Nichia 219c tint

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Yokiamy
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Nichia 219c tint

Hi all
Today i modded my S2+ with a 219c 4000k on dtp from kaidomain Modding was really easy and i am very happy with the result.
The only thing which is not clear tot me is the tint. Compared with the reylight pineapple which i thought was 4000k as well, the color looks more yellow then expected. Could you tell why the difference is so obvious?
Left is convoy S2+ on 2,8 A (stock) right, reylight.


 

Edited by: Yokiamy on 04/01/2017 - 09:21
Jerommel
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I had the same question when i built a S2+ triple with those.
Quite a warm tint, looks like 3500K to me.

LightRider
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I have found the 219c has more yellow and less red tint than the earlier nichia’s. I had the same experience when I built my first 219c triple. So the color temp can be 4000k and the tint depends on the tint specs.

Lexel
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I like those rose tint from BLF348 lights, but its colder overall

MILSPEC
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I have the exact same observation with my Kaidomain 4000K 219C triple – they appear very yellow.

Favorite Nichia is the 348, so I reflowed three of them onto a triple MCPCB – just need to find a host for it.

Boaz
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I’d like to know if anyone with 219C 4000K nichias from Clemence have the same tint as the kaidomain ones . ?
I have a Jaxman 4000K that I think has too much yellow in it too .

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THE_dAY
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The Nichia sw40 tint range is very wide, can range from ~3750K – ~4250K.
The sw40 bin covers 16 different Cree bins.
Here are some beamshots of different sw40s
http://budgetlightforum.com/comment/1071320#comment-1071320

THE_dAY
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Boaz wrote:
I’d like to know if anyone with 219C 4000K nichias from Clemence have the same tint as the kaidomain ones . ?
I have a Jaxman 4000K that I think has too much yellow in it too .

I have the 4000K from clemence and it’s kinda yellow, not bad overall though.
EDIT: the 4000K from illumn.com are really nice, my favorite sw40, but they are 219B V1.
malkoff junkie
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I have those from illumn, very nice !.

THE_dAY wrote:
Boaz wrote:
I’d like to know if anyone with 219C 4000K nichias from Clemence have the same tint as the kaidomain ones . ? I have a Jaxman 4000K that I think has too much yellow in it too .
I have the 4000K from clemence and it’s kinda yellow, not bad overall though. EDIT: the 4000K from illumn.com are really nice, my favorite sw40, but they are 219B V1.

Malkoff !

THE_dAY
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ZFL-M60 wrote:
I have those from illumn, very nice !.

Yeah really nice tint, Henry from HDS uses these in his HCRI 200. He had mentioned that everyone of the LEDs he tested had passed his CRI testing unlike the previous Nichia batch he had used. Thumbs Up
ven
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I have a sportac triple 219c 4000k

and its defo towards the yellow side!!

Tjohn
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Boaz wrote:
I’d like to know if anyone with 219C 4000K nichias from Clemence have the same tint as the kaidomain ones . ?

I will be able to check out my recent Nichia purchase from Clemence only when I return to the USA in a month, but have to agree the sw40 Nichias from Illum.com are hard to beat if you like Rose (with a whisper of magenta). The company (IS) had a lot to do with Nichia 219A Leds becoming popular ‘way back when’.

The one light I reflowed them into has become my standard EDC and ‘go to light’.
While keeping bin variations and photographic reproduction processes in mind, we remember temperature and tint are less than synonymous.
Tints can vary greatly while maintaining the same temperature.
Kelvin temperatures are based on the colors of heated metal, often overly simplified by illustrating the color range between yellow (sun) and blue (sky).
Using a color wheel as reference, red/magenta, and green/cyan vectors influence the tint to varying degrees, while allowing the color temperature in Kelvin terms to remain the same.

This illustration may be of some use.
By super-saturating the colors in the OP’s photo, it can be seen the beam on the right contains more blue and green (cyan), while the beam on the left seems more biased towards red and magenta, with a preponderance of yellow.
The better balance of RGB components in the Reylight Led produces a whiter, more neutral light, albeit comparatively cooler than the more yellow Led from Kaidomain.

