Why do you buy lights without High-CRI emitters?

My english vocabulary is too poor to explain it accurately but you need to understand that CRI is only an idea of how rich a spectrum is for some sample colors. CRI rating is made by measuring spectrum of reflectance (of a few sample colors).
A higher CRI means a richer spectrum. It doesn’t meant that all CRI 90 spectrums are equal and will show differences in colors the same.
Without considering your cones in your eyes, you see colors because object are reflecting a part of a spectrum. If there is low red shades in your LED’s spectrum, red, brown objects and all objects with few or rich red shades won’t reflect those red shades that are not in this particular LED’s spectrum.
The higher the CRI the richer the shades. A nichia CRI=90 with R9=50 has (or will show) less shades of red colors than a CRI=90 with R9=80.

White wall hunting even with different whites is really not a good way to judge CRI.

I remember this CPF’s thread which convinced me to “invest” in an HDS flashlight that was one of the rare HI-CRI flashlights several years ago.

HI-CRI vs LOW-CRI

Temp, tint and CRI, each one has a real and different influence on how colors are reflected and perceived.
Temp is obvious and can be judged with any color because it is just a white balance.
Tint is rather obvious too.
CRI is more subtile and need a wide range of natural colors and artificial colors to measure its benefits.

i have one, it’s nice, but i don;t need accurate colors all the time.

what i don;t want is something that costs $125, or is 6” long, or has a UTI ( User Torture Interface ) - just for the sake of light color - other things are more important.

when i want accurate color, i have an Astrolux S1.

( which cost $20, and even has MFUIOA ( My Favorite User Interface Of All ).

but I still don’t carry it every day because it’s got TBD ( Too Big Disorder ) ) .

wle

NYSVMLNWATA (Now You Sounds Very Much Like Nitecore With All Those Abbreviations) :laughing: :laughing:

- Clemence

Some of my lights are throwers. Using a high-cri LED reallly limits the maximum luminance that is possible and thus the throw.

that makes sense, here is how another person justifies buying low CRI

has a fairly noticeable cool to greenish shift if you’re literally analyzing the beam on a white wall but I got it for the lumens

Chicken Ala CRI, can quickly inform the difference between low CRI an High CRI.

The ChickLight :slight_smile:

Top Chick is 6000k XP-G2 72CRI, like the HDS 250, bottom chick is 4000k N219b 92CRI, like the HDS 200 High CRI

one of my favorite CRI tests is the Hand Palm

not to be confused with the Coco Palm (green is not a High CRI challenge color). I roll my eyes when someone posts a High CRI comparison targeting green plants. Its the RED spectrum that High CRI excells at.

Here is the light spectrum from a Cree XP-G2 (note it has plenty of green)

Here is a Nichia 219a (note how much more RED)

Here you can see the difference between High CRI with Low R9 and High R9

next look at the CW XPG3 on bottom right. It certainly works fine to show the hand and the jewel, certainly High CRI is not needed to identify the shape of objects. So if someone wants Low CRI, I can understand. It is certainly brighter. Its a tradeoff, do you want more realistic reds, or just need a brighter beam to reach out farther?

Where did all the red go? The bottom two images use XP-G3 that lack R9, even though one is High CRI. If you want to see a Rosy Palm, High CRI with High R9 makes for a better Flesh Light.

When it comes to getting up close and personal, High CRI Rules the Roost!

Stay tuned for our next episode, Debunking the Myth that Low CRI NW shows colors as well as High CRI NW… here is a preview (NW is just yellower)

Spectral view of an LED with nice color rendering: (measured by maukka)

Spectral view of “white” on a computer monitor, showing how much of that information actually makes it across the internet:

Photos on a monitor are not high CRI, even if the scene they represent was.

But with that much red response, photos might actually look better on a monitor than with a high CRI light!

Im also learning about the importance of R9.
Zebralight has been getting a lot of reports for Green Tint in their Cree LED High CRI offerings. Also true for the Olight S1 Mini High CRI w XP-G3, and in my experience also true of lights w N219c. When it comes to R9, Nichia 219b have much higher levels.

What the camera sees, and what the monitor shows, is not identical to what our eyes see, but photos can still add a lot of useful info, that words alone do not. People often confuse white balance with tint, a typical example is when someone claims their NW led shows colors better.

here is a NW low CRI led R9 content, compared to an N219b R9 content

I combined image clips from these posts by maukka

That Astrolux IS a High CRI light, with an R9 of 67. The NW Ti S Mini has an R9 of –22. They do look different from each other, “in real life” and also on a monitor.

I think the point is that it’s relative.
You should technically be able to tell the difference, just imagine the spectral response above multiplying the response of the monitor, compared to a low-CRI response multiplying the response of the monitor.
The resulting output from the monitor will be different, although how much is debatable.

