Review: MaxToch Mission M12

Hello, we are working on a thrower [PART 1] Official BLF GT Group Buy thread. Group buy officially closed! Lights shipping.
But given the price goal we did not contact you since I could not imagine you would be interested in making something that throws further, is bigger and yet the same price as current models.
I would be interested to hear when you think though :slight_smile:

Hi Amanda,
I am sort of shocked to see you show up but I am a long time customer going back I think to the Gladiator.
Iā€™ve always considered you the most knowledgeable in the business and have messaged with you a number of times, last being a thank you note for sending the qty. 2 of the 2X by DHL,
I had those lights by surprise in only 3 days last year.
I still do not know why you did that, but I was grateful to you.

Regarding my comment about DTP, I know better and I regret even insinuating that, I was just being upset,

Iā€™ve realized my problem is not with Maxtoch and never could be, I consider your products as the best available and my collection is mostly throwers so yours are at the top for sure.
My problem is a personal one, I just do not take change very well.

Iā€™d really like to see a version like the single switch D01 but this style with rubber switch boot with with the stepless dimming and a lot less shine in the ano, and no stainless bezel sort of like a blacked out no shine version and scuffed up ano, Iā€™m getting ready to put the sandpaper to this M12 fairly soon, it reflects it is definitely still the high quality ano just different feel.

Itā€™s just the change, Iā€™m sorry about some of my comments, seriously.
Anyhow, Amanda you are the best,

Thank you Amanda

Guess it pays to stay the quiet one sometimes and just stay behind the scenes to get resultsā€¦ā€¦ā€¦lol (I am being sarcastic with that.)

I am a long time fan of the Maxtochā€™s as many of you already know. I simply brought to Amandasā€™ attention that the new M12 were not liked so much as the previous version and explained the reasons I had noted in the forum.

I hope it is explained why the M12 is not the great thrower the 2X is or even the M24 are ,and I really hope that things such as the DTP board in question can be put to rest at least.

I personally have a lot of faith in Maxtoch and their products and they canā€™t always target what they do , directly to cater to the Flashlight community , which is also acceptable with me personally.

It is the extra little things they do and the extra mile they go in the end and the time they take to listen to us that counts and makes Maxtoch the number one in my book. Not a lot of companies out there that take the ideas from this forum and make them happen and get things right the first time out like Maxtoch has a number of times now.

Just my 2 cents , thanks for letting me rant a little.

Hi Robo,
I had a hunchā€¦ well, not sure what to say, got a message and as always sheā€™s so very nice, asked for more input and wanting a lot of it actually, perhaps new light in the works and I said Iā€™m all in of course.
I think Iā€™m going to bed, this wore me out, sure do wish I hadnā€™t made that insinuation about the DTP, I know betterā€¦ geez
And the ano is just shinning, real high quality like shinny, to me anyhow, Iā€™ll still buy Maxtoch though, so whatever I guess, I donā€™t buy looks I buy performance, periodā€¦

Hey T18

I donā€™t have the M12 personally , although I keep tossing around the idea of getting one , I just never have done it yet.

The light may not be what we know as to what Maxtoch usually puts out , but I feel the internal quality is there , (driver , springs , reflector , wiring , threads etc. ) even without having laid eyes on one. The Anodizing and etching I cannot speak for , as you guys are the ones that have seen that first hand. But if it is shiny and does not look as good because that is what the police dept. wanted , then that is kind of like us designing a light through Maxtoch and getting it the way we want it and then other people buy what was produced whether it was what they expected or not.
Even if they did put out a light that was not up to the usual quality though , as I say I feel the internals would be the quality that is expected from Maxtoch and what they did do was for a reason other than just trying to cut corners or just cheap out. (personal opinion here)

They have always stood behind the products they put out there from the Gbā€™s I have done through Maxtoch. I know of a few people that were all upset at one time or another with a light that had a fault or something that wasnā€™t perfect on a light. ( I wont start calling names or mentioning incidents , but there was some that really got nit picky with a few lights) Maxtoch has bent over backwards for a couple of the people that complained , even when some of it was super trivial and had NO bearing on the quality of the light or performance , to get a satisfactory solution for the so called problem in the end. (usually a brand new replacement light)
Not to single him out but an example ā€¦ā€¦ā€¦ I think it was TomEā€™s light that had the lettering that was kind of crooked on the BLF-TE M24 from the GB and Amanda got a new tube out to him right away when I sent her a picture of that. TomE didnā€™t complain really and I took it upon myself to send the picture to Amanda.

