2100, I feel with an aspheric lens there is a bigger loss than 10%, it is said it can be about a 10% with a common glass, but the thicker it is the more losses you will have.
It is your fault, I will end buying the DBS head to play with it, it is difficult to believe with a big hotspot like that you can throw it 600m, I understand it can win the masterpiece pro-1, there is more than one parameter to achieve a greater distance, and in this case, it might be how good the lens is designed in terms of the angle, the lens quality itself etc, but I think on a same lens quality it should always throw further the smaller hotspot it has.
Just one more thing, did you have the chance to play with the flydragon MS2010 aspheric to compare?
Maybe so, but if it's good quality glass it can reach ~ 10% range or even below. Even the normal achromatic telescopes or photographic lenses with very thick lenses do not cut that much. Lenses is not the same as glass.
Ok, just to set the record, i just measured it and it is about 16% cut. With and without lens measurement via bounce. It's probably not very accurate but just take it as a ballpark figure.
The CSM-360 Flydragon does not have enough surface brightness nor is the lens big w.r.t the big-ass emitter enough to out-throw this.
Ok, maybe let me break it down for you. We calculate distance via measurements. With 90k cd (very conservative figure measured at 55 metres), it is 300m @ 1 lux amd 600m @ 0.25 lux. The latter would be the ANSI standard. There is no guesstimation, hotspot size does not enter the equation. I am measuring at 55 metres, not at 5 metres, not even at 10m which most would tell you "hey, that's far enough for throwers". I use the same distance for my > 1 million cd throwers. Tatjamagic said there is a difference in the lenses themselves even, some give a lot of chromatic abberation (the purple fringing around the spot) and some less.
I posted these pix in my HID big host thread but didn't post the pix in this thread, here goes. 400m target. (Sorry for the light pollution, can't help it man)
The quality of the lenses is a lot, if we compare the lens of a telescope or a photographic lens that costs more than the whole flashlight, it might not be so fair, and the good photographic lenses have a really big diameter when they got a big zoom, or there are big aberrations on them otherwise.
I am not saying I do not believe the measurements you made, in fact as I said I am very tempted to get one DBS for your fault haha, it is just I like discussing about it to find out the reason it is performing so well to you.
I was told by a friend who has the Flydragon's head with an SST-90 DD with 26650 MNKE it throws close to the 1000m distance, but I cannot assure it as it has not been in my hands to prove it, nor there are luxometer tests at big distances as you made to compare.
The Flydragon head is just 80mm, with the SST-90 in direct drive mode of about up to 15 amps and with direct copper to LED bonding it is possible. 1000m is out of this world. You need 250k cd to do that for the target at 0.25 lux. If you look at CPF mod section there are very few folks who manages to do that, namely ma_sha, Saabluster and a few others, with huge lenses.
This is with a 110mm lens, SST-50 driven to 9 amps, copper heat sink with active cooling.
But with a 7 x50 bino (some light amplification) and a really dark site like in the desert, light at least 15m away to the right or left from the observer and a good target, eg a silver car, it is possible even with 100k cd @ 1000m. But that is not realistic.
In fact i rate my 3.8 million cd light to be good at 2km. That is 1 lux at target.
66mm lens with XM-L driven hard gives you 100k, that's the ballpark of this Dereelight DBS aspheric light. :)
Actually you could get even more lux with the XP-C driven to 1A
The die is 0.7mm x 0.7mm. EZ900 die XR-E R2 is 0.9mm by 0.9mm. EZ1000 XR-E R2 is 1.0mm by 1.0mm. The beam is quite narrow, so it is not useful even at 100m (handshake, causes the beam to dance around at target)
Thanks for the info 2100, I will ask to get some luxometer tests for the Flydragon head and SST-90, which I believe it was driven at 10A.
My plan as I thinks said before, is making a flood to throw with the DBS with an XM-L, by the time I get it I hope I can get a U3 (they are just about to be released).
With an XM-L U2 and a 38mm lens I got, I have managed to get around 400m throw "by eye" , do you feel the DBS will throw further than 400m with an XM-L?
I happen to have the T6 3C neutral white pill which has the same output as regular cold-white T6. I measured close just a wee bit over 50k for that. So that's about 450m throw for 0.25 lux. I guess you live at a really dark site plus you had dark-adapted eyes.
Sounds good, what I do not know is if 0.25 lux is visible by eye to know more ore less what is the difference.
Don´t tell me why I have ordered the Ultrafire T8 with two lenses from Manafont, I don't feel it will win any of these throwers, but I wanted to give it a try as it is a new concept for me.
0.25 lux is just barely visible to the naked eye at a dark site. In an urban environment, it is very difficult to see but not impossible on a total white or metallic silver surface. My external ambient is about 0.05 lux.
Sorry for being a pain 2100, I am like a 6 years old boy asking why are the clouds white.
Do you know the focal length for the DBS?
I feel it is also a parameter that can make a difference, and more with XM-L and its bigger emitting angle, the less focal length (the closest the die is to the lens) the more light it can throw as it will not hit the walls of the head.
I know the CL1H v4 and DBS tube are compatible with STL-V6 head. And Ultrafire U80 and Ultrafire C8 is compatible with STL-V6. You can search in this forum, i posted some pix and another guy also posted his C8/STL-V6 combo. It is used to get an ultra-short STL-V6.
However, i am sure you can never get it to work in the DBS head housing because it is slight smaller. Besides the focal length is different.
I read that the head collimates a wee bit better and gets you more lux. It's nearly 100k for the current DBS EZ900 aspheric and 120k for the Tiablo A9 modded with a R2 EZ900 (and it is extremely difficult or rather literally impossible as it is glued to the die, you need to screw and lever and knock it out). Stock Tiablo A9 that WAS being sold last year gets you about 90 plus K cd. Note the word "WAS".
But do note, though the CL1H v4 uses P60 style drop ins, it cannot work with Ultrafire P60s with the external spring and you need to take it out. So i guess the threading is identical.
Not sure how are you able to get a Tiablo A9 currently.
Another option is the Lumapower Ultra VX with Turboforce reflector head. Not sure how can you swap in the EZ900 pill as i am not sure how does it work, but it gets 90+ K cd as well with EZ900. Stock is already 70k cd. Not cheap also.