I’m just kinda hopping in here, but after trying high CRI with 2x D4s(1st/2nd batch) and a MF01 I can definitely tell the difference from my other lights, but I’m starting to veer away from high CRI offerings because I just prefer slightly warmer than NW. I still like the high CRI, but I want high CRI from 4000k to 4500k and I’d straight up turn down a light that’s higher than 5000k high CRI or otherwise. I would take something with less CRI in a warmer temperature in that case.

We like what we like.
Used to have to settle for awful blue tint, nice we’ve got so many options now!

Here’s my normal LED backlit sRGB gamut monitor where the spectrum clearly shows the individual R, G and B subpixels. While the CRI is only about 90 the Rg index in the TM-30-15 is over 100 which means that the gamut (range of colors) is actually larger than a perfect blackbody with the same CCT.

However, I have no idea if this emissive technology can be compared to a reflective real world object.

The ambient light measurement method also skews the color temperature, although the monitor has been calibrated to D65.

It depends on the application for me.

LEDs incorporated into products that intentionally are supposed to give good colours (IE photography lighting), I think a HCRI is absolutely essential. If its for applications where the HCRI is not going to make a difference in the products end user experience, then maybe there not so important.

Its completely depends on the user, product, cost and end result desired. :+1:

Agreed. Need that red in the high CRI to get the beautiful rosy tint we all love.

Unfortunately, the 219b just doesn’t cut it for my uses these days. Output is far too low compared to modern emitters.

The tint can be rosy regardless of high Ra or R9.

Recalling the Prime XHP35. Mine is also extremely rosy - much more so to my eyes than a 219B sw45k.

In your post above you said this

Stay tuned for our next episode, Debunking the Myth that Low CRI NW shows colors as well as High CRI NW…

No ones saying it shows colors just as good as high cri. What everyone’s been saying to them a warmer tint cct whatever you want to call it makes a bigger difference in colors to them compared to adding high cri. And the difference isn’t big enough for them to go strictly to high cri. No ones disagreeing completely that high cri won’t show colors better. Just for the last majority of users. Going from 6500k to 4500-5k makes a more meaningful difference for them. Then going from 70 to 90 cri.

Everyone has their own preference. A few people prefer only high cri that’s fine. Others are happy with low cri 4500k lights.

I’ve been comparing my lights in person 5000k 219c 90 cri to my low cri 5000k lights. Yes stuff looks a little better. The red roofed dog house outside looks better. But to me the difference isn’t drastic enough. To go high cri and nothing else. The light just burns more amps and gets hot faster for less return in output. So yes I’d prefer 4500 5000k and more output for the same or lower Amps. Dropping from 6500 to 4500 is a much more drastic change to my eyes. The high cri just isn’t as important. I just need to light up a big area. Usually set up around 10 lights. Or if I’m at work painting I need more light to see. Just to make sure no runs are forming and can see how much paint is coming out. My overhead lights get covered in overspray and don’t always have time to clean them before the next trailer. It’s one of the same 4 colors. Even being a painter I don’t need the extra cri. One of which is red. As long as I can see how the paint is laying out and the flow that’s all I need I don’t need to see the color of the paint in ultra HD detail. I need more brightness then color detail. When the trailer is done being painted the color is always the same for the customer. Just my uses everyones needs are different.


no shortage of CRI Ra and R9 in his monitor

I started the false rumor that R9 affects rosy tint, but I have learned from maukka that Tint is separate from CRI
here are two lights with neutral tint (I do not mean CCT), both have negative R9 and low CRI Ra
(images clipped from maukka’s post here: Olight H2R review (Headlamp/right angle, 18650, XHP50) )

but their low CRI Ra and R9 make red things look brown

fwiw, I just received my first NW low CRI light. I bought it to learn what people are talking about when they say their NW low CRI led looks like a Nichia.
As expected the tint is piss yellow, I see no resemblance to a Nichia.

I do not share your opinion. Color temperature changes are not the same as CRI changes, to me. A NW Low CRI light does not show colors the way a NW High CRI light does.

Hand Palms, to demontrate the difference in CRI

Both the Worm and the Utorch are NW, look at the coral, which LED makes it most Red?

here is an example of why I do not consider foliage a valid test of CRI


can you see that the Low CRI is very good at enhancing green?
That does not mean that Low CRI, be it NW or not, is good at showing colors.

I can tell by the conviction of your words that you have stones. I’m not sure I need to see them though. :smiley:

Like I said above I can see a difference. With my two high cri lights and in the pictures. I don’t know the effect the camera and monitor play but yes the reds are more vibrant. Even on my red dog house I see it. But in my day to day uses. It just doesn’t matter matter to me as much. It’s not a deal breaker. And when I take my daughters to the park at night. It’s not lit at all basically I make a circle of 8 to 10 lights. High cri isn’t a priority. I need output, and decent run times at a higher output. Your needs are different then mine and others. When I hear the cat fighting with the racoon outside. I don’t think let me grab my high cri light. I just grab a light I know is a few thousand lumens and run it away. I don’t need to see the raccoon in more vibrant color. Just to see it