Talk about future projects and donation topic

yeah and here it is OT, nice
Again, xx650 is too long, AA and 14500 are significantly shorter.
A extruded tube and tail like the TK4A are shorter and no need for a carrier.
Q4 is a AA driven light primarily not a 32650 light where AA can be added, because then this comes into play:

As I pointed out in the other thread, the total length of the light would be the same regardless of which cells you used. The TK4A is 115mm long, about the shortest it can be and still be ergonomic.

A 65mm long cell can have the same total length as seen on the NE01. So the size “issue” is a moot point. Ergonomics will determain the minimum length anyways. With an e-switch light if it is too short you will not be able to access the switch without repositioning the light every time.

As far as the quote. So what you are saying is that you don’t care what the light is as long as a new driver is designed for it? A driver that would be useless in any other light as it would be too large for any normal lights and too small for any SRK style lights?

Not to mention that such a driver could cost as much as the entire light and thus almost double the cost of the light.

If it is primarily an AA light, then why make it? The TK4A is good enough and we can’t improve on it except for a better UI since the AA’s themselves will be the limiting factor on brightness. Way easier to just build a new driver for that light for people to swap in.

If this is something you have your heart set on, then fine. Doing something because you can is as good a reason as any.

I’m not trying to join this argument, but I’d like to make just one point. There are plenty of tiny lights on the market with side e-switch. If it were bad for ergonomics, they wouldn’t sell, and the manufacturers would stop making them.

I never said the side switch was bad, I said that if you make the light too short it will be impossible to comfortably hold the light in such a way to allow easy access to the switch without having to reposition the light every time.

Which is why you don’t really see side switch lights shorter then ~110-120mm.

If the TK4A didn’t exist I would not be so opposed to the idea but as it is, rebuilding the TK4A with a different driver seems like a waste when you will get nothing out of it except the ability to use expensive, crummy, low powered, “fragile” 14500’s that have less power then a 18350.

This, specifically, is what I was disagreeing with. There are actually plenty of lights with side switch that are shorter than this.

There are side switch lights shorter then 110mm that are 30mm+ wide? Never seen that, but then I don’t pay a lot of attention to lights outside the budget arena.

To be honest I have only seen a handful of lights less then 100mm with a side switch. All of these were tiny pocket lights that were meant to be held with your fingertips. This light will not be a fingertip light due to the 30mm+ width and weight to go with it.

That aside though, the rest of the points I made are still completely valid. 14500’s are the worst cells in existence besides 10440’s. Why would I use those when there are other options that are the same size or smaller but offer far better performance for far less money?

An 18650 offers more power and current then 4x 14500’s. 18350’s offer more power then 14500’s. From a practical standpoint, why would anyone use 14500’s in a light like this? I know I would gladly trade 1.5cm of extra length for a battery that gives me over 2x the runtime and costs less then 1/2 the price.

Plus I have Man sized hands, I need that extra length anyways.

Hmm you read:

? Really?

Don’t really know how to respond to this…

Maybe, if you don’t care about AA lights fine, don’t get involved, don’t ask to be on the list and don’t buy it, I am not forcing you :wink:

Maybe, if you don’t get my drive for these projects that take a lot of time and energy that is fine, but please refrain from commenting especially using words like useless if you don’t see value for yourself, be polite man!

Maybe, PD68 made a triple down driver, Tom and DEL made a big Q8 driver and you then made the TA series allowing people to use Narsil or Bistro in various lights, a relatively big AA/14500 driver design might just lead to drivers people can use in all the lights for a single AA.

Maybe, well I try to get things done, with a positive attitude and can do “if there is a will, a way can be found” mentality.
Nay saying, seeing things negative is not my style, example? A certain BLFer was sure the GT driver would cost manufacturer at least $25 and just asking a few questions to the right persons now has lead to almost ordering the parts for a first proto, and guess what, if we divide the oshpark bill by 3 (minimum for these size boards) and buying parts one piece instead of large quantities it already is lower then $25 for us, so half of that for larger quantities. Meaning $10 at most for manufacturer, making me very glad I did not listen to that BLFer :wink:

Maybe,
Why can’t you just steer clear if all you want to say you don’t see something of use for you, you don’t see it work, you want it to be something else, you think it is too expensive and what not.
Just start your 32650 light to use the Ultrafire 32650 cell linked to in the GT topic, with a nice AA holder, make that awesome versatile light, you can add me on the interest list. I just don’t see a personal interest in being part of a team making it, have said this before so it must get through to you what the idea of the Q4 is.
Find an angle for why a 32650 light would push BLF forward, discuss a light like that as a light NOT the Q4 and who knows it might be something to pursue after all. Or if the wish for 32650 is strong it could be the size for the zoomie for example adding versatility to that light.
Just unhook it from the Q4.
The only thing that is hard is dealing with nastiness and nay sayers, all the rest is a joy and party.
It is a hobby dude :wink:

Yeah that last maybe is probably the best answer :wink:

DQG Tiny 26650 (hey look, even with a big/long cell!) has dimensions of 97mm long x 36mm diameter. It has a side switch. Like The Miller said, if you have a preference, there’s nothing wrong with stating that preference. But in this case, you’re coming across as pushy, arrogant, and rude. We can’t read your mind, but your words seem to indicate that you think your opinion is ‘truth’ or at least that it is a universal opinion. (Blame the internet!) Your Man-sized hands are a legitimate concern for you but not necessarily for others. :wink:

I may have come off a bit harsh, I am sorry for that. I like what you are doing and support your work, which is why I pushed the GT project and want to see all of these projects succeed.

