I would have voted 3 times, for the bottom three options, if possible. Just sayin. But I piled on the last option to help make that a reality.
jon_slider,
I want to remind you that there are at least a few NoPWM lights youāll want nothing to do withā¦ so specifying CC instead would be more specific.
Single-chemistry lights usually have slightly more efficient drivers. For example, my Zebralight SC5w (AA only) is about 10% more efficient than my Zebralight SC52w (AA and 14500).
Besides, with 1xAA lights now getting 500 lumens out of an Eneloop, thereās really not much need to go with 14500 cells anymore.
Sorry to add even more confusion, but for the visible PWM light we are assuming thereās at least one mode (usually its turbo) with no PWMā¦ correct?
For the AA only light we are assuming it also takes ~1.7V Lithium primaries correct?
Assuming its YES to both scenarios above I would vote for the AA-only light. ~250-300 relatively cool running lumens is more than enough for my needs.
Dual-chemistry boost drivers can have Li-ion low-voltage protection. The driver needs to disallow a range of about 1.8 to 2.6 volts. Several lights do this, including the Zebralight SC52, Armytek 1xAA lights, the Klarus Mi7 and that prototype Illumn was showing off last year.
As for PWM, Iām fine if itās fast, not fine if itās slow. Iād probably give up Li-ion compatibility rather than accept slow PWM in a small, budget EDC type light if I had to make the choice. I bring an 18650 light if I actually think Iāll be using a light though.
correct PWM is only used on dimmed modes
correct an AA light will also accept Eneloop and Lithium Iron (primaries)
however it is imho not realistic to expect more than 140 lumens from a single AA with a 90+CRI LED
if your goal is to have more than 200 lumens, you are getting into CR123 territory, or LiIon
thank you
apparently that was considered too large and too expensive for the Pineapple
Zebras dont offer 90+CRI, and they are also not constant current.
Klarus also does not offer 90+CRI, and it does not have real overdischarge protection, it just āautomatically lowers output levelsā. And Klarus calls their low of 5 lumens a āmoonlightā, I think they have an English language challenge.
Finding an AA light with constant current and 90+CRI is quite rare
I cant think of any ATM that have all 3 features: constant current, 90+CRI, AND dual chemistry.
I think it should be very possible to get a 90+ CRI light on a single AA (NiMH cell). Zebralight SC5Fc and SC5Fd offer 85 CRI and 375 lumen output on a single AA. Switching to a 90 CRI LED would certainly be able to output more than 140 lumens. I think the reason it isnāt offered is because there isnāt enough demand for it. Zebralight seems to think the sweet spot between high output and high CRI is the 85 CRI EasyWhite LED.
Even the lowly Astrolux A01 Nichia 219 does close to 90 lumens, on a single AAA cell, at ~92 CRI. Itās not asking much more from a AA cell. I have an old L3 L10 that does about 100 lumens using the old Nichia 219A at 92 CRI. Just swapping in a 219B should get it up to 140 lumens, and itās not driven hard at all.
Again, Zebralight SC5 does 535 lumens on a single AA. Manker T01 does over 400. Two years ago, sure, you needed to go with 14500 for that kind of output, but now you can do it with a NiMH cell.
I donāt see a need for 14500 any more. An Eneloop has the same energy, can deliver almost as much power, and does it way more safely, cheaper, and lasts for a couple of thousand charges.
Iād say it would depend on the quality/design of the driver as to whether a 14500 would be needed. Zebralight re-engineered the everyday driver to a highly efficient one to get high lumens from a NIMH.
Generic drivers require Lithium to achieve the same results.
500 lumens is impressive, but there are 14500 lights which do 1300 lumens (BLF X5). Li-ion also allows lights to be smaller since the driver is simpler. However, neither AA nor 14500 can sustain maximum output for long, since they just donāt have enough capacity for that. I generally only use them for 50 lumens or less.
Same here. A relatively small increase in size provides a 4X or 5X increase in capacity, while also eliminating driver complexity and making it much easier to do custom stuff. 1x18650 is a sweet spot. Some would even call it a āmaster raceā.
Lithium iron primaries meaning L91 lithium AA (Li-FeS2)? Yes, AA lights generally work from about 0.9V to 1.8V, to cover the range of NiMH, alkaline, and lithium AA cells.
Or lithium iron as in LiFePO4/LiFeMnPO4? Adding lithium iron (phosphate) to the mix makes it a dual-voltage driver; it would need to support the 2.8V to 3.6V range. Adding common lithium ion also would require supporting ~2.7V to 4.4V. Those two arenāt so bad, since thereās still a gap between 1.8V and 2.7V which could be used to detect cell type for LVP.
