Okay, so I have done some measurements on my switch board LED and resistor. The resistor is measuring at 15,130 OHMS and I am passing 1.453VDC on to the two LEDās. The switchboard LEDās stopped flickering after some more use of the lights. The voltage on my batteries is around 3.8V. Applying a full regulated 4.1VDC makes the LEDās light up like they are supposed to with 2.4VDC going to LEDās. Now here is the odd thingā¦ After putting my partially drained batteries back into the light, they two switchboard LEDās lit up again for a short time, although one a little brighter than the other. I have measured the resistance across the LEDās themselves and found one to be at 61k OHMS and the other to be at 68.5k OHMS. Not sure what to do with this information, but I will probably be replacing the LEDās in mine as well as the resistor to hopefully higher quality components. Disappointing, but I guess that is to be expected from a first run. Is there any possibility of Thorfire offering replacement switchboards for those who wish to repair their lights?
Aside from that battery not being any more āprotectedā that the 30Q?
Not really, but before buying oneās first āprotected li-ion batteryā, one should be aware of who manufactures what. āProtectedā Panasonic NCR Bs are comparable to, say, Trustfire, Keeppower or Nitecore branded batteries. Not comparable to normal Panasonic, LG, Samsung etc. bare cells.
Company A (typically someone big) made a li-ion cell. Company B (when buying āprotected panasonicsā an unknown sweatshop) rewrapped them, sometimes in clear plastic and fit a protection PCB and nipple. Company C made the PCB. From saying āa protected battery like the panasonic ncr18650bā one will have a long way to making an educated guess who made what.
You canāt really learn much by trying to measure the resistance of an LED probably nothing, because a typical multimeter wonāt apply anywhere near the Vf when measuring. Particularly when still connected to the de-powered MCU on the driver (whose internal protection circuits might be expected to provide another current path),
If your meter has a ādiode testā setting that could provide useful information, but most such meters are set to measure switching diodes, typically less than 1V Vf. I do have one meter (a very cheap one) that can measure Vf on itās diode test setting, up to about 3 V
The diode test setting usually applies a constant current of 1mA through the diode, and measures the resulting Vf. Itās actually very handy to check parts before or after assembly, because 1mA is enough to light up even big LEDs sufficiently to show that they are working, or with these little SMD leds light them up very brightly.
Iām not sure how people use beacon modes. Iāve seen them with an on-time anywhere between 1ms and 1000ms, and an off-time of anywhere from 1s to 10s. Brightness has been anything from moon to turbo. What kind of beacon is ideal?
On my most recent beacon I took a guess and made the on-time 500ms, with brightness and off-time both configurable. But I donāt know if thatās what people consider good.
Probably not. Iām assuming youāre looking to buy 30Q with aftermarket installed button tops(but no protection PCB added). Theyāre probably OK. However, itās always an unknown factor. They may or may not have remarkable added resistance.
30Q unmodified could be available too. No problem buying those from BG either, if youāre willing to solder those to make kind of button tops.
Donāt get bent out of shape.
Consider the odds are that they did stop production for good reason.
Like, they need to understand why the problem is happening and, importantly, figure out whether it would appear over time with more flashlights.
You donāt want them to rush and ship you something that is going to make you unhappy later on.
They are smart to be concerned not about just a one percent chance of disappointment but about the possibility of shipping a known failure or problem that will appear after a while.
Could be thereās a problem with construction technique. Find that guy and educate him.
Could be thereās a problem with a bad parts lot.
Could be all the good source parts have already shipped and the next batch to be built would all or mostly have (or develop) the problem.
Are there bad parts in the bin theyād be drawing from if they kept building lights? They need to find that out.
And remember ā itās several companies supplying parts, several people putting them together.
All you need is just one person on the critical path with the chabuduo ā āhey close enough just ship itāā attitude, covering up a problem and passing it on.
Finding that person can be a real difficult task, as that personās manager could have the same āclose enoughā problem and be helping hide it.
Could be they really care about their reputation for doing quality work. Signs are thatās whatās happening.
If you really want protected, I would go for better protected GAs (i.e. protection circuits around 10A) or one of the new breed of protected 30Q or VTC6. Examples include Imalent 15A protected 3000mAh and Acebeam 3100mAh protected.
From what I understand, itās normal for little LEDs like this to have inconsistent performance when driven at such low levels, and to have different brightness per LED even at the same low voltage or power level. Theyāre not precision-binned like the Cree XP-L used in the front of the light.
