Test/review of Samsung INR21700-40T 4000mAh (Cyan)

@wolfdog, actually, their ratings are not false most of the time, if done by the original manufacturer

Let’s not forget manufacturers test capacity down to 2,5V, or even lower, while HKJ tests them down to 2,8V, and in a controlled environment with specific charge parameters.

I’m not saying HKJ is wrong. His testing method is more realistic and takes into account uncertainties. However, the manufacturers are not lying about their capacity at 0,2C down to 2,5V, most of the time of course.

Thank you for the nice review.

I think it’s you who may have been mislead by the manufacturers. You seem to be mixing up the measurements.

There is continous output, like HKJ and Mooch measure, and then there is a different measurement which the manufacturers use and is misleading if you don’t read the fine print.

Continous discharge means you apply a load and it can go from fully charged to empty without exceeding “safe” temperature limits. HKJ will need to say what that is. I think 60°C to 70°C?

The manufacturers use a higher discharge rating that will exceed their own safe operating parameters, meaning it goes over 80°C. Just look at the tests above. Who is going to be monitoring their battery temperatures to know when to turn down the current? No one. So don’t be fooled by them.

Just like with every battery, of course you can exceed their continous output ratings, you just have to remember that it can only do this for a short amount of time.

Some wrappers are even flaunting “35A continous discharge” and putting “up to 80°C” in fine print. Please don’t be fooled by this. Some people already posted that Efest Orbtronic was superior because the wrapper said it was 35A continous. Again, don’t be fooled or mislead.

Mooch has given the 40T a slightly higher continous rating of 25A.

@BlueSwordM.

This is what I meant. Jason was more detailed and factual than I was.

Yeah the manufacturers also take their specs to the limit, and are slightly misleading in terms of power ratings.

They usually don’t lie about capacity by their testing methods.

But yeah, they could be better.

This is interesting news. I had not heard about it, nor have I ever heard about the new 50G. Thanks for the update.

Some batteries stay in production many years before being replaced. You can buy Panasonic NCR18650B 3400mah everywhere, but that battery came out in mid 2014, if not earlier. So at least 4 years.

I think the 40T came out in late 2017, so only 1 year old and it’s already replaced. Hmmm.

I couldn’t find any info on the 50G, maybe you meant the 50E? It seems they are just coming out onto the market. None of the US stores I use carry them yet. I only see them for sale on ebay. I guess in the next few months they will start becoming more common.

Given that every last cylindrical LiIon cell is specified and sold for use in some sort of managed application, like a battery pack, it is absolutely realistic and honest that their testing and specifications include caveats like temperature limits.

We’re the ones using cells outside their intended application. Don’t be fooled into thinking otherwise.

HJK and Mooches tests are invaluable not because they show the manufacturers up, but because they fill in the blanks between the manufactuers specs and what we need to know for our applications.

That the people wrapping/package and selling these cells are misrepresenting manufacturers specs is a separate issue. The blame for that falls on the wrappers/sellers, not the cell manufacturers.

This is common as well. There are different charge rates for every battery depending on whether you want max life or not. The capacity is going to slowly be reduced everytime you recharge it anyway, some charge rates reduce it a bit quicker than others.

21700 flashlights are slowly coming out. Most are pretty expensive though. I just bought the Sofirn C8F 21700 for $36 shipped including a 4000mah battery and a simple charger. I think this is the cheapest 21700 light I’ve seen so far.

To clarify, I was refering to flashlight users such as all of us here. We don’t monitor battery temps in flashlights (unless we need to).

I’m sure these new higher ratings the manufacturers are using are more for vehicle use where they are water cooled and monitored closely. Or tool use or vacuum use etc… where temperatures can at least be monitored.

We are just low-tech bums. We have to take the battery out of our flashlight and measure the temperature by hand and go “Ewww boy, that sure feels hot!”. Lol

HERE is the:

Samsung INR21700-50E Rechargeable 10a High Drain Battery 5000mAh flat top.

“IF” those specs are right it is Only 10A Not 20/25A like the 40T.