Yokiamy
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Tjohn wrote:
Boaz wrote:
I’d like to know if anyone with 219C 4000K nichias from Clemence have the same tint as the kaidomain ones . ?

I will be able to check out my recent Nichia purchase from Clemence only when I return to the USA in a month, but have to agree the sw40 Nichias from Illum.com are hard to beat if you like Rose (with a whisper of magenta). The company (IS) had a lot to do with Nichia 219A Leds becoming popular ‘way back when’.

The one light I reflowed them into has become my standard EDC and ‘go to light’.
While keeping bin variations and photographic reproduction processes in mind, we remember temperature and tint are less than synonymous.
Tints can vary greatly while maintaining the same temperature.
Kelvin temperatures are based on the colors of heated metal, often overly simplified by illustrating the color range between yellow (sun) and blue (sky).
Using a color wheel as reference, red/magenta, and green/cyan vectors influence the tint to varying degrees, while allowing the color temperature in Kelvin terms to remain the same.

This illustration may be of some use.
By super-saturating the colors in the OP’s photo, it can be seen the beam on the right contains more blue and green (cyan), while the beam on the left seems more biased towards red and magenta, with a preponderance of yellow.
The better balance of RGB components in the Reylight Led produces a whiter, more neutral light, albeit comparatively cooler than the more yellow Led from Kaidomain.

Thanks for this interesting and helpful answer!
The remaining question is, how to be sure that what you buy is what you expect?

sp5it
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I just measured 2 modules I purchased recently.
Kaidomain 219c R9050 D240 4000k and intl outdoor 219c R8000 D260 5000k.


View post on imgur.com

View post on imgur.com

View post on imgur.com

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Yokiamy
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Thanx SP5IT!

Tjohn
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Yokiamy wrote:

Thanks for this interesting and helpful answer!
The remaining question is, how to be sure that what you buy is what you expect?


Flowing your own, or having somebody reflow for you is the best bet after getting your LEDs from a known reel, from reliable dealers like IS and RMM.
Some brick and mortar businesses can be convinced to high-grade their stock for particular preferences.
WalkIntoTheLight
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When I measure tint hue shifts, I find that whatever Nichia 219 they put in the Reylight Pinapple (they claim 219C, but often when companies say that it’s really a 219B) is 4000K with zero tint shift to either magenta or green. Most other lights I have with Nichia 219 have a magenta shift (which is quite nice if you like that), and one has a green shift (yuck!).

So, I think you’re right that your Nichia 219C isn’t a pure white.

The_Driver
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Tints of 219B are centered under the BBL (black body locus) line. Tints of 219C are centered right on the BBL line (so the tints of half of the LEDs are above it). Above the line means yellow/green tint, below it means red. The BBL line means “perfect tint-free white” (regardless of color temperature). Of course a 3000K will still be more reddish than one with 6000K.

There are also different Macadams Ellipse tint bins of the 219C. There is 3-step, 5-step and 7-step. It basically defines how far away from the BBL line the tint of an LED can be. 3-step is the best. It basically means the worst tint in this Bin is much closer to the BBL than the worst tint in the 5- or 7-step macadams ellipse.

If you look closely at the LED you can easily see if it’s a 219B oder 219C. The package looks different.

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I agree that the 219c tend to be Yellowish, (tint above the BBL)
the N219b tend to be Pinkish (tint below the BBL)

I recommend taking a photo of your hand when comparing LEDs

My Manker Lad w N219c 4000k
Yellow tint (Above the BBL)

My Lumintop Copper Worm with N219b 4500k:
Pink (magenta) tint (Below the BBL)

Lad 219c left, Worm 219b right

I prefer the 219b, have not seen a 219c with a non Yellow tint, and certainly no Rosy ones.. I like Rosy.

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All 4000K 219C Ra9050 3 steps are naturally closer to yellow zone, and slim chance for rosy tint. With 7 steps the probability is higher either sides (super yellow or slightly rosy).

Stick with 219B sw45k if you really hate yellow tint. Even the 219B sw40 still can be slightly yellow.