For modding, people normally tweak each indicator LED individually to get a good result. For mass-production, this isnāt feasible so there is much more variation.
This probably reveals nothing about batches or longevity. Itās just par for the course.
The thing is, in our application, i.e. running LEDs at very low currents, in the 100 uA region, we are pretty much āoff data sheetā.
Typically datasheet Vf is specified at currents of 10s of milliamps, but below that the transfer characteristics can be highly non-linear.
So yes, a green LED with a datasheet Vf of say 3.3 V may well emit our desired levels of light at much lower voltages, but it may not be a region that the manufacturer tests for, nevermind commits to as a guaranteed characteristic parameter, and might be highly variable from batch to batch, even within a batchā¦
For othersā interest I came across this tutorial which explains the basics:
The most reliable way to use an LED to consistently produce these low light levels might be to drive it at the lowest current level that is fully characterised (much brighter), then PWM it down to the desired level. If you have an MCU driving it already, and sufficient free internal resources (timer-counters etc.), maybe it could be done with just a little more firmware, and a resistor value change.
In an alternate reality, they would immediately issue a new absolute shipping day after they discovered a problem (preferably in a few days). They would then diagnose the problem, get delivery after finding they needed a replacement supply of parts, quickly rework the switch boards, and then deliver the2000 remaining lights to the carrier on the exact date previously stated. And send a repair team to each site that has received one of the first 500 and bring all of those up to spec (should only take an hour or so if there are the required 500 teams (with slack for hurricanes and other flight delays). It would be polite if each owner would arrange for good Chinese take-out while they were there.
In the reality we are forced to live in, they are proceeding exactly like they should and would/should/could absolutely not issue a new shipping date without confirming that the problem is resolved and all updates to the 2000 lights done. Then work out a protocol for replacing the problem part(s) in delivered lights. With the direction testing is leaning, this may have to replace the switch boards. The fault could be a problem with the Q8 electronics not providing enough voltage to the LEDs. And if this is the issue, it is further likely that just about everyone with bad switch boards could have the same problem at a later date based on the charge of batteries and maybe burn in drift.
Indications of ongoing testing (going on as we type) indicates a possible problem with the quality/Vf variability/incompatible Vf specs for the color and type.
Both of mine arrived today; they were ordered within minutes of each other the first day they went on sale.
One is perfect so far. The other has a couple issues we've seen, and (I believe) a bran-fresh one (lucky me ;) ).
First issue is asymmetrical LEDs in the switch. Here's a pic of both, and while it's not a great picture it shows a smaller bright spot on the right side of the right light's switch:
The second issue can be seen in this picture. There's an obvious flaw in the tube/anodizing. This came out of an absolutely unscathed box, so I don't believe it occurred in shipping:
Here's a close up; not sure what caused it tbh but it's not a simple dent.
Interestingly, the light with the flaws pictured above also has a battery tube that's not correctly aligned with the head when fully tight.
Mine arrived and itās perfect, no problems to report, everything works fine, itās heavier than I expected, thank you so much Q8 team! :partying_face:
Will update on this thread if something comes upā¦
Frustration is understandable given the anticipation of this exciting light. Maybe Iām a persimist, but I recognize the monumental task of getting a complicated piece of electronics manufactured half-way around the world. The barriers are enormous. It seems to me that off the shelf, stock flashlights have a higher than average failure rate compared to other commodities.
In fact, I buy most of my lights from modders like Vinh Nguyen, not just because they are bright, but any problems have been fixed in the upgrade process. Not to mention, Iām dealing with someone I consider a friend and warranty work is a fast, state-side turnaround.
So, why go for this given my pessimism? Because this is a great flashlight design, backed by a hard-working team who did their best. And letās be honest, where pray tell can you find a better bang for the buck in a flashlight. Wasnāt it worth taking a chance? And the outcome seemingly has only one insignificant glitch, which has nothing to do with the reason we bought it.
This post is to say thanks to the team!!!
Thanks for mentioning tube alignment āferalcomprehensionā. :+1:
I gotta go back & check that. Nothing jumped right out at meā¦. but never can tell, I was paying attention to other stuff.
Instead of shaking your fist at the empty sky demanding to know when it will rain again, this might be a good time to do something else. Go for a walk, talk to a friend, laugh at cat videos, rock out to loud music, argue with trolls on 4chan, do some cleaning, whatever works for you. A delayed flashlight isnāt worth raising oneās blood pressure.
Iām anxious too, with a project or two waiting on a Q8 hardware, but there are plenty of other things to do in the meantime.
