New 4XP Noctigon MCPCB for quad optic

The graph above could be viewed as a slice of a larger 3-dimensional surface. If a time dimension was added depth-wise through the screen, it could be used to show runtime graphs.

For example, take one X value on the levels graph above. Let’s call it 60% max brightness. If it extended back through the screen, it might look something like this graph selfbuilt made: (green=Meteor, red=Q8, purple=D4)

This isn’t the best representation since it’s for a completely different set of lights, but I hope the idea is still clear: The Meteor has better output regulation on medium and high modes, so it looks almost flat. The Q8 and D4 have only partial regulation, so the output follows a gradual curve over time.

This depends on the output level though:

  • On low modes, there isn’t much difference because both methods are regulated on low.
  • On turbo, there isn’t much difference since they’re all pretty much direct-drive.
  • On medium and high modes, the Meteor’s flat regulation is significantly different than the FET+1 driver’s partial regulation. However, on a small light like the D4 these modes are generally limited by temperature, so the output depends on thermal regulation rather than power regulation.

This regulation difference is something people can’t easily see during use. If output slowly drops 20% over a period of 2 hours, it’s virtually impossible for a human to notice without a lux meter. However, the interface is something people notice right away, so it might be a good idea to prioritize interface over regulation if a tradeoff is required. The SWM V11R was a hugely popular light because it had such a nice smooth ramping interface, even though it was notoriously bad at regulation.

Anyway, nobody knows the details yet, so instead of saying rude things about it based on speculation, let’s wait until reviewers have a chance to try it. :slight_smile:

I don’t know all the details and it’s not my story to tell but, from what I’ve heard, this quote might be more true and more unfortunate than Serp intended. A big part of why I make everything open-source is to make sure nothing has to depend on one developer.

One thing is certain though — Intl-Outdoor is not Astrolux. Hank doesn’t sell badly-designed junk like the S42.

2 hours? 20% drop? Are you sure?
Several messaged ago you was not happy with steps in m43 ui. Now you understand that smaller steps are not reasonable by eye.
And no, you cant show all factors in 3-dimensional graph because cell internal R and discharge curve are not same. Ramping fet is smth very strange. You are trying to manage some parameter that you havent calculated and dont know exactly its value right now.
P.S. Im not against cheap custom drivers, Im not going to share links to foreign forums and make adv. for developers that wants $30 for one driver. I just dont like when programmers making hardware developments (and vice versa).
P.P.S. Cell voltage and R can be tested each time you turn switch on and some standart discharge curved can be used to make lower modes (50% and less) more stable (compensate cell discharge).

While I definitely prefer boost drivers with stable output to FET drivers, I have never seen the combination of:

  • Good efficiency
  • High maximum current
  • Ability to fit in a pocketable light (let’s call that about 20mm driver diameter)
  • Low price

It’s usually 2/4. Zebralights, for example are small and efficient, but they’re not hot-rods by BLF standards and they’re pretty expensive. The Haikelite MT01 using the off the shelf LD-35 boost driver is cheap and efficient but doesn’t come anywhere near fitting in my pocket, nor is it capable of a lot of output for a 3x18650 light. The Meteor might arguably hit three points: it’s a good value for what you get, but it’s not cheap in absolute terms.

A compact triple with a high-current boost driver would be awesome. Wait… that exists, but you’ll pay through the nose for anything from Lux-RC. The D4 costs $35 and I’m fine with a FET driver at that price point. If anybody would like to bring the Indigo driver to market outside Russia and can hit a competitive price point, I’m sure BLFers would be interested. I, for one need more Nichia 144As in my life.

I personally don´t care about the driver type in the new D4 - I want the most lumen out of it in turbo mode (hopefully nearly 4400 lumen in the XP-L HI version :smiling_imp: ); batteries can be recharged! :smiley:

No. Nobody has numbers yet. Those are made-up.

