You can Google the thermal runaway temps for lithium-cobalt (rarer these days), lithium-manganese (common) and lithium-iron phosphate (more common in RC hobbies) and see that li-co start running away at ~265*F, li-mn is a bit higher than that and li-fe is in the 300s, IIRC.
You’ll know it when you feel it.
I was once walking around a CVS drugstore with my new Sunwayman M10R (IMR 16340) clipped inside my shorts’ pocket and I feel this burning on my thigh. I keep walking and it gets hotter and hotter and when I stop and pull out the light, it’s on high.
A runaway cell will get a lot hotter and the li-co chemistry will actually start venting with flame, where as the other chemistries don’t have that much in oxidizers, so the ‘flame’ part isn’t as definite.
Yes, but I interpret that as he shorted out the car battery with the metal light in his mouth. That could produce over a thousand amps going through his mouth.
It just doesn’t seem realistic that a flashlight battery could blow someone’s brains out and snap their neck. I think he’d have spat out a hot light before it went into thermal runaway and exploded.
“A Colorado dad suffered third-degree burns to his lip, tongue and throat when a flashlight exploded inside his mouth
… placed the flashlight in his mouth while he was using his hands to search for tools in the back of his truck. Within seconds, he says, the flashlight exploded.”
Yup… like I said, this has happened before. This person was even a CPF member. Here is the thread:
It’s bad to assume that someone will notice and have time to react before something goes catastrophic is wrong. There is also a story I remember reading of someone blowing up an 8x18650 flashlight spontaneously on their balcony. He described basically only having about a second to drop the flashlight before it exploded. If it can happen that fast in your hand then it can happen in your mouth before you even realize it since you are probably holding it with your teeth. I wish I could find the thread, but I can’t.
Kind of obvious really, all you have to do is read that post… but Ok, I’ll make it simple for you.
Don’t put a light like that in the hands of a noob.
Good quality cells probably won’t explode.
Put a locking mechanism of some sort so the light can’t be opened like that.
I read the post brother, and I agree with your conclusions, which were unclear, to me. I appreciate that you spell them out.
maybe a warning label: If you are not the builder of this bomb, Do not Unscrew, because it will Blow!
on a separate subject
why do flashlights blow up when people put them in their mouth? Is drool shorting them out? or just random that the light blew in that position
and then, when a light blows not in their mouth, its not news?
Okay, yes, sometimes lights with lithium-ion cells can be dangerous and get people hurt. But, I think we should keep that risk in perspective. How often does something like this happen? Once every few years? Out of all the lithium-ion devices in the world, how often do they explode and hurt someone? Maybe a dozen times a year?
I think you’re in far greater danger driving to the store to buy one of these devices. (Okay, I know most of us mail-order them.)
Use quality cells, check them before and after charging, and use them correctly. 99.9999% chance you’ll be fine. If not, someone probably had your number anyway.
I was going to post something inappropriate, but, well….
With my first lithium powered flashlight, I was a little paranoid, but after much help from members here, I have many batteries now. Common sense goes a long way and just being alive is also risky, so it's much better not to worry about it.
someone lends a nonflashoholic, lets say their Granny for sake of example, an 18650 light that has no built in overdischarge circuit, loaded with an Unprotected ICR LiIon.
She leaves the light On overnight by mistake, and the next night it wont work, due to a drained battery.
Should she put the battery on the charger overnight, before going to bed?
Common Sense says yes, but that would be very very wrong…
Do you know why?
Do Worry About It!
That is the whole point of this thread, common sense is not that common.
Not everybody has the same “common” experience, so they also don’t have the same sense.
Some of us have a habit of holding a flashlight in our mouth sometimes. Does common sense tell us that is a bad idea, and that there are reports of LiIon lights blowing up in peoples mouth. Are we feeling luckier, or just smarter, with more… uncommon sense:-)?
In case you did not notice, I did mention "common sense" but your example was about someone, who severely lacked any common sense, lending out their flashlight to granny.
Folks, it’s not about smarter or dumber, this entire topic is about a technology that NOBODY was born knowing. It’s not like “water flows downhill” that we all learn early on. This is about the general public perception that “it’s just a flashlight, no big deal” and how the truth is that we’ve gone WAY beyond that point.
My point is not to get into some esoteric debate about what people “should” know, my point is that we have opportunities to educate the more general populace and we should TAKE those opportunities especially as more and more powerful and energy intensive lights become commonly available in such venues as Amazon where by god Granny and the young ones WILL eventually discover them.
Great, let’s keep moving the technology forward, but lets also be good citizens and EDUCATE wherever we can.
I think we also need to put in a stronger advocacy for some basic safety features like lockouts, thermal regulation, and polarity protection that, honestly, should be a given in the higher power lights.
Back in the day they were “just flashlights” and we (the hobbiest community) got looked at really strangely when we said things like “you know, it’d be a good idea to have some actual testing standards for brightness, runtime, water resistance” but eventually we convinced manufacturers that in fact it WAS a good idea and they could improve their reputation and their sales and here we are now.
So now, I think we need to try and do it again because something like a flashlight, being marketed to the general public, really needs to be “appliance” level safe and simple and error resistant. I don’t think it’s going to be all that tough to do but we do have to start holding companies accountable for good SAFE designs or we’re headed toward that place where “the government” tries to regulate it……and you know how that usually winds up (UGH).
Good points and we should do our best to share our knowledge to others. If there is a silver lining, it will be when the new solid state and aluminum batteries come on the market as they are supposed to be fool proof.
Ehhh…if granny charged it back up the next morning, most probably nothing at all would happen, however, if she put it away in a drawer for six months, then maybe so?
Copper dendrites forming was/is more of a lithium-cobalt issue and we don’t see many of them these days.
Don’t over discharge your batteries.
◦ Batteries begin to suffer damage if discharged to 2.5 volts.
◦ Batteries should be discarded if they discharge to 2.0 volts.
In any case, we all want to be safe. Im in favor of system designs that promote safety, for example build overdischarge protection into a light.
I agree education is important. I encourage everyone to share the info in LiIon Safety 101
I also agree there are other flashlight design features that can improve safety.
Ultimately, the choice to use LiIon carries higher risk than other power options. It is not a trivial matter, and most people are unaware of the risks.
I predict a new warning label
The State of California has determined that LiIon batteries contain elements known to cause Cancer.
and people will buy them anyway, until the next more modern, hopefully safer, power source becomes available
My granny smoked in bed. So, as I said, it’s all about relative risk.
New power sources are likely several years away, if not longer. I do think it’s going to get more difficult to obtain lithium-ion cells, simply due to shipping restrictions. Almost every shipper thinks they’re going to take down all their planes, burn all their postal carriers, sink the Titanic, etc.
