[PART 1] Official BLF GT Group Buy thread. Group buy officially closed! Lights shipping.

I guess Neal swapped the shipping on his own. I know TA suggested that all US orders be set the DHL by default, but I don’t think they actually did it. I think they left it up the customer.

I’m sorry to be blunt, but I hear the lack of experience speaking. There’s a significant improvement visible right there. And for the yellow you think is inferior, there is none of that. The 4000 K color temperature is pretty close to ideal on a long range thrower, when it’s going to be used outdoors and not in a lab. White balance makes 4000 K appear sort of yellow on camera - when directly compared to an impractically blue cool white.

While 4500 K would probably been the preferred choice for most and arguably the best one, I’m glad it turned out this way and not with a, say, 5000 K emitter. Amateurs would be glad to have a more visible beam in the atmosphere, but it would be less than ideal for IRL performance.

Exactly. The “beam ray” is wasted light. That’s why warmer is better in throwers if it does not sacrifice too much. This is pretty much basic curriculum.

Then allow me to be blunt back…

Numbers are not what matter. Perceptions matter. Perceptions make purchases - not numbers.
For the past few years we’ve seen great leaps in technology… XML, XP’s, XP-G2’s, XHP’s… and whenever a new production is compared with a previous led/flashlight, the improvement is almost always a ‘whiter and brighter’ beam and light-up of target.

Cheap Fl’s have the hallmark blue-tint white lights which we all know are crude attempts to make something brighter… agreed, in that context cooler is not helpful when you’re at the 6500 - 7500 mark.
But I say again… the video speaks volumes and there is a CLEAR difference between the two flashlights… and if the guy had not labelled the screen with which version he was operating… I would put money on it, that many folk would have presumed from the difference in performance that the order he operated them in (original first, new model second) was the OPPOSITE way around.
Try it yourself… just watch the clip from 03:16 and try not too take notice of the labels telling you which one he’s shining… and ask yourself HONESTLY… which one would you presume to be the newer version…??

Go to 03;16 to save time

Yeah BUT… check this video out at 12:30… the beam was hitting stuff like miles away… with a lovely bright white beam and clear target light-up…

Go to 12:30

Yes, this was through M4DM4X - I can forward more details via PM if needed. Not panicking, just slightly anxious with the prospect of seeing this monster at some point.

Explained once:

Explained twice:

Then, after that you write:

Are you even reading what people are typing when they respond to you? No one is disagreeing that the pre-production light had a more visible beam. They are saying the beam isn’t the purpose of the light.

Like others have said, the neutral tint beam is brighter at lighting stuff up in real life, hands down, no question.

The cool white beam is brighter in the air due to the scattering of the blue wavelengths in the air (the same reason the sky is blue).

You do NOT want to see the beam, all that light you see in the beam, is light not making it to your target down range.

The camera sees the beam of the CW better but that is only the camera. In real life you will see what you are aiming at better with the neutral white tint.

For example I had an L6 and S70, the L6 was NW and the S70 was CW.

I tested them both side by side on the meter, the S70 had more throw and more lumens with the meter readings. I fully expected it to throw better in the real world.

I was shocked when I tested it with 7 other people and the exact opposite was true. Everyone 100% agreed that the L6 was better and threw the beam further with better clarity and contrast.

We were shining it across a Creek and the S70 could just make out the shoreline. The L6 on the other hand could see the frogs jumping into the water the difference was so extreme.

You are welcome to change out the emitter or sell the light if you desire but please don’t go spreading false information.

You have had a half dozen people explain this to you at this point, most of them with many years of experience and hundreds of builds with high end flashlights.

Rah_BE… yes I am reading what people are saying - very carefully - thankyou for asking…

What I’m saying is that ‘whiter and brighter’ has been the trend in recent years… one which whenever I’ve had a newer more powerful flashlight, the improvement has been (literally) clear.
Suddenly… the afore-mentioned video seems to show a reduction in the APPARENT brightness and clarity - yes I know the numbers add up, but the perception doesn’t.
If I had wanted a yellow warm beam I’d have used my 1980’s MAGLITE…!!

This is true ^
The reason so many manufacturers only use cool white these days is because it does appear brighter, to the eye and on camera.
A typical layperson is far more likely to pick the cool white, especially if they like the way the beam looks in the sky.
.
.
For something like the GT, very few people are using it to actually illuminate something at 3km as part of their job, most people are buying it for fun and “wow” factor of the beam.
A extra few lumens on the target is most likely not what most people are concerned about.

For this reason, almost two years ago we chose neutral while for the LED.
Not sure who made the decision (without consulting anyone else) to swap it for 4000k which is extremely warm, especially for cree LEDs which often have a yellow/green tint at those colour temperatures.
Neutral white would have been ~5700k.

I suggest that anyone who wants that impressive super bright beam swap their LED out for a 5700-6500k, or simply return/sell the light.

The tint change was discussed, we had planned for a 3D tint all along but they were sold out world wide in a high bin so we settled for the best thing we could get, which was 4000k. There were many pages on the subject. The fact it preforms better in the real world was a bonus.

It was not a decision so much as lack of options, this was the only viable option we had at the time. So the choice was wait a few months to start production or go with what we had. Not much of a choice to say the least.

While I love the 4000k personally, My favorite tint is 4500k and I like a good 3D as well.