I didn’t try to put all factors into one graph. :slight_smile:
A 3-dimensional graph can show 3 factors. In this case:

X = brightness level in UI (1-9 of 9, or 1-150 of 150)
Y = lumens
Z = time

I’m not trying to regulate flat lumen output in firmware at all, and I don’t think the D4 firmware does either. I don’t care much if output sags over time. I do try to regulate heat though, because I don’t like to damage the hardware or burn the user.

The firmware could attempt to do flat current regulation on a FET, by increasing PWM level or decreasing PFM ceiling as voltage drops. I’ve done it before. It’s complicated and fragile and not very effective. I don’t find it worthwhile. Current regulation is better handled at a hardware level.

As far as I can tell, the D4 should have high maximum current, ability to fit in a pocketable light, and low price. The efficiency isn’t going to be as good as a Zebralight, but it should be significantly better than a FET-only driver. So… 3/4 maybe?

The D4 gets 3/4, but it doesn’t have a boost driver. I was specifically addressing boost drivers: good ones are either big or expensive.

Does anybody of you use lights except for wow - effect?
As already said this host can carry 5-7W for long time. With 10-15W consumption it would be hot like zebra on turbo. With 20W+ it would be an useless toy. I have 30W pocket light of similar size and overheating(65C) occurs after 17 seconds.
A price of Skilhunt h03 with buck driver is obout 30$. So D4 with dd , pwm and unknown output (becouse of rumping) is only quite expensive host for mod.
After M43, D4 is huge step back for Hank. I understand that d4 is already in production but I hope to see good drivers in the next Hank s light.

The Meteor is called Noctigon MEteor, and is sold as a semi-high end flashlight with a rather high price-point…
The D4 is sold under Emisar brand, at 35$ for a quad… you can’t expect the same level of technology/efficiency/Russian eforums exigence…
Please, Russian fellows, give us the secret to make 35$ flashlights with magical boost driver fully relgulated at all levels :expressionless:

I don’t want cheap flashlight. I want to spent my money for good thing that I can use every day.

The good thing is that no one forces you to buy it ….I do not understand your disgust, if something I do not like I do not buy it and I do not walk all day complaining ….
I like this price at what it offers, so I will buy one. The good thing is that no one forces anyone to buy anything.
(of course, I will buy it only if Hank decide sell in his store….)

So we waited the same hi level with out analogs on market. But we received another astrolux.
It’s as if the ferrarri will release ford fiesta.

This is disappointment and nothing more/

If this one is not good enough, buy a zebralight instead. Problem solved.

And be happy with its greenish tint :smiley:

It’s fun to see how people who pay the price of a mid-range flashlight want to have a zebralight in their hands ….:wink:

M43 also had a price of a mid-range flashlight when it was relised. I dont want another zebralight.
I was waiting for good 4led light with good modern driver for adequate price.

I really understand you…but the “adequate” price for this, is obviously higher than 35 USD…(is only my opinion, of course)

When the M43 was released there was no cheap variant of such a light. Today we do have cheap/affordable single 18650 triple and quad lights. It might be tricky if the D4 were priced significantly higher than $35, as people might (= will) find it overpriced. It’s a choice I’m sure, but I also understand the disappointment.

I agree to add 15-20 bucks and even 25 bucks for good driver .
For those who do not want to pay much astrolux and manker exist with similar lights.

and all these have low quality , pwm or dd driver bad ui and so on. And now there is one more such light. So I am not happy )

I think that the last Manker are not comparable with the last Astrolux…. (better of course the Manker)

Manker u11 coupon price was $30. Quality host with build-in charger, buck driver, side switch, compact size. Same quality light without manker brand could probably cost much less (utorch?). Make changes to fit quad optics (similar to my quad kit, even less machining in comparing with place for reflector). Optics is not more expensive than reflector. PCB footprint doesnt influence on board self-cost (neverless board is single or quad led). Only thing that can increase price - three extra leds (not big difference between 4xXP-G3 vs 1xXP-L).