Thanks for the tip but after reading the test on the opus I m not convinced. Tbh i don’t understand it all to wel but i don’t like the current spikes it takes from the ps. And at $40 i would expect something better. If i would cash out €80 for 2 i think I would be better off going for the mc3000 instead and take my time for testing. But now I m thinking a hobby charger for charging and an opus or liitokala for discharge testing multiple cells at a time. But as I understand it the lii doesn’t do discharge test, it gives capacity after recharge or did I mis something.
Edit: keep in mind that I ll hook em up to a 12v batt most of the time and I don’t know how they will handle the current spikes. These are NOT car batteries which can handle a high initial current draw.
That current spikes was only present in the earliest version of the v2.0.
The 2.0 version had initially inflated ‘Charge’ figures (not in the more important Discharge figures), and was initially ‘cured’ by a higher amperage ps, but a resistor was added to the succeeding versions (middle production run of the 2.0, then the 2.1, that even with the same 12v, 3A since the beginning, good accuracy was attained, up to now with the 2.2 version.
And by the way, I also have the MC3000.
” But as I understand it the lii doesn’t do discharge test, it gives capacity after recharge or did I mis something.”
The Liitokala Lii_500 engineer has 2 capacity tests “Fast” & “NOR” (normal).
In “NOR” mode it fully charges the cell, fully discharges it measuring capacity then fully recharges the cell.
In “FAST” mode it discharges the cell then charges it measuring the ma required to fully charge the cell as the capacity.
The “NOR” test is more accurate than the “FAST” test as the “NOR” test is measuring the ma the cell can discharge from fully charged where as the “FAST” test is measuring the ma the cell takes to become fully charged which will be more than the actual ma the cell can discharge.
I have several analysing chargers for cylindrical Li-ions including the Lii-500 & Opus & the Lii-500 is my preferred charger.
I have found a far more useful “Internal resistance” test for me to be very simple.
I have a load (in my case an old dust buster that pulls a hefty amount of current). I then put the cells in my cell holders with built in volt meter and connect them to the load.
I watch the voltage and then sort them according to how much voltage they are able to maintain under load. This applies very well to flashlight use.
For example a 30Q might hold 3.5V and HE2 3.6v and a GA something like 3.3v.
Most salvaged cells end up in the 2.6-2.8V range with a few getting close to 3V and a lot under 2.6V (where the volt meter doesn’t work anymore.
Anything over 2.6V I keep around, over 2.8V I put into regular use as long as they do not get warm when charging or self-discharge.
Under 2.6V goes into my “wait and see box”. They all go in fully charged (already tossed the one that got hot during charging). After say 6 months any that are still holding a good charge with minimal self discharge get saved for low drain projects, all the ones that self discharged significantly get recycled.
I have ended up with something like a 10-15% success rate for usable cells, 20% low drain reserve cells and the rest are bad in my experience. Overall if you have to pay much at all for used battery packs, it is best to pass. Now new old stock is great on the other hand.
Now I have been waiting to get a constant load source so I can test the cells a bit more precisely but have not had the funds to get one.
Yes, I do this too, but instead of the cell holders with a volt meter, I use my Zebralight SC600, put in Turbo mode. This light, with a ‘healthy’ cell will go on Turbo for exactly 5 minutes then steps down to High.
Tired cells (meaning high ir) steps down the Zebralight a lot less than 5 minutes, really tired cells just for seconds.
That works too, I am just too impatient to wait 5 minutes for each cell test, I prefer 5 second per cell lol.
Course things are a bit different when you have ~100+ cells to sort through at a time vs 10.
Your way is a lot less time consuming, I should say…never got to think about it before…but after I got my iCharger, and, after Li-ion cells got a lot cheaper, I never bothered with the salvaged cells anymore.
Do u get the capacity measurement after the discharge or do u have to wait until the cells are fully charged again? Point beeing that I charge like say 6 or 8 cells with hobby charger do a norm test on the lii but cut it short when I get the read out and pop in the the other 4 cells to test capacity and rechargr the just tested cells again with the hobby charger.
Is the capacity which a cell can hold in direct correlation with the Ri or are the 2 independent of eachother. Point beeing if I know the Ri is still low enough I would have no need to know the exact capacity a cell can hold and I could go TAs way, then I would have no need for capacity test.