This is also why I don’t want to see a year+ of time spent on a light that makes no logical sense when that time and effort could be spent on a better and more usable light. I want to see more lights come into production that can truly push things forward such as the Q8 and GT.

For the record, I said that the TA buck costs $25 to make and it was the closest thing we had to what the GT needed. I knew the cost could be reduced due to only needing about 1/4 the current the TA buck was designed for but every time I talked to DEL about it he said he didn’t want to get involved with a buck driver.

Thus the only option for such a driver was the TA buck, which DOES cost $25 (more if you only build 1).

I also edited my post after rereading it but after you had started typing your apparently. My post was a bit harsh.

I am a logical guy, I will always look to the most logical option to a goal. Using 14500’s is not logical when other options are considered. There are tons of negatives but only 1 possible positive, it could be 15mm shorter, in a light that is too large and heavy to be a fingertip light and then falls into that awkward middle ground between handheld and fingertip / pocket light.

Larger cells on the other hand offer tons of benefits and make much more logical sense. I simply wanted to point out the logical side of such a light so that people could know what they are getting into.

I agree with David that lack of comfort holding it is not enough reason to not want the Q4 as short as possible. Many lights are very short and I like them for their compactness and I still find them comfortable to hold. The SWM D40A and the Crelant V4A are 12cm, the shorter Manker MK41 is 10.5cm, but because of the short quad reflector and if we do not use a battery carrier, we can make the Q4 as short as 8cm. Mind that that is a full cm shorter than the newest DQG tiny 26650! When also squaring off the middle section of the battery tube, we have an ultra-compact 4xAA light that makes the most of the advantage that AA-size is shorter than 18650-size.

I said “really” see. Sure there are always fringe cases. :wink:

I agree, my wording was a bit strong. Although all of the facts about the batteries, are just that, facts. Not opinion.

The only opinion is that the shortest it should be is ~110m. That is indeed my opinion, although that is an opinion that would be backed up by most market research consultants as seen by the fact there are very few lights shorter then that.

I will bow out now, I only wanted to bring attention to the logical side of using larger cells over 14500’s. I have done that and there is no need to continue doing it. People can make up their own mind.

My opinion is that the time, effort and resources would be better spent on something besides this. This is one of those things you make when you run out of things to make IMHO.

The 4P AA 14500 Q4 is a really nice follow up with Thorfire IMHO
They do the Q8
We take the TK4A tube, tail and switch, scale down the head of the Q8, design driver and build on the trust there is now.
AA lights are very useful, in the car for example here I measured –12°C to 60°C, no way I want a li ion cell in that.
The 14500 is just added bonus for Mac brightness and so we can develop a driver that paves the way for some sweet Bistro / Narsil SK68 or whatever AA or 14500 light
Complex firmware on a AA would be my prime goal for the Q4 so to say.
That is why our normal 2,7-4,2V input are less interesting here, making it work on 0,9-1,6 AND 2,7-4,2V that is the challenge and a mighty big one I’d say.

4xAA is 4.8V nominal, versus 3.7V for li-ion. You can not burn that off with a lineair/direct driver. It will need a buck driver, and it needs to deliver at least 6A to the emitters if you want an output that is remotely impressive with a floody quad set-up (2400 lumen). Quite a challenge that is!

The TK4A looks like a good start but I don’t like the ears at the bottom, it adds unneccessary length, in my opinion of course.

The Miller is talking about a 4P. Not 4S
So only 1.2v… I can not believe in 4P AA.

No no not series, parallel
Consider the Q4 the ultimate muggle light and hopefully opening doora to sweet AA yet complex cool firmware running flashlight mods on SK68, Kronos X5, etc lights.
And indeed modded TK4A mini soda can lights needing only 1 AA instead of 4.
The 14500 is neat for those qanrinf max output but 1* AA with Narsil/Bistro is a goal.

You need about 3v (I hope you are not thinking about a xhp in this configuration) for one led and about 6amps for 4 LEDs to get the 2400lm out of it
ONE AA???
Poor small eneloop. :confounded: after 10 minutes dead :smiling_imp:

OK im in!

This thread will get 100 or 10000 posts… I have time

HKJ has tested Eneloop AA up to 10A current. If it takes 2.5X to convert AA to LED running voltage, you’d need 14A input to get 6A output. One cell probably couldn’t handle that, but two might, three sure would, and four would be gravy! The real challenge will be finding a boost driver capable of 1xAA input to ~3V 6A output. I don’t know that any have even been attempted, but that driver has actually been desired around here for a while.

This! :slight_smile:

Here is one.