse and became an environmental mess did they act to fix things and then they ‘discovered’ that it was worse than they thought. That company has a rotten record of maintaining their pipe systems and I would not be surprised if they find a lot more problems. This was a lack of maintenance issue; old pipes that should have been replaced long ago but weren’t. The Federal Government is now involved and they’re not going to allow it to be turned back on until it’s all been inspected, so it could be out of service for a month or two based on what the Feds want to see happen. There are alternate means of supply which will be adequate to prevent disaster but there might be some rationing needed. The main issue is going to be prices- you pay a $2.5K offload fee to fill your batch of tankers with maritime-market-priced fuel which already costs more than pipeline fuel, and now you’re paying for trucks too, so prices could temporarily double for us here before this is over. Pipeline fuel will go up permanently based on the extent of the repairs needed and how much that company gets fined over all this. Persons nearest ports will see less effect than those of us considerably inland. All fuel pipelines go down every few days- a bad sensor or valve or scheduled maintenance usually. That’s normally handled in a few hours so consumers don’t even know it happens, but it’s when large problems like this occur that we feel it and hear about it on the news. And nobody has resources prepared for things like this so it’s going from the start- ordering the materials after you figure out what’s going to be needed, and with the weeks delay of essentially ignoring the problem it’s two weeks at best before actual repairs begin. They’re laying a small bypass right now but it’s only about 25% normal capacity and at best that will take 7-10 days to build and government permission to begin using. We’re very vulnerable to major problems but most people have no clue of the reality. I wouldn’t know either but for my sister.

*tl,dr version:*We will get through this if people don’t panic but I’m expecting gas theft to rise so I’m upping the usual security here ASAP. I’d recommend those in affected areas keeping a few days supply on hand which will cover any interim between a run on gas and the government’s handling that adequately. Store it safely and don’t waste it, there will be gas but distribution may be spotty so if you’ve got a friend in the business stay in touch with them and keep your tank topped off every couple days.

Phil

Suprised by that I though it was still more expensive, it is here, sk if in the US power generation by solar is now cheaper than fossil fuel power generation - and I don’t doubt what you say - , why isn’t everyone in the US putting up solar panels, even if corporate intrests want to keep with fossil fuel power generation, if people on mass took it on them self’s to put up solar panels and or wind turbines that would effectively reduce the corporate intrest in building fossil fuel power generating stations.

Here lots of people do - even I have - but it’s far far more expensive than any dino forms of energy, if it was cheaper than Dino here like it is in the US I reckon every other property would have solar, especially with the prices we pay, so why isn’t the US doing it on mass ?

I ran the numbers for taking a home just like mine to solar out of interest. We use very little power in our lives except for the Air Conditioner and Stove/Oven and Microwave and Dryer. The problem I ran into even for our modest life is - what if all that stuff I listed is on at the same time? Your batteries AND inverter need to handle that. Maybe even during 5 cloudy days in a row. WOW. It gets expensive fast. But at the power-company level, even today, they have peaker-plants for that problem. Meaning extra diesel generators that can boost the output. This peak-problem is why going solar at a personal level gets cost prohibitive. So today, people that do go solar sacrifice the ability to run everything at once.

So it would be great if the power plants installed solar to just cover the average usage, and ran the old diesel generators when the demand rises.

The U.S. since 1972 has had an income distribution problem where only the upper 10% or less have had a growth in income.

I am sure those who have the income to have purchased houses and have an adequate income are or have utilized solar.

The oil producers in the U.S. as well as world producers can only see lost income with more solar and I am sure they are flexing they are muscle to keep solar energy from gaining strength.

What do you do with your solar power?
Selling to the grid makes sense, you make power, whoever needs it gets it. Most utilities hate that because it eats into their monopoly
If your going to go off grid then batteries, inverters and charge controllers will cost a lot. The source of that power does not make any difference. You can go “off grid” by charging with grid power off peak, gasoline/diesel generators, mice on treadmills, the batteries, inverters and charge controllers will cost the same :frowning:
So solar/wind feeding to grid makes the most sense economically and environmentally, but corporate interests Trump human, personal or climate change interests. Until we change our minds and vote for leaders who don’t believe in taking from society to give to the rich and powerful we will have these kinds of problems.