FW3A, a TLF/BLF EDC flashlight - SST-20 available, coupon codes public

[teacher]

@ TK…… I say do whatever you think is best in the big scheme of things. :+1:

[ToyKeeper]

@PBWilson

I use my D4 less often than I intended to when I bought it because of the potential for burned fingers and lighting pants on fire

Exactly.

The FW3A implements a few things to reduce the heat issues compared to a D4…

• Three emitters instead of four.
• Regulated output up to ~1100 lm instead of ~150 lm.
• Button on tail instead of side, so it’s harder to hit by accident.
• Much faster access to lockout, and less need to exit lockout for quick tasks.
• User-adjustable ramp ends, so the ceiling can be lowered.
• Default ceiling is ~1100 lm instead of full turbo (though turbo is still accessible).
• Smoother regulation which is less prone to overshooting and oscillating.
• Temperature sensor calibration, for more consistent and predictable behavior.
• Muggle mode, for use while lending the light to others.

… but it has less thermal mass and is still rather overpowered on turbo. The highest mode is like 500% of its sustainable power level, and the potential change would make it drop down faster to ~150% or ~200% where the regular algorithm works better.

[Scallywag]

I think you should err towards B as well. Whether it's the full-on "drop straight to regulated" or altering the ramp-down to be a lot more aggressive, it seems clear the "invisible" stepdown just doesn't work. It wouldn't on the D4 either. About how long will it run on turbo before stepdown?

[Eraursls1984]

I definitely think the quicker step down should be standard. If there is enough memory, maybe an option can be added to turn it off in programming.

[bento_blf]

If not too late, please put me in the list for one (1).
Thanks

[cabfrank]

Option A.

[klrman]

I'm in for one thanks.

[ARMS.AARON]

Please add me to the list for one!

Respectfully

[pepinfaxera]

@ARMS.AARON

Please add me to the list for one!

Respectfully

You are number No. #728 on: Interest List , Post # 4 , ” Page 1 , “:FW3A, a TLF/BLF EDC flashlight - SST-20 available, coupon codes public - #4 by FW3A_Team

See:

@ARMS.AARON

My Q8 is sweet apple pie!

Please put me on the list for 1 of these. … Cheers , See # Post : Fri, 10/20/2017 - 13:19

For a total of 1 lights .
How many Flashlight do you want in total? … x … units? .

[Noir]

I would prefer option B (with a fast but smooth step-down over the course of a few seconds).

I don't like lights that can become too hot to hold (and I don't want to have to worry about the light). Also if the light becomes too hot (with option A) it could potentially cause the thermal regulation to overshoot (which is of course undesirable).

BTW: have options to lower the sensor lag been discussed? For example these silicone rubber things could improve things a bit.

[JasonWW]

@pepinfaxera

@ARMS.AARON

Please add me to the list for one!

Respectfully

You are number No. #728 on: Interest List , Post # 4 , ” Page 1 , “:FW3A, a TLF/BLF EDC flashlight - SST-20 available, coupon codes public - #4 by FW3A_Team

See:

@ARMS.AARON

My Q8 is sweet apple pie!

Please put me on the list for 1 of these. … Cheers , See # Post : Fri, 10/20/2017 - 13:19

For a total of 1 lights .
How many Flashlight do you want in total? … x … units? .

Pepinfaxera, sometimes people forget they already joined the list. If they ask for one light multiple times, they are still asking for just one light.

[pepinfaxera]

@JasonWW

. Sometimes people forget they already joined the list. If they ask for one light multiple times, they are still asking for just one light.

But, you must ask them

[pepinfaxera]

@ToyKeeper

What do people prefer?

• Smooth but slow universal method which allows full turbo to run longer but may require the user to exercise common sense and turn the brightness down manually sometimes.
  .
  * Fast drop to a hardcoded level which is safer but may potentially be a little oversensitive and uses code instead of common sense to enforce “turbo is for brief use only”. .

Coffee without coffee?
Powerful flashlight without power?
.
*That’s a lot of 3000 lumen? Make it 2500 lumen.
.
5 or 10 second turbo? I don’t accept it.
If that’s what it is, I don’t buy.*
.
I have two, D4 Emisar, with Nichia 219CT 83CRI, 5000K and XP-L hi,
Nicha gets very hot.
XP-L hi also heats up, but less so.
Step Down works
and the leds don’t burn out.

@ToyKeeper

The FW3A implements a few things to reduce the heat issues compared to a D4…

• Three emitters instead of four.
• Regulated output up to ~1100 lm instead of ~150 lm.
• Button on tail instead of side, so it’s harder to hit by accident.
• Much faster access to lockout, and less need to exit lockout for quick tasks.
• User-adjustable ramp ends, so the ceiling can be lowered.
• Default ceiling is ~1100 lm instead of full turbo (though turbo is still accessible).
• Smoother regulation which is less prone to overshooting and oscillating.
• Temperature sensor calibration, for more consistent and predictable behavior.
• Muggle mode, for use while lending the light to others.