A modern high capacity battery is never going to match the output of a high current battery. The manufacturers are able to tweak their chemical mix to either maximize capacity or current or anywhere in between. This is why the 30T has the highest current, but the lowest capacity and the 50E has the highest capacity but lowest current. Then the 40T is right in the middle between current and capacity.

(I’m talking about continuous current ratings like HKJ and Mooch use)

^
Right.I understand that.

The reason I said that[10A only] is because Hydraxx said the 50T[50E?] is replacing the 40T. So one would assume it would be an Upgrade in capacity and output,at least that is how I would interpret it.

He said 50G replaced 48G, but nobody can find anything about 50G.

Your right!! My bad!! :open_mouth:

,T, G, E,It is getting all mixed up and confusing!

No, I did say 50G, the 50E it, is a different version, with a different chemistry and a different life because it is originally intended for the electric vehicle industry specifically, the first versions of test ( TestBuild in Samsung jargon) with an inscription “EV21700-50G” on the cell, “EV” as you would guess for “Electric Vehicle”. And indeed you will find little reference to 50G because initially they were sold almost exclusively in closed market (reserved for professionals and industry), the only ones to my knowledge to have obtained a significant amount of these cells 50G is VapCell and still it did not last, they quickly replaced by LG M50 in their “VapCell Purple 21700 5000mAh 10A”: the first versions sold were Samsung 50G then once their stock of 50G exhausted, they passed on LG M50s that are equivalent in terms of performance (although the capacity of the M50 is a little better in practice of about 50-100mAh).

Here is the news confirming what I say about the Samsung 50G replaced by LG M50, on the VapCell website: http://www.vapcelltech.com/index.php/Show/index/cid/44/id/11 .html

And a photo of a cell “TestBuild” Samsung 50G with the inscription EV on its metal cylinder:

Treat me as a liar, it will be more direct and less cowardly on your part, seriously, I would win what to lie to you, for proof: A big French company of the energy field lists in its data the Samsung INR21700-50G: https: // www.arts-energy.com/fr/solutions/accumulateurs-li-ion/gamme-li-ion-power/, it’s still a crazy thing on this forum, as soon as we say something that other users do not know and we are recently registered on this forum, we are considered a liar, I am getting a little tired of proving my good faith, do I treat you as a liar or even I sub- hear, yet I do not know you?

Calmly, we’re all here to share our knowledge and debate, that’s how a community learns and evolves, not pulling around and being suspicious of each other.

It’s easier to just disregard pretty much all of what he says as a rule of thumb

Dude, relax. I did not call you a liar. All I stated is that we couldn’t find anything about 50G. Please don’t get offended by things I did not say. :slight_smile:

I received my battery order from 18650batterystore.com and took capacity measurements with my Xtar VP4 Plus Dragon charger:

Samsung 21700 30T (not rewrap) : 3,171 mah

Efest 21700 5000mah: 5,035 mah (Mooch said it’s probably an LG M50 inside)

QSO Samsung 21700 40T (red wrapper): 4,091, 4,013 mah

Vapcell 21700 40T (gold color wrapper): 4,038 mah

Vapcell 21700 VTC6A (black color wrapper): 4,186 mah (This one has the QR code square at the bottom. Mooch said the older versions do not have it and have slightly less capacity)

QSO Sony 21700 VTC6A (black color wrapper): 4,055, 4,022 mah (This one is odd because the charge capacity are 4,2xx, which is 200mah higher than the measured discharge capacity. Usually the charge and discharge capacity are very close within 50mah. Mooch got 4,1xx mah on the samples from the same store. This also has the QR code. Maybe my charger terminated the discharge a little too soon on these)

I think the VTC6A might be a slightly better battery than the 40T just like the VTC6 is better than the 30Q. Mooch rates the VTC6A at 30A continuous. I hope HKJ can test the VTC6A soon so we can have it in the comparator

It’s better to calm down. Nobody it trying to get you. We are just trying to learn. We flashlight guys don’t usually learn of a new battery until it’s available for retail sales so we can be a bit behind the times.

Do you have any idea of the difference between the 50G and 50E? Maybe they are the same battery just sold to different markets? I really can’t see any difference. They should both have the same capacity and current output.