As stated up there I just feel they are one of the few companies that actually listens to what is said here and really does their best to get things right whether it is a new design , exsisting design that needs a change , or whatever it may be.

TomE has always put out good reviews and he knows what he is talking about with these lights. I am sure when his M12 gets to him he will be making his own opinion also on the M12. He may have the same opinion as everyone else and he may not , either way I will not abandon my Maxtochā€™sā€¦ā€¦lol

Robo, I hope you know that I am grateful and respect your work man, Maxtoch is just a little too expensive for me to justify buying them like they are Convoys :wink:
T18 gentle and polite as always surely nobody has any sort of beef with you :wink:

Hey The Miller,

I appreciate the compliment andā€¦ā€¦ā€¦
not trying to go into a big debate about it at allā€¦ā€¦

I think the Convoys are great lights also and good quality , especially for the lower price for most of them , I have a number of Convoys too.

I just think the Maxtochs are a little better in the quality department with most of them and I am willing to spend the little extra for that , even if it means getting 1 light instead of 2 lights or something of that nature.
It depends on the light you buy as to the price though really and what you are wanting out of it to begin with. An example of that would be the Maxtoch 2X which comes in at just under $100 and will throw like crazy right out of the box with NO mods needed and will run full brightness without a step down for 75 minutes or more on two 18650 cells. I donā€™t know of another light that will touch it , WITHOUT mods and under $100 out there right now.
I donā€™t know if you have been through the thread of the 2X or not , but there are beamshots in there at like 800 and up to 1041 yards with the 2X lighting the target good enough for the camera to show it. Granted it is larger objects but still I donā€™t have another light in there (out of about 100) that comes close to the throw and quality of the 2X (other than the M24ā€¦lol) with the factory dedomed XM-L2 U4 1A and that is counting even the modded ones I have.

Also agree with you that no one should have a beef with T18. I think he already knows I am not griping at him one bit with mine , but simply stating whats on my mind with my comments.

yes I am in need of a real thrower, and really need, so for daily actual use of lighting our big island, I have a few spots where no trees block the view, and it starts at 150-200 meters.
So I have seriously thought about the Maxtoch, but as you write, spend more once to get something good and well going for a serious thrower at a serious budget I figured better go for the TN42 for it is the current king of throw and would be nice to compare the future GT with (ā€œsee honey, I need it for the GT project and how cool it is to light up the castle at 820mā€ :wink: ) ah reminds me to email M4DM4X for code :wink:

And about ano, shiney, lots of expensive lights have black shiny ano. lots of cheaper too, the better ano stays on there when it is dropped. cheap poor quality chips or gets damaged easy, no matter mat. shiney, rough or smooth. I trust Maxtoch to be good quality so who cares what the look is, in the darkness it is the beam that matters and is seen :wink:

Ummmm but waitā€¦ā€¦arenā€™t you gonna have the GT to match the TN42 or at least the 2X coming out soon?..ā€¦ā€¦lol

Isnā€™t the new 2X not even designed yet ?

The lastest 2X was designed in 2016 (the one I did the GB on) ā€¦ they stopped production because of some crumby drivers the company they were dealing with was turning outā€¦. They went to a different company now for drivers from what I understand and the 2X should be back up on the Aliexpress (Maxtoch) site soon.

Good to know , thanks :wink: I thought it was a totally new version .

Heheh despite progress the GT will take a while, too long for I want a thrower yesterday :smiley:

Finally got movement on tracking for the new M12 from BG. In NY last night, moving this morn, maybe couple days now...

Now if only the Eagle Eye X9 from AliExpress will start moving...

Amanda - again, we've has these discussions before on pricing, but this is a pretty close competitor to the M12 XHP70 for us typical buyers, not law enforcement.

E.E. X9: $61 shipped here

M12 XHP70: $100 shipped here

Same:

  • SS bezel
  • exc. AR coated lens
  • type III hard anodizing (EE says "premium type", Maxtoch says Mil-Spec type)
  • LVP indicator on switch
  • maybe approx. same output (need to verify, EE claimes higher at 3800 lumens)
  • full length equal
  • lockout feature

M12 + Features:

  • dual switch input - added dedicated switch for strobes
  • larger head diameter (66 vs 63 mm)
  • lighter: 334g vs. 350g, if listed accurately
  • tripod mount

So it's $39 more for the M12, 64% higher price. It's a big markup for two lights that are very close in specs, features and quality. Granted if the prices were in the same ballpark, I'd buy the Maxtoch because of the features and higher quality, but would I pay $39 more or 64% higher to have those features? It's a tough buying decision for many. Personally I'd go to $75 maybe $80, but $100, sorry but no.

