Thanks HKJ. I was waiting to see this one in your comparator! Now just waiting for you to add the Samsung, LG, Sony 5000mah 21700 cells

This is one I was really curious about. Thanks HKJ!!!

Thanks for the review. The comparator shows exactly what you described this cell as,,,,,,,,,,,good capacity and fair current.

As expected my Samsung 40T has MUCH less voltage sag. Especially at 10/15 and 20amps.,,,,and less capacity.

The 40T is much better for my application.,,,,,,,,,,modded T27

wolfdog1226 wrote:

Thanks for the review. The comparator shows exactly what you described this cell as,,,,,,,,,,,good capacity and fair current.

As expected my Samsung 40T has MUCH less voltage sag. Especially at 10/15 and 20amps.,,,,and less capacity.

The 40T is much better for my application.,,,,,,,,,,modded T27

That’s a cool story

SKV89 …….

….. but it would be quite interesting to see a comparison between Vapcell 21700 5000 ….. and ….. Panasonic NCR 21700 A 5000 ……

I’m right Vapcell Dennis ?

Thanks HKJ! This cell is a strange one - it does under perform, as expected, compared to the high amp cells. But I'm seeing some odd behavior in the charger. I set my SkyRC MC3000 to charge to 4.22V, so when I take the cells off, usually they read at 4.21 or 4.20V. For this VapCell 5000, it takes a long time to get to the 4.22V level, longer than any other new 18650 or 21700 cell I have, but some old cells behave this way. Then once fully charged, it drops fast - luckily if I can get it off the charger above 4.18V. In fact the first time, I pulled it off, measured at 4.18V, then the next day just sitting on the bench, it measured 4.13V. I have to see if this droppage is consistent - maybe it's a first time issue.

It's weird you measured such a low resistance - usually low resistance and high amps go together. Also capacity is lower than the rating even at a 0.2 amp draw.

So far to me, mine has characteristics of an old cell - hope I didn't get a bad one. I only bought one as well so can't compare it.

There is a chance you got a low binned old cell that sat in a warehouse perhaps fully charge for a long time.

While the internal resistance of a cell during discharge does not go up much with age with modern chemistries, acceptability of charge during the CV phase is affected by cycle life/age.

There is a possibility your cell was not 100% fully charge in the CV phase, so, when left to rest, the resting voltage goes down to around 4,10V-4,15V.

However, when tested, almost all the capacity is retained, so it’s only a problem with max SOC.

Great review as usual. Only your numbers I use as official specs when buying!

Good to see more 21700’s are tested. I hope you will make a special 21700 section in your comparator.

Now all I need is a good 21700 light

Also in the 26650 list… that’s good.

Don’t get me wrong, I’m happy with the wealth of test results in your comparator; but if you decide on a redesign…
It may be nice to have all tests of all sizes in one huge comparator.
Then the user can filter of type, drain and capacity.

For my use that would be great. For example I use the highest capacity 18650 found in your tests. The only 21700’s I’m interested are the ones above that capacity. I don’t need very high drain cells so I would for example filter 21700, 4200 mAh @5A
People that love extreme lights likely will use a far higher drain setting.

Maybe I’m asking/suggesting way too much, but I think it would a very useful upgrade of your site for many.

Maybe a webdesign ace on this forum is willing to help you.

Another nice thing, without graphs, would be a huge downloadable spreadsheet.
Add a few filters.
The user can then filter, sort, delete, add personal notes, etc

HKJ wrote:

ZoomieFan wrote:

Another nice thing, without graphs, would be a huge downloadable spreadsheet. Add a few filters. The user can then filter, sort, delete, add personal notes, etc

What I might be able to do is a online table (Like my chargers and multimeter tables), but with filters instead of sorting, but what to include in this type of table?
Battery name, battery size, date tested, button top, capacity at 0.2A, capacity at 3A, capacity at 10A, capacity at 20A

If you also make the spreadsheet downloadble the possibilities are only limited by the users Excel skills.

I think most people are after: Size and capacity at a certain drain.

Personally I have zero interest in:
- 18650’s below 3200 mAh regardless of the max drain.
- 21700’s below 4500 mAh regardless of the max drain.

Likewise high-drain fanatics filter away everything below 30A.

So a fully set filter could look like:
Flat top, 21700, >4500mAh @5A

Using filters that way would greatly reduce the list the user has to research by reading the reviews.

Very often you give cells some sort of rating in your reviews. You could add a score field. But perhaps that’s not needed because junk cells won’t pass a filter anyway.

Something like that would be a huge step forward!

vapcell Dennis wrote:

shadockan wrote:

SKV89 …….

….. but it would be quite interesting to see a comparison between Vapcell 21700 5000 ….. and ….. Panasonic NCR 21700 A 5000 ……

I’m right Vapcell Dennis ?

vapcell 21700 5000mah 10A ，sanyo NCR21700A rewarpped， the same battery

I know Dennis.
That’s why I wrote it this way.
It is very good for a company to tell the truth.

It is not a bad idea for the company to say which battery it uses under its cover.
On the contrary.
This makes consumers show confidence in this company.

Bravo Vapcell Dennis and thank you.
Go on like this …

For those who do not know, Panasonic and Sanyo are the same company.
Panasonic bought Sanyo a few years ago.

I wrote this so as not to confuse someone watching me I was going to mention it
Panasonic NCR21700A
and Dennis to write about
Sanyo NCR21700A

It’s the same battery.

shadockan wrote:

It is not a bad idea for the company to say which battery it uses under its cover.
On the contrary.
This makes consumers show confidence in this company.

True ZoomieFan.
But think about this:
- A company that does not say what battery it uses can cause a serious accident to the user who will rely on what the cover says.
Even more Amperes are listed on the cover that can discharge a battery if I know what the manufacturer says, I will use the battery with the data reported by the manufacturer.

