A Perfect Dedome?

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Sledgestone
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Nice job khas!

Do you have a link to the thinner you used? Hopefully I can get it shipped to Sweden!

Never mind. I saw that you bought it in Italy..

Tjhosan
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I have been trying to find nitro thinner in sweden but cant seem to find any..

Sledgestone if you are more successful please share your findings Smile

Sledgestone
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I’ll try to find some. There might be some at a local paint shop.

AlexGT
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That dedome and beam tint look really good khas! Congrats Beer

Has anyone found that nitro solution in the USA? Care to share the link?

1C3
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After reading about the nitro thinner, since I had some laying around, I decided to try dedoming an xhp50.2 that I plan to put in a convoy L2. The results were better than I expected: in ~10 minutes the dome came off without leaving much residue (but it took a bit of phosphor with it) and while I haven’t tried it in a flashlight yet, the tint seems to have changed very little (this was a 3A) and the infamous yellow tint shift seems to be less evident than before. Though I’m not sure why that happened, I think it may be because of the thickness of the phosphor layer on the sides being reduced by the phosphor lost during the process.


Sledgestone
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I made some progress. Found this in Sweden.
http://www.lackbutiken.com/sv/hem/ppg-billack/tvatt/max-meyer-nitro-fort...

Didn’t find a data sheet though, but I’m pretty sure that it’s the same. Only thing missing is the Antinebbia part. Anyone know what it means?

AlexGT
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My best guess is that Antinebbia means “No fog”

I found this in the USA but not sure how much it costs or if it would work like luminarium iaculator has posted

The only places in the US that might carry it are

And a hobby nitro thinner that might also work is this one

https://www.ebay.com/i/121780765176?chn=ps&dispItem=1

Sledgestone
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Hm, no fog? Not exactly sure what fog means in this situation..

luminarium iaculator
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Guys,

When you de doming of hard core emitters you can leave them even more than 15 minutes in boiling thinner. When dome fells(and that happens very soon) it does not necessarily means that other silicone bits on emitter will fall they need to be cooked bit longer.

So don’t watch guys. Stick to my instructions and click stopwatch. But even 1 or more hour of cooking can’t destroy phosphor.
Nitro thinner sounds mean but it is not. If it is skin friendly so it should be phosphor friendly.

And one thing I can’t believe. That there are no paint thinners on some markets? Guys what do you use for thinning a paint before coloring something? With which solvent do you clean your painting tools, and even your skin after painting with color for metal surfaces?

EasyB
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Anyone dedome any XPL V6 1As recently? For me most of these emitters do not dedome easily using hot gas method. There remains a layer/chunk of silicone that is well attached to the phosphor. I end up having to carefully scrape this away and it’s not clean.

gastonpatagonico
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Hi, I made a dedom with thiner for polyurethane paints, with temperature in hot water, no flame, 30 minutes, but there were traces that I had to clean carefully, the result of the dye is just as thin in xpg2 s42b, greetings !!

AlexGT
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gastonpatagonico wrote:
Hi, I made a dedom with thiner for polyurethane paints, with temperature in hot water, no flame, 30 minutes, but there were traces that I had to clean carefully, the result of the dye is just as thin in xpg2 s42b, greetings !!

Would you say that the tint in your LED shifted from 2B to 2T or 3S ? Did you use the Nitro Thinner?

gastonpatagonico
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Hi, if you use nitro thinner, or similar, it is thinner polyurethane based paints, difficult to determine, compared to convoy L6 N2-3A, it is greener and is a warm green, so I would say that between 3B-3S-3T, for My vision and use outdoors, it is quite pleasant, good depth, greetings!

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AlexGT wrote:
My best guess is that Antinebbia means "No fog" I found this in the USA but not sure how much it costs or if it would work like luminarium iaculator has posted !https://i.imgur.com/YmPvmcl.jpg!

 

The safety data sheet for this one can be found here. (MSDS)

 

The ingredients are listed; mostly toluene and acetone.

Jerommel
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Googling for some of this stuff, and the prices vary enormously.
Makes me wonder if there are different kinds of this stuff.

djozz
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I tried the l.i. method, using this stuff:

(for Jerommel:I bought it here, they have it in larger bottles as well: http://www.topfproducts.nl/Nitro-verdunner-100ml)

I folded a small container from tinfoil filled it with some thinner, placed it on my hotplate, and put some leds in mounted on a ledboard. I soon found out that you want to be outside when doing that (headache now Facepalm ). I checked a XM-L2, a 3rd gen Oslon Square, and a Nichia 219B.

Once the thinner was hot, the XM-L2 dome floated off in 3 minutes. Not all the silicone was removed after 25 minutes but the die was nice and clean.

When after 20 minutes (yes, I was impatient and curious) the other 2 domes did not spontaneously fell off (they did look far gone though) I gave them a gentle push and there they went.