- Clemence

Yokiamy
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Convoy on low mode, reylight on 3
With visible PWM

jon_slider
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The_Driver wrote:
Tints of 219B are centered under the BBL (black body locus) line. Tints of 219C are centered right on the BBL line (so the tints of half of the LEDs are above it). Above the line means yellow/green tint, below it means red.

excellent info!
clemence wrote:

All 4000K 219C Ra9050 3 steps are naturally closer to yellow zone, and slim chance for rosy tint.

Stick with 219B sw45k if you really hate yellow tint. Even the 219B sw40 still can be slightly yellow.

I agree, and yes I hate yellow tint

Yokiamy wrote:

reylight brass pinieapple on left has nice tint, too bad about the PWM
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Yokiamy wrote:
Convoy on low mode, reylight on 3 With visible PWM

Wow, you’re right. I had checked the Reylight awhile ago, and couldn’t detect any PWM, but I didn’t have my regular camera setup at the time. I just checked with my dSLR at 1/4000s, and it does have PWM, even on its maximum mode. I wonder why they’d use PWM on max? I guess because it also uses a 14500, that max on NiMH is an intentional step-down.

Does it still have PWM when using a 14500?

It’s something I don’t notice with my eye, but, now that I know it’s there…. arrrgh… must not try to see with my eye! It has such a nice pure tint otherwise.

Yokiamy
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WalkIntoTheLight wrote:
Does it still have PWM when using a 14500? .

since i don’t have a 14500 yet, i don’t know.

This thread says only the middle modes use PWM.

I have to admit the tint of the Reylight is amazing.
since the Reylight is advertised as a 219c high CRI 4000k i was hoping for the same tint in my S2+ with KD’s high CRI 219c 4000k, which it obviously isn’t…

jon_slider
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Yokiamy wrote:
This thread says only the middle modes use PWM.

Added PWM info to that link
Afaik a light w PWM has PWM on all battery chemistries.
Jerommel
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Yes, the 219C 4000K from WWEFANS / Reylight are cooler and less yellow than the KD ones.
I have yet to try Clemence’s 4000K ones.
His 3500K ones are very pleasant though.

charles lin
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White Balance set 5000K
from L to R:
Nichia 219bt 4500k (Manker E21)
Nichia 219bt 4500k (LUMINTOP IY365)
Nichia 219bt 4500k (LUMINTOP Tool Cu)
Nichia 219bt 4500k (LUMINTOP Tool Ti)
Nichia 219b 5000k (Mateminco CSF-01)
Nichia 219b 5000k (Nitecore Tip CRI)
Nichia 219b 5000k (BLF 348)
Nichia 219c 4000k (Reylight)
Nichia 219c 4000k (pinapple)
Nichia 219c 4000k (Clemence)

Tjohn
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charles lin wrote:
White Balance set 5000K from L to R: Nichia 219bt 4500k (Manker E21) Nichia 219bt 4500k (LUMINTOP IY365) Nichia 219bt 4500k (LUMINTOP Tool Cu) Nichia 219bt 4500k (LUMINTOP Tool Ti) Nichia 219b 5000k (Mateminco CSF-01) Nichia 219b 5000k (Nitecore Tip CRI) Nichia 219b 5000k (BLF 348) Nichia 219c 4000k (Reylight) Nichia 219c 4000k (pinapple) Nichia 219c 4000k (Clemence)

Truly impressive.
By chance do you have any shots of the two at the far extremes where they are positioned closer together?

Yokiamy
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Very nice comparison, i have been searching for a nichia comparison, this is it!

charles lin
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Tjohn wrote:

Truly impressive.
By chance do you have any shots of the two at the far extremes where they are positioned closer together?

Here you go, (L) Manker E21- 219b 4500k Ra9080 vs. ® S41- 219c 4000k Ra9050
WB set 5000k
Yokiamy
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Can someone give an explanation why the 4500k (to me) looks more orange over the 4000k? (from the beautiful picture of charles lin)
I just ordered the triple nichia 219C 5000K 83 CRI on noctigon from intl, since the 4000K 92 CRI from KD is to yellow-ish for me

The difference in temperature from charles-lin’s picture between the 5000k looks very huge, are there for example 4750k nichia’s? To me, i’d think that looks like the sweetspot in temperature.

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