I do not need to mention older bad situations that we all have seen on a video or even a personal level …..

ZoomieFan wrote:

And… less sales.
Rewraps are for generating extra cash.

JasonWW wrote:

ZoomieFan wrote:

And… less sales. Rewraps are for generating extra cash.

What? You make no sense.

Quote:

vapcell 21700 5000mah 10A ，sanyo NCR21700A rewarpped， the same battery Smile

If everyone buys the Sanyo, Vapcell would make no $ on battery sales.
If everyone buys rewraps then capcell does make some extra $ on battery sales.
Really it’s that easy.

I think ZoomieFan means … less revenue for the rewrap company.
If I know which battery is, why should I get the rewrap?

That’s what I think it means.

He’s right … if he means that …
But it’s rare to copy a rewrap company …
I do not see a gain as opposed to the profit it will have if I copied an authentic battery …
…… as a cover I mean of course …..

(ZoomieFan ….. you are fast … hahaha)

shadockan wrote:

True ZoomieFan.
But think about this:
- A company that does not say what battery it uses can cause a serious accident to the user who will rely on what the cover says.
Even more Amperes are listed on the cover that can discharge a battery if I know what the manufacturer says, I will use the battery with the data reported by the manufacturer.

I do not need to mention older bad situations that we all have seen on a video or even a personal level …..

My point is/was: Sanyo, Samsung, and a few others make very good cells.
The company could have advised those cells.
Rewarpping a Sanyo doesn’t improve its quality somehow.

ZoomieFan wrote:

shadockan wrote:

True ZoomieFan.
But think about this:
- A company that does not say what battery it uses can cause a serious accident to the user who will rely on what the cover says.
Even more Amperes are listed on the cover that can discharge a battery if I know what the manufacturer says, I will use the battery with the data reported by the manufacturer.

I do not need to mention older bad situations that we all have seen on a video or even a personal level …..

Sure. My post was just a short statement. No in depth discussion.
I 100% agree there are very bad cells that are not even worth looking at. Everyone reading HKJ’s tests know that.

My point is/was: Sanyo, Samsung, and a few others make very good cells.
The company could have advised those cells.
Rewarpping a Sanyo doesn’t improve its quality somehow.

Exactly my friend …

shadockan wrote:

I think ZoomieFan means … less revenue for the rewrap company.
If I know which battery is, why should I get the rewrap?

That’s what I think it means.

Quote:

He’s right … if he means that …

Quote:

But it’s rare to copy a rewrap company …

Quote:

I do not see a gain as opposed to the profit it will have if I copied an authentic battery …

Or even more illegal, buy junk batteries at $0.50/each and then rewrap and cell as something good and famous.

Dennis I have experience similar to what you wrote.
I bought authentic batteries … and it was only authentic as a name.

This is the problem.
I use long enough authentic … but also rewrap batteries.
Many times I buy rewrap to avoid monkey batteries …, knowing of course exactly what battery I buy …..
That’s why I do not mind if she writes Sanyo or Vapcell the cover …

ZoomieFan …
I do not disagree with you …
Just copy a copy, I do not think it’s the best if you want to sell ….

Vapcell, Enercig, Keeppower, Orbtronic, Fenix, AW, Redilast ….. and others are all companies that put different batteries under their covers …
Mostly from good battery manufacturers.
These companies do not consider them the same value as some others … that we all know …. No need for names I believe …

Vapcell, for some time now, seems to want to show the world her good face.
For me, this is absolutely positive.

In the past I have been fighting with some company rewrap here.
The reason was that he tried to fool us that he was making batteries, and many people from here in our hands had our batteries, we opened them and we mentioned that it is the Samsung 25R.

How can I now trust such a company?
On Enercig, I will give confidence because on top of her covers or even on the company’s website if you get in, you will see that in many batteries it has original covers and has just placed a card in the battery with its name.
So I know from the beginning what I will buy …

That’s what I liked and what Dennis wrote ….
The truth …

vapcell Dennis wrote:

ZoomieFan wrote:

shadockan wrote:

I think ZoomieFan means … less revenue for the rewrap company.
If I know which battery is, why should I get the rewrap?

That’s what I think it means.

Exactly. More brands means a bigger chance to find a good deal

Quote:

He’s right … if he means that …

He does.

Quote:

But it’s rare to copy a rewrap company …

Not copying the rewrap (Vapcell) company.
Just Vapcell rewrapping Sanyo and then sell it as their own. That way they make some cash instead of only Sanyo.

Quote:

I do not see a gain as opposed to the profit it will have if I copied an authentic battery …

I can imagine there is a profit in it. Numbers as a way of explanation.
Sanyo sells cells for $2/each.
A famous company rewarps them, adds some marketing claims and sells then for $10/each.
Then a copycat rewraps the Sanyo’s with the same wrap and sells them for $5/each.

Or even more illegal, buy junk batteries at $0.50/each and then rewrap and cell as something good and famous.

Haha, this is too exaggerated.

Distributors know what batteries are made and can only operate at a small profit.

The market is transparent.

As a result, fewer and fewer rewarp batteries will appear in the market in the future.

After all, reprocessing also consumes processing costs.

In a transparent market, it is not dominant.

Dennis …..
Remember the Gearbest rewrap batteries of the AWT ….
There were AWT batteries and AWT rewrap rewrap batteries.

There are many more ………….

vapcell Dennis wrote:

vapcell 21700 5000mah 10A ，sanyo NCR21700A rewarpped， the same battery

I am quite sure that Dennis means vapcell 21700 5000mah 15A = sanyo NCR21700A rewrapped. Vapcell 21700 5000mAh 10A are based on LG or Samsung cells.