I will say this LED has no hint of green in the beam, it looks like a small sun.

I think 5000k would be a good sweet spot personally, but my led will be swapped eventually to put out more lumens and less lux. And when I do it will be a 5000k emitter (no clue what emitter yet though)

Thank you OH thank you…!!

I was just starting to sniff the first whiffs of a mob-mentality against me … and people speaking to me like:

a) I wasn’t reading any responses
b) I had no experience in flashlights whatsoever
c) I was just some negative brainless sh$t out to cause trouble…!

Yep, Enderman is correct…. he is answering JasonWW’s question from Post 14441. He has asked several times because he did not see his name on the list that HAS NOT been updated. This was the answer to Jason’s question from the linked post below………

I’m planning to put only four cells in my GT.

Is there any benefit to load all height slots apart from runtime? Like would it be brighter?
My understanding is it would not make any difference due to the rather low pull on the cells.

Hey Tex… thanks for the explanation - really do appreciate the time to explain…
I know people shouldn’t ‘mess with Texas’… but no need to assume a parent child relationship with condescending expressions like “…you have had a half dozen people explain this to you …” like I’m not getting it or something… Tex… let me let you into a little secret… I get it…!!

I’m pointing out ‘perception’ rather than lumens… read back to Enderman’s post… all shall be revealed… :wink:

Well then, I guess a bunch of people are gonna be disappointed.
Hopefully the majority do understand that it will be brighter on target so they are still satisfied with their light, especially since most people are flashlight enthusiasts.

I would like to mention that tint and colour temperature are NOT the same.

I assumed you were just discussing the tints without changing the colour temperature.

Personally I think 6500k looks white, anything like 5700k and below is too yellow.
7000-8000k is pure white which is why short arc bulbs in moving heads use those colour temperatures.
It also gives a much more visible beam.

By all means. My opinion on this is very well informed and can withstand some criticism.

Many BLF members would disagree. It’s mostly numbers that make purchases, sadly. That’s why an extreme floodlight after another has more and more maximum momentary lumens without much actual added real life performance. That’s why throw performance is advertised using the unrealistic and optimistic ANSI scale, and that’s why stated runtimes may not always match with experience in practical use.

BLF projects are not typical commercial products. They don’t have the perceptions or numbers that typically make purchases. They may not be totally practical, and with the GT, there sure isn’t a real need for most who bought it. They still somehow are compatible with the advanced hobbyists’ taste, a lot of the time. And they do have a very good real life performance if there is a practical need and application. Better than the numbers would suggest.

“Whiter” as in “bluer” is not at all everyone’s wish. In commercial products, cooler white gets too much preference just because of the numbers. In throwers the numbers lie because the actual measurement is done close up. In floodlights there at least is some actual benefit with cooler color temperature and whether to prefer warm white is more about preference and/or specific needs.

Cooler is definitely not helpful even going from 4000 to 5000 K when you have a thrower with a practical range in thousands of meters rather than hundreds.

The only time cooler is factually helpful is when we want the highest raw lumens possible, e.g. highest floodlight efficiency, or when we really want harsh light, as in trying to blind someone. Everything else is about preference, environment or other specific applications. In the case there is no lumens advantage or very little, cooler isn’t better.

Honestly? Oh, I saw this video earlier, and my reaction was positive. Color wise, this footage tells more about his camera and cameras in general than the lights. The warmer should not be that yellowish IRL and the cooler should not be very bluish. And comparable CT’s are not, when you have no reference point to another high power light. Both are somewhat neutral.

However, what we can observe is exactly the “stronger” beam of the inferior light, and this speaks for the new version. You don’t want to be losing photons to scattering, and you definitely don’t want to be blinded by a blue beam blocking your line of sight and reflecting back to you from every millimeter of atmosphere. This is not an 18650 EDC light, and there is a bunch of molecules to stare back at you between you and your target, say 1.5 kilometers away.

“”Well then, I guess a bunch of people are gonna be disappointed.“”

The above I think will be a bigger problem than what some will have expected… you should NEVER set people’s expectations to one thing and then it be something else when it arrives… even if certain numbers can ‘prove’ it’s performance is the same or even better… it’s the perception of the recipient based upon the expectations set which counts.

I watched the first Giga thrower YT vid… was amazed and wanted one… which made me order.

Looks like there’s more than a fair chance i’ll now be returning the light… HATE warm beams… they had those in the 1800’s with candles…!!!

Mob mentality? Relax. I’m not saying there is anything wrong with purchasing a high performance thrower just because it makes a nice beam in the atmosphere. Thing is, this is a flashlight enthusiasts’ forum and as ridiculous this might sound like, most likely the majority values actual throw performance more than large scale Star Wars wow factor. Not that the latter wouldn’t be nice.

Being overly critical just because this is not another blue light for mindless consumers - this is what might have triggered folks who actually know their light. Falsely interpreting a video to show things that are not there is another.

…and miss-quoting me doesn’t help either…!! I NOWHERE said that I was critical because this is not another ‘blue light’… in fact… if you read back you will see that I do mention that cheaper blue lights are no good at all…

Please be sure of what a person has and has not said prior to accusing them of being ‘overly critical’.

“”Falsely interpreting a video to show things that are not there is another””

Work on your facts buddy… watch the video and then find where I ‘falsely interpret’ anything…