I do believe your type III ano is superior to the Convoy or Eagle Eye ano, it's just that it's hard to test and prove, and for selling it, it all sounds exactly 100% the same.

So before you shoot down the group buy deal or deals, think about the market you're up against.

Wait.. Am I goin bonkers? The XPL HD and HI models are list at $75 now on the Maxtoch Ali store: aliexpress.com/MAXTOCH-Mission-M12- XPL HD.

Were they this cheap before? If so, didn't realize. Banggood's prices are higher. The M12 XPH70 is listed at $80, which is pretty darn good now.

Did they listen or was I totally ignorant? Maybe a bit of each?

I got the XPL HD version in today. I have to say I have a different impression - it's gorgeous! Way improved design over the old one, and I'm comparing them side by side, one in each hand.

What I like:

  • crazy stock power in lumens: 1,282 @30 secs on one cell (LK) and 3.44A tail on clamp DMM, 1,550 @30 secs on 2 cells (EVVA protected) and 2.55A tail on clamp DMM
  • shorter overall length than the old M12 (thanks to the e-switches), more stable tailstanding with 3 points rather than 2
  • nicely done SS bezel
  • I like the finish and grip - feels grippier than the old M12, and the etchings look fine to me
  • switch UI is fine with me. Really like the feel of the metal SS switches - nothing cheap here
  • the head feels like one mass of metal. Didn't put it on the scale but you can feel it and see it. They must have added weight to better balance it with two cells, because it does balance very well with the extension.
  • really like the added tripod mount. Can be used for other accessories as well.

What is so-so or don't like:

  • throw is under-performing from the specs. I measured 101 kcd at 5m (636m) on one cell, 128 kcd at 5m (716m) on two cells. Close as I could measure the I.D. is the same as the old M12, though the head is measured wider. These are still decent throw #'s for a 63-66 mm class head diameter light. Since I measured throw at 5 meters, you may get 5% or possible as high as 10% improvement outdoors at 10+ meters.
  • the SS bezel is deep, deeper than the old M12 or Manker U21 for example. Not sure if there's an impact, but usually there is - loss of lumens or maybe it effected the throw, not sure.

Just a word about the ano type III finish. I got a U21 in for upgrade/repair and it's finish was pretty beat up - scratches show raw shiny aliuminum, etc. With these Maxtochs, the ano embeds deeper into the metal, hardens the metal so it's harder to scratch and show. The Manker though has the look of better quality, but if you compare smooth surfaces, the M12 is definitely grippier, though is shinier.

Thanks for your input Tom. It sounds from the one you got to be a fairly nice light.

The price of M12 HI and HD are always usd75.00/pc. There are four options of different accessory combinations. usd98.00 includes 2 batteries and chargerā€¦ :innocent:

Any chance these will be coming on sale anytime soon?

Maxtoch M24 Sniper | Max Output 1350 Lumens | Max Beam Distance 1100m |
XM-L2 U3 LED | 2x 18650

Maxtoch Shooter 2x | Max Output 1450 Lumens | Max Beam Distance 1200m
XM-L2 U4 LED | Focused Beam | 2x 18650

Of course I couldn't leave it alone. There were obvious candidates for a resistor mod on the driver. The driver is pretty nicely done - thermal pads, thermal epoxy, thick board, sweetest retainer ring I've seen in a while - heavy, large brass.

I could not tell what the limiting resistors are, but there are two large ones in parallel labeled R1. Tried measuring resistance over it, think possible it measured 0.1 ohms, but not sure. So figured I'd try an R100, as shown below:

Well on 2 cells, it sure made a hugh difference!

On 2 protected KP's at ~4.0V, the tail amps on a clamp DMM showed 4.45A, and lumens:

2,050 @start, 1,940 @30 secs

throw: 158 kcd taken at 5m (795 meters)

That's a big bump. In amps it went from 2.55A to 4.45A. It might be a little beyond the peak of the XPL, depending on how much amps is really getting to the LED. 7A to 8A is about peak.

On one cell, it bumped it up but not much. Tial amps went from 3.44A to 3.85A on a LK cell, lumens:

1,350 @start, 1,323 @30 secs

I'm thinking bypassing the springs should help in the single cell configuration, and probably make no difference with 2 cells, where it's well buck regulated.