The Oslon dome came off together with a clump of phosfor while in other places still silicon was on the die (probable cause: phosfor mixed in the silicone), dedoming without removing phosfor will not work like this (and likely never). The picture looks better than in reality: the remaining phosfor layer was of uneven thickness, the silicone broke off in a random way inside the phosfor area.

The Nichia dome came off with a clear layer of silicon left on the die.

When trying to pry off remaining silicon it became clear to me something that I did not realise before: also the Nichia phosfor is mixed with silicone but during production the phosfor-silicone mix is applied in a die-cavity first, filling it up, then the clear silicone dome is added.
So with these Nichia’s you end up with damaged phosfor or with a film of silicone on the phosfor. This is not different from a shaved dome.
In my case: damaged phosfor:

Conclusion:this is a very potent method (thanks l.i.), XM-L’s dedoming is peanuts, and with Nichia’s it worked way better than ever before with petrol. But it will not magically dedome leds that have the phosfor mixed in the silicone.

Lightbringer
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That stuff (looked at the msds) looked like mostly toluene, just minor ingredients, and the last-listed ones only 1% or so.

Probably where the “nitro” comes in…

09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0

luminarium iaculator
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Djozz,

I think you don’t really have good paint thinner there…

Don’t get me wrong but your results are terrible with this method.

You should have ultra clear results with this method especially for XM-L2 and after only 15 minutes…
So it ain’t good… It aint good for now Wink Hope next one will be better.

Edit:

Nitro thinner should not cost more than 2-3$ per liter!

This is proper result of my method:

khas wrote:
Just tried luminarium iaculator’s metode with nitro paint thinner with two XM-L2 CW is works great :

Thank you so much for sharing this Thumbs Up

My conclusion:
I see that Djozz had only 100ml of mentioned expensive paint thinner… That is not enough! During cooking process (boiling hot – not just hot) thinner evaporates very quickly.

I use about 300 ml of boiling hot thinner in a pot that is just slightly larger in diameter than regular glass. In that pot I put around 4-5 emitters. After 15 minutes I have it less than 100ml. So it evaporates quickly.

So when doing this method it all depends on size of your pot. You got to have plenty of nitro thinner inside your pot and that should not be problem since it is dirt cheap.

luminarium iaculator
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I try to google your Netherland market guys and I don’t know a single word but I think that is right stuff although I am not 100% sure:

Edit:

One more:
http://www.k-verhoeven.nl/product/4271002151/

Those two looks rather expensive 3-5 euro per liter. So find the cheapest ones on your market!

Sledgestone
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Can anyone from Italy try to find a data sheet of this one?

http://m.ebay.com/itm/DILUENTE-NITRO-ANTINEBBIA-5-L-/191992125757?hash=item2cb39f593d%3Ag%3A4n4AAOSwUuFW1VHh&_trkparms=pageci%253Af4696e22-6282-11e7-98de-74dbd180d4b4%257Cparentrq%253A196aeda515d0a866dd4f6eacffee9b67%257Ciid%253A19

I’m on the verge of ordering a 5L container of this and the shipping is quite expensive, so I want to be really sure that this is the good stuff.

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– Nitro paint thinner does not have to be Italian Buying over ebay is waste of money. It can be from any manufacturer on the world. I even did not used that one that I linked in posts before. I used cheap 2$ one from my local hardware store.

I will write even more detailed instructions since some of you guys seems to have problem with it. You are all adults so I will not take any responsibility if something bad happens:

- Don’t use diy pots out of aluminum foil and similar stuff. Use real “open pots” smaller or larger one like this:

- Use plenty of nitro thinner in such pot cause it will evaporate quickly! For example in my small(little larger than regular glass) pot I use 300ml for 5 emitters.

- Boiling hot thinner! So as I said boiling hot so you can see boiling bubbles.

- Boiling time: Emitters like XP or XML should be boiled for 15 minutes from the point when thinner starts boiling(from the point where you’ll start to see boiling bubbles). Other hardcore emitters? I don’t use others Smile but if XHP 50.2 can be de domed with this method so can other ones… If needed you can safely boil them even longer but make sure you have plenty of boiling nitro in your pot! If nitro evaporates from pot you’ll fry your emitters!

- Don’t look, don’t touch, don’t smell before it is done. Do it outside if you can but if you are doing that in your kitchen(like myself) open the window or kitchen hood,

- After it is done use tweezers carefully and put them out one by one in a isopropryl alcohol bath (another small dish full of isopropryl alcohol) and leave them for few minutes. Remember Isopropyl alcohol. Don’t use other ones.

- After that take them carefully out of bath in a hand, turn it over to – side so it is leveled with your eyes and use air compressor pistol or compressed air to fully blow silicone remaining over those tiny + wires. I do that in a single compressor blow and voila! Mirror clean emitter is there.

