Future development of the maximum luminance of LEDs

[Texas_Ace]

I am not able to keep up with the latest developments in LED tech now days. If ya’ll find the “perfect throw king” LED let me know.

I have a few lights that might work well with a super thrower LED like these if they pan out.

[Enderman]

@led4power

@Enderman

I’m still waiting on my CSLNM1 LEDs to arrive

Maybe reason is this?:

https://budgetlightforum.com/t/-/54055

Yeah probably.
Some of my international packages came in, others no.
It will just take a long while, not your fault.

[luminarium_iaculator]

@Enderman

More watts and same cooling pad area = worse performance as you increase the current.

Yes that happens in mine host. But for couple of seconds mine tested White flat 2mm at 9-10A has same or slightly better performance as tested White flat 1mm driven at 5.8A.

There is still that 10% of lux variations that can happen between emitters so if you got worse 1mm and better 2mm wf could actually win imho.

So this is obviously emitter for someone like you Enderman. Better cooling methods etc… Really don’t know why you don’t have wish to try it. You will have to wait for a long time until HX appears

[Enderman]

@luminarium iaculator

@Enderman

More watts and same cooling pad area = worse performance as you increase the current.

Yes that happens in mine host. But for couple of seconds mine tested White flat 2mm at 9-10A has same or slightly better performance as tested White flat 1mm driven at 5.8A.

There is still that 10% of lux variations that can happen between emitters so if you got worse 1mm and better 2mm wf could actually win imho.

So this is obviously emitter for someone like you Enderman. Better cooling methods etc… Really don’t know why you don’t have wish to try it. You will have to wait for a long time until HX appears

The transient temperature response will be completely different for both LEDs.
The reason the 1mm is getting worse performance is probably because 5.8A is past the peak of the output curve, while the 2mm is still not at its peak at 9-10A.
The proper way to compare them is to put them on a proper CPU heatsink, make current-output curves to find the peak of the curve (at steady state obviously, not only after a few seconds), and then compare the peak luminance at those peaks.

Once the post strike in canada finished I will immediately buy a few CSLPM1.TGs to test and I’ll show you what I mean.

[luminarium_iaculator]

XP-E2(the best version is torch i think) is beaten by larger brother XP-G2?

Imho there are plenty of stuff that can strike us like bad re flow, bad emitter pick, thermal path, so you never can be 100% sure…

I will place bet on 2mm version anyway. Looking forward for your test.

[The_Driver1 (The_Driver)]

I have added the new Osram LEDs. The thermal resistance of the Boost HX shows why it will probably be way better than all the others.

[ImA4Wheelr]

I have no idea how this project product compares to crystals, sintered phosphor, etc. PDF claims it has taken 445nm laser powers up to 30W/mm2 on metal and on glass substrates. Has 96CRI at 5500K tint option. Seems like it would be handy for replacing damage phosphor layers on flip chip LED’s.

datasheet-phosphor-sheets.pdf

@Enderman

The crystals have basically no drop in output till 300C This means you can have a pretty intense laser directed at it without damage. One university tested up to 14W of blue laser and got 4000lm but it was spread over a large 5mm crystal IIRC, not all in a concentrated spot. The crystal was not heatsinked to anything either. These are my main resources: High luminous flux from single crystal phosphor-converted laser-based white lighting system ECS Journal of Solid State Science and Technology - IOPscience <a href="https://www.swissphotonics.net/libraries.files/Rossetti.pdf

">https://www.swissphotonics.net/libraries.files/Rossetti.pdf
[/quote]

[twisted_raven]

Does anybody have anything on the Boost HX recently?

[everydaysurvivalgear]

Any one going to add the info on the SST20?

[Agro]

The_Driver, could you please add Lumileds Luxeon CZ to the table?
It seems to have the lowest thermal resistance of any 1 mm² LEDs that I’ve seen. Though I’m not sure if they mean real or electrical resistance, the datasheet is unclear about that. If that’s electrical - it’s still very good but no longer special.

Though then there’s a tiny thermal pad which will spoil performance for sure. If indium solder really brings actual improvements, these are going to be relatively high with this LED.

ADDED: This Luxeon C document (not CZ) makes me believe they mean electrical resistance. I’m not really surprised….still, resistance is good and I think this LED should easily get intense enough to deserve a its place in the table on the first page.

[The_Driver1 (The_Driver)]

I have added it, maybe you can help me fill some of the data fields.
I’m very sceptical regarding the maximum performance.

[Agro]

I don’t expect it to play in the same league as automotive LEDs really.
But:

• very small footprint may be good for tight packing multiple LEDs
• it goes up to CRI90

And I think it’s likely to be the throwiest LED on the market with CRI>70.

Area of the heat conducting solder pad:
1.08 mm²
max. rated LED temperature Tj:
135°C

Other fields need testing.

[Agro]

Luminus SST-20 CRI95 seems to be over 100 cd/mm² though the precision of my calculations is too low to call it definitive:

Are there any long throw high CRI lights at all?

OK, I’m out of data. In my previous post you can see the estimated surface luminosity of SST-20, both domed and dedomed, based on comparison with known emitters. I could do also a direct comparison with XP-L HD but I lack sufrace luminosity data for it. I could estimate that…but it would be cumbersome and imprecise. So…there’s a lot of noise in the data. I don’t know what is the reason. The best result is 38% higher than the worst…and neither is a lone outlier. The average surface luminosity …

CRI70 variant is over 100 for sure. I’m sure I’ve see it tested somewhere but can’t find it now….

[led4power]

.

[contactcr]

Boost HX or colored flat?

[Agro]

Looks like 1 mm²!!??
Haven’t heard about it before but CULNM1.TG is a thing:
https://www.arrow.com/en/products/kw-culnm1.tg-z8pf5-ebvffcbb46-65g5/osram-opto-semiconductors
ADDED:
And Osram is phasing it out:
https://www.mouser.com/PCN/Osram_Opto_Semiconductor_1_cip_OS_NFND_2018_008.pdf

[djozz]

4040-size and 1mm2 die, hmmm

[luminarium_iaculator]

Throw the bone to the dogs L4P

It looks like 2mm2 led to me… But lets wait and see what will L4P say.

[Agro]

1 mm², CULNM1.TG aka Boost HL. And it’s already tested:

OSRAM CSLNM1.TG & CULNM1.TG 1mm², CSLPM1.TG & CULPM1.TG 2mm²

[image] KW CULNM1.TG is 4.0x4.0mm version of KW CSLNM1.TG (or 1mm2 version of Oslon boost HX), with lower thermal resistance, I tested two 5Q bin samples under same conditions (fan cooled heatsink), results: [image] So we got the first white LED that broke 1000lm/mm2 barrier (by a decent margin in case of higher performing sample)[image] What can be seen from numbers is two samples are within 5Q bin rating (710 - 800lm@3A), but one is at bottom and other is closer to upper level. 5Q bin i…

[luminarium_iaculator]

Than it seems we spammed The Drivers thread