You get the capacity figure as soon as the discharge has finished so yes you could pull the cells then & charge them up in something else & IR is shown during the test anyway, both in the charge & discharge cycles.
Yes generally a cell with high IR will not have good capacity.
The Lii-500 also shows IR when you are just charging a cell (not in capacity test mode) so you know the IR of a cell from normal charging.
You can get the Lii-500 for around $20-$25 sometimes as low as $15 when a deal is on so you could buy 2 :+1:
I really like them (I have 2 plus 8 of their smaller non analysing chargers 6 x Lii-100 & 2 x Lii-202) & prefer them to my Opus & MiBOXER C4 analysing chargers & also prefer them to my pair of Nitecore D4”s.
To test IR cheap meters are rubbish. I use a Hioki 3554, takes a second a cell and the meter is calibrated UKAS standards.
Readings are auto recorded and you can trend cells which is at least as important as the single reading itself.
But that Hioki 3554, although obviously very accurate, is about £2,000 isn”t it ($2,500).
The OP said “My budget is around $50 but I wouldn’t mind paying more (even double that) if it’s really worth it”
Yeah right 900 + to test a few salvaged celss rofl. Then what s the point in salvaging cells. I hope for your sake u use it in a prof setting. Thx for the input though
It was an example of not using a cheap meter, they are not consistent. I don’t use it commercially but I know people who do so I aquired it cheap, they would use cheaper meters if any were avalible that were any good.
The discharge test TA uses is probably better than any cheap IR meters.
Hey man I m sorry, I see now that my post is a bit condesending if that s the right word
My Hobby Charger recommendations:
or
or
Only 50 Watt!!
http://www.skyrc.com/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=200
or
50 watt
80 watt
I use 1S4P Unprotected 18650 cell holders wired up so I can Balance charge my cells (Parallel Connected).
http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-PCS-4-x-18650-Li-ion-Battery-Clip-Holder-Case-Box-8-Pin-Contact-/121457151980?\_trkparms=aid%3D111001%26algo%3DREC.SEED%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20140813130114%26meid%3Db99cc93b5ae4429aa220eb2f73f042d0%26pid%3D100262%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D4%26mehot%3Dpp%26sd%3D121457151980%26clkid%3D4942104528337088887&\_trksid=p2047675.l2557&\_qi=RTM2067267&nma=true&si=q3O03D51sYJG8Zr2ntSU%252BzYPqOA%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc
Wiring Harnesses I use:
For Balance port: I use the 4S one so I can Balance charge.
It is also very important to store the cells at the recommended OEM Storage Voltage. For most it is 3.8vdc.
I use this to discharge mine. Simple and works great.
I rig up 18650 cell holders in order to accomplish it.
You will also need a good DC power supply for it capable of an Input voltage: 11~28V DC for the 300 watt Reaktor. I set my up at 13.8vdc. Don’t forget you need one that can supply the amperage required as well.
I use a Server Power Supply I converted for it.
Lot’s of info here:
https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread….-Power-Supplies
http://www.tjinguytech.com/my-projects/server-ps
Some for sale already converted:
Some good reading here on Hobby Chargers and Server Power Supplies.
Bill
For most hobby chargers you can salvage old laptop PSUs
One has to look at what their current and future charging requirements are and choose a power supply accordingly. I would suggest choosing a power supply with more power capacity (wattage) than needed since most of us always underestimate what we really need. This would also ensure you were set for all future charging needs.
LapTop power supplies would be under powered for my needs since they are under 100 watt.
Good Information Here on choosing a charger and Power Supply:
http://www.tjinguytech.com/charging-how-tos/wattage-for-charging
http://www.tjinguytech.com/charging-how-tos/shopping
Converting PC Power Supply
http://www.tjinguytech.com/my-projects/convert-pc-ps
Bill
It is very hard to overpower a laptop power supply charging 18650’s since you will be charging them in 1S parallel and most chargers max out around ~10A of current that means the max wattage it would need is less then 50W.
My laptop power bricks vary between 65w and 90w which is more then enough.
Oh my old laptop PSUs are all 120W
Gaming laptops of course
For the 50 and 80W hobby chargers a not gaming laptop PSU is strong enough
For those 300W chargers a good 500W PC power supply should be fine, they should deliver 300W 12V
I Balance charge all my 18650 cells. This requires that they be charged in series. Works well for my needs.
Bill