If you’ll get results like Djozz in above pictures that means that you did not follow procedure well or you don’t have proper solvent, or you did whole method in a wrong way. I’ll give Djozz D – Smile since he managed to de dome XM-L2 but unsuccessfully since it is very dirty and not ultra clean as it should be. Khas did that for A+

djozz
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Hmm, I’m a bit reluctant letting large quantities of paint thinner evaporate into the environment so if you don’t mind I will stick to smaller containers.
Yes, my stuff may be wrong after all, even though it worked better than the gasoline that I used before. But I doubt that those leds with no clear boundary between phosfor layer and silicon will ever properly dedome.

Sledgestone
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Well the biggest problem is that most countries don’t have this anti fog nitro thinner..

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luminarium iaculator and fellows in general, please be aware you don't need to keep evaporating the paint thinner. Once the pot solution starts to boil (thinner reaches boiling point), lower the pot heat until evaporation is reduced to a minimum. High heat doesn't makes the solution hotter, though it increases evaporation rate (for higher solution temperature, higher atmospheric pressure is required).

No need to waste thinner. Smile

 

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djozz wrote:
Hmm, I’m a bit reluctant letting large quantities of paint thinner evaporate into the environment so if you don’t mind I will stick to smaller containers. Yes, my stuff may be wrong after all, even though it worked better than the gasoline that I used before. But I doubt that those leds with no clear boundary between phosfor layer and silicon will ever properly dedome.

Please don’t stick to small containers or you will never de dome properly cause it will evaporate quickly and then you’ll fry the led on a steam like you did on your pictures. Use at least glass size pot and at least 300ml of thinner.

The most important thing is that it is the most perfect method for XP and XML emitters and I am pretty confident that I would de dome even that hardcore ones. If you want you can send them to me. I don’t use nichia or that osram since they are not suitable for my builds.

And thinner is skin friendly. It is stuff for cleaning yourself after messing with paint. So don’t worry for environment Smile

DEL
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luminarium iaculator wrote:
And thinner is skin friendly. It is stuff for cleaning yourself after messing with paint. So don’t worry for environment Smile

Toluene, which seems to be a major ingredient of these thinners, are on the EPA’s hit list of 187 HAPs (hazardous air pollutants). A few of the other typical ingredients are probably on the list as well.

https://www.epa.gov/haps/initial-list-hazardous-air-pollutants-modifications

Also from the EPA’s page :

Quote:

Hazardous air pollutants, also known as toxic air pollutants or air toxics, are those pollutants that are known or suspected to cause cancer or other serious health effects, such as reproductive effects or birth defects, or adverse environmental effects. EPA is working with state, local, and tribal governments to reduce air emissions of 187 toxic air pollutants to the environment.

Examples of toxic air pollutants include

*benzene, which is found in gasoline;
*perchloroethylene, which is emitted from some dry cleaning facilities; and
*methylene chloride, which is used as a solvent and paint stripper by a number of industries.

Examples of other listed air toxics include dioxin, asbestos, toluene, and metals such as cadmium, mercury, chromium, and lead compounds.

What we are doing have no impact compared to some big industries, but for yourself and those around you please be careful when boiling off these chemicals.

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Well said DEL! I always use a gas mask when dealing with thinner or other dangerous chemicals. Thinner is a especially nasty chemical. I would never think of washing my hands in it after painting.

It’s always wise to read the safety data sheet beforehand, so that you’re sure that you have the right protection when using it.

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Sledgestone wrote:
Well said DEL! I always use a gas mask when dealing with thinner or other dangerous chemicals. Thinner is a especially nasty chemical. I would never think of washing my hands in it after painting.

It’s always wise to read the safety data sheet beforehand, so that you’re sure that you have the right protection when using it.

Guys everything is dangerous and cancerous this days… Even barbecue, normal cigs E cigs… Smokers are greater pollutants than de domers Smile

Have you ever did coloring of metal surfaces like fences and similar stuff using regular paint brush? There is like 99% of chance that you will get dirty after that. Here in X part of the world(Balkan) people would laugh at you to see you wearing gas mask while working with paint thinner Smile To me this is hilarious even when I imagine that Big Smile

Of course you will not wash your hands with it when you cleaning yourself with it. You will put small amount of that on some cotton or small sponge and then you will dissolve dirty places on skin and then you’ll wash all that with soap.

There are so many chemicals that can harm us more than mentioned thinner.

But of course… We all should be very careful when de doming cause Mr. Devil never sleeps.

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luminarium iaculator wrote:
Of course you will not wash your hands with it when you cleaning yourself with it. You will put small amount of that on some cotton or small sponge and then you will dissolve dirty places on skin and then you’ll wash all that with soap.

That’s not how I used to do it. Oh well, safety is everything nowadays… Yes, I would just wash my hands with it as if it was a liquid soap. I don’t paint stuff for the living, so I somehow survived the score of hand washings that I did in my life.
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Yes your method is pretty common in X part of the world also cause people are not afraid of that. There are no house without paint thinner. It is in top 5 used solvents. I see you are from Poland Smile We love your tractors Ursus 330 335 Thumbs Up

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