Or lithium primaries as in CR123A? Adding CR123A to the mix makes things much harder since it can operate from like 1.0V to 3.6V. This mostly breaks cell auto-detection and LVP. Itās the reason I donāt get LVP on my Olight S10/S1/S-Mini. Iād rather have LVP than have CR123A support.
Zebralight offers lights with 90+CRI. For example: SC600Fd MkIII+
Nearly everything theyāve ever made uses constant current drivers, with some of the best efficiency and most stable output on the market. Sure, some levels oscillate quickly between two constant current levels to get an intermediate level, but other levels are truly constant.
I may not care much for ZLās host aesthetics, UI quirks, tint choices, mod-unfriendliness, or priceā¦ but they typically lead the pack for driver technology.
Iām fine with non-visible PWM, but if the PWM is visible, Iām going for AA and no PWM. Lithium compatibility is nice, but itās not worth tolerating visible PWM for.
I donāt think this is true, with the latest emitters and brightest flux BINs there are 350L capable lights from just a single eneloop. My TH20 headlamp does ~230-250 and its not a barn burner at all, its more about cool running efficiency.
an observation about the poll, flawed though it is
as of today
51 people would buy dual chemistry with NoPWM
10 people would buy dual chemistry with YesPWM
from this I conclude that the Pineapple has only captured 16% of the polled market for a dual chemistry AA/14500 light.
This suggests that NoPWM is a more limiting Sales variable overall, than dual AA/LiIon compatibility
An Mi7 wouldnāt lose much going from an XP-L HI V3 to a 219C D320, but those only guarantee 70 CRI. If the limiting factor is the input current, it might lose nothing at all since the 219Cās forward voltage is lower. The 219Cās beam profile is nearly as throwy as the XP-L HI as well.
Higher CRI and warmer tint, however both usually require giving up some output, and the 90 CRI, 4000K 219C used in the Pineapple has a Flux bin of D240, which only has 75% of the brightness of the D320. Note that this would still be about 250 lumens.
The Mi7 could have about 420 lumens if it used an XP-L HD W2.
I disagree. 14500s have their advantages over AA in certain situations. Camping/backpacking is one. If you are out in the middle of nowhere, it is MUCH easier to charge Li-Ion with a solar panel than it is NiMH. For one, since solar charging is often at low current, a charge at a given current (like .5A) puts energy on a Li-Ion cell about three times faster than NiMH (due to the higher voltage). This means that it takes MUCH less time to charge a battery of a given energy content (or, looked at another way, more runtime for a given amount of time on the charger). Also, because Li-Ion terminates based on voltage, there is less of an issue with termination than with NiMH with less than steady power sources (like solar panels in certain situations). Finally, 14500s are lighter than AA, which reduces pack weight (although 18650 would be even better here).
Another issue here is that, although the SC5 CAN produce 500 lumens from AA, it just doesnāt do a super good job at it. The SC5, for instance, will only produce 500 lumens from good quality cells that are fairly new and at a fairly high state of charge. It just doesnāt take much before a cell cannot support the 500 lumen turbo, and the light dims rapidly while it can be sustained. In other words, 500 lumens on a single AA is somewhat more gimmicky than truly useful. But 500 lumens on a 14500 is MUCH more sustainable.
Iāll agree with you on all that, partially. While 14500 allows you to charge them more easily than NiMH, if youāre going for energy density and weight, 18650 is a far better option than 14500. So I think the real comparison when backpacking is between AA lights and 18650 lights, not AA vs 14500.
But, yes, if your only choice is between carrying a bunch of 14500 cells or carrying a bunch of AA cells, then you should probably choose the lighter option and go with 14500.
For regular everyday use, I still think thereās no advantage for 14500 over quality AA cells (like Eneloops).
I donāt agree. If you look at Selfbuiltās output graphs on the SC5, youāll notice that it has very flat regulation until it drops down to medium after about 45 minutes. There is the 3-minute step-down in output that is programmed into the light, but that is the case regardless of battery chemistry. Itās designed to stop the light from over-heating. The SC52 on a 14500 cell (again 500 lumens), steps down after 1 minute.
I havenāt noticed any issues with the SC5 losing output when I use Eneloops many years old. It seems to be fine, until the cell is almost drained.
A couple of years ago, it used to be the case that max output couldnāt be maintained except on fresh cells. For example, my SC52ās on an Eneloop only give their 280 lumens max output for a few minutes, before it slowly drops off to about 200 lumens for most of the run-time. For that light, 14500 clearly has a benefit, as it maintains a solid 280 lumens for the entire run-time after the 1-minute step-down.
I think Zebralightās driver for the SC5 solved that problem. I can get a little over 20 minutes of 500 lumen output (by turning it up again after the 3-minute step-down), on a regular 1900mAh Eneloop. And, unlike with lithium-ion, I never have to worry about the light shutting off due to low voltage protection. On a drained Eneloop, it will continue to run on low levels for hours, without damaging the battery.