@ToyKeeper

… but it has less thermal mass and is still rather overpowered on turbo…

[ARMS.AARON]

My bad.!

Just one light please!

[Agro]

@ToyKeeper

A question about thermal regulation:

At the moment, Anduril uses a thermal regulation method which knows nothing about the actual host characteristics or driver. It simply senses “overheating” or “underheating” like a user-adjustable thermostat, with some information about magnitude, like the degrees of excess multiplied by how long it has been in that condition. From this, it attempts to find a happy medium, with the adjustment speed determined by the magnitude. It’s fairly universal and typically works well with no need to hardcode anything about the host itself. Also, the adjustments are so smooth they’re basically invisible without a lux meter.

But.

On such a small and overpowered light, like the FW3A, overheating can happen so fast that it barely even has time to react. By the time it senses that things are trending too high, the light could already by too hot to touch. It works fine on a larger host like a Q8, or at a more reasonable power level like 3 Amps, because sensor lag is much less of a factor there.

So I’m wondering if I should change it. It currently regulates fine from the default ceiling level of ~1100 lm, but it doesn’t drop fast enough from full turbo.

Instead, I could make it drop immediately (or at least very very quickly) to the highest regulated level of ~1100 lm whenever it senses any overheating condition while the FET is active. Even if it’s over by just 1 degree for just a few seconds, it’d trigger a full turbo step-down and shut off the direct drive circuit. Maybe it’d still do the smooth ramp-down, but it would no longer be invisible — it’d be fast enough to see, like 4 seconds. And since there’s thermal lag, it might continue to regulate downward for bit afterward, overshooting its ideal target level, but at least the host wouldn’t get anywhere near as hot as a slower method.

Although dropping from 100% power to ~25% power is a huge change in the amount of heat generated, to the eye it looks more like it’s going from 100% to 80%. Effectively, it looks like dropping only one level.

So.

What do people prefer?

• Smooth but slow universal method which allows full turbo to run longer but may require the user to exercise common sense and turn the brightness down manually sometimes.
• Fast drop to a hardcoded level which is safer but may potentially be a little oversensitive and uses code instead of common sense to enforce “turbo is for brief use only”.

There is also still a muggle mode, which probably couldn’t start a fire even if someone wrapped it in dark-colored insulation with a low ignition temperature. So, use that for the kids. The question is how it should behave in non-muggle mode.

D4 managed to have a generic algorithm. Is FW3A hardware harder to regulate?

On which side of the driver is the MCU? Does if face battery of shelf?
Maybe it would be possible to shorten the thermal path by installing a silicone cube or adding a blob of thermal glue in the factory?

[ToyKeeper]

@Noir

BTW: have options to lower the sensor lag been discussed? For example these silicone rubber things could improve things a bit.

@Agro

D4 managed to have a generic algorithm. Is FW3A hardware harder to regulate?
On which side of the driver is the MCU? Does if face battery of shelf?
Maybe it would be possible to shorten the thermal path by installing a silicone cube or adding a blob of thermal glue in the factory?

There’s really not room for a thermal cube. A blob of thermal glue between the MCPCB shelf and MCU might work, but then it makes the light significantly less mod-friendly.

The D4’s regulation algorithm worked, but its initial peak was too hot and it had a tendency to overshoot, oscillate, and jump around. It has a reputation as a firestarter or a “nut roaster”. The FW3A improves on those things, but the initial peak is still too hot. So I’m pondering whether to make it initially act more like a turbo step-down before handing control back to the usual regulation algorithm.

In either case, the user can still force it to stay at turbo by setting the ceiling to max, ramping up to it, and holding the button down. Or they can change the thermal config values to make it run hotter, which will extend the turbo time.

[varbos]

My intention is to leave ceiling at 1100 lm (or even lower it some) so I don’t really have a preference about thermal regulation at higher levels.

[yokomus]

I’ll sign up for one more light, making it a total of two (2) to my name.

Need one as backup/giveaway

[Yohan110]

I would prefer option B. I always prefer one or two hard drops vs a slow dimming.

[Tom_Tom]

TK, could it be that your thermal control works better at the lower levels because a lot of the heat is being generated in the 7135s rather than the LED. The 7135s being closely thermally coupled to the MCU and its internal temperature sensor. I suspect you are mostly controlling the temperature of the driver, not the LEDs.

ISTM there are two cases here:

A: Power (manageable) burned off in the 7135s, controllable. Driver temperature is a reasonable indication of overall head temperature.

B: FET in use, power (lots) burned off in the LEDs, no good thermal path to MCU, long time constants, driver runs relatively cool since most current passes straight through the FET.

Without having a temperature sensor on the LED MCPCB itself, I suspect trying to control it in B: is a difficult exercise. So a timed step-down bringing the 7135s back into use seems the most practical way forward.

Otherwise I think you would need two different control algorithms, but then it gets even more complicated as cell voltage drops, and in the transition region between 7135 only, and full FET.

TBH getting rid of the FET could make things much easier. A straight linear driver is the way to go in future IMO.