FW3A, a TLF/BLF EDC flashlight - SST-20 available, coupon codes public

Tom Tom, please drop the subject.

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Thanks for the info. It seems as if it may be a while yet then.
Repeating myself, I hope there will be a final prototype sent to TK, and others, before production begins.
It would definitely be better to identify any issues beforehand.

+2
We may not agree in every single instance yet your past reputation precedes itself here in terms of giving investors the inside look needed to shape opinions of who we are all actually dealing with in these GBs. Your purpose wasn’t to start anything yet you deserve respect for holding many of these together and frankly offering some hint of credibility where (unfortunately) it is often…we’ll just leave it there (no disrespect whatsoever to the OP who has put lights in thousands of hands for little to no compensation given the work required).

I’m in for (2) more LF351Ds…if only for the above and the fact that McBob is apparently in for (6)…which should intrigue anyone looking for “the perfect light” which (imo) he took a pretty good stab at producing not too long ago:

(Off Topic): “The Perfect Country and Western Song”

FWIW, I generally dont read, much less agree with what TT says…… not so much that I disagree but mainly because the post are so long that I tend to loose track of what he is saying. On this I have to agree…… Neal’s inability to communicate, insure QC and provide customers a troublefree transaction has a lot to be desired. It ‘seems’ like it is always a roll of the dice when he is involved.

Uhm… as I am still pretty new… Who is Neal and how does he contribute to all those projects he is involed in (like in the FW3A)? It seems to me that he is more than just an owner of an online shop, so what does he do? And how is this related to M4D M4X?

Also, I always wondered whether any of the people involved in the actual creation of the flashlight design ever see any money for their efforts. Like the people who design the lights, drivers, program UIs etc. This does not seem the case, if I read that right and it makes me kinda sad. If that’s right, I wish there was at least an option to pay 10-20% extra for the light and that extra money then reaches the private contributors from this forum. Because everyone besides them seem to get their fair share out of it(?)

Neal handles a lot of what needs to be done in China. He used to work in the flashlight department of Banggood, and was involved in making the BLF-A6 and Kronos X5/X6, but later ended up on his own. I don’t recall the timeline exactly, but I think he got canned shortly after the failed Cometa project. Then he started his own flashlight middle-man company and was involved in making the BLF GT. He has also been reselling a variety of other products at his online shop, which I think was created in collaboration with M4D M4X. M4D M4X has been doing tuán gòu (group buy) style deals for a few years, where the vendor gets a bunch of buyers, the buyers get a discount coupon, and M4D M4X gets a percentage for his services.

In this case, I think Neal basically hired Lumintop to produce an item, and is acting as a retailer for that item. Once the product is available to buy, the rest of the process is up to Neal and M4D M4X — sales, shipping, support, returns, etc.

No, the people on the BLF/TLF side of this don’t get any money for it. Just an occasional prototype, and generally a free light or two at the end.

People keep telling me I should set up a Patreon account or something, but I haven’t done it yet. Maybe I should, but most of the time it seems like it’d just be another headache.

Heck, just keep it simple & fairly headache free then. Give us a PayPal address…… money will follow. . :wink:

Seriously, please think about it TK. You give a lot here, many of us would like to give back. :+1:

Thank you very much for the explanation! :slight_smile:

I honestly think you and the others involved in this and similar projects should do that, or a Ko-Fi or at least a PayPal donation thing. Something like that. Not as a payment, but as a token of gratitude from people who really like what you all do.

I’d be up for that, TK’s interfaces have changed my flashlight world!

when i ran the BLF GT and other groupbuys i added the "one for the team" token to buy and that raised money has been shared to the team members aand other contributers.

unfortunately i am not part of the FW3A project since Neal started his own shop - i do not know how its done here.


If Toykeeper PMs me her okay and PayPal adress i would be honored to run a donation / raffle whatever

So she does not only get our deepest respect for her supernatural work, but also some money for more profane things like a nice dinner or a day in the spa to forget all those bits and bytes ;)




Please add me to the list for 1x……many thanks~

Same thing.

I can donate a bit of money to project contributors.

I thought there should have been a ‘permanent’ TK donation thread with a PP addy a long time ago…. she deserves it for her time and knowledge.

How about a permanent Donation thread for anyone that is willing to accept donations??

I can think of many people I would donate a small amount of money to.

There has been many reviews that has saved me money.

I own a D4 because of TK’s review, donation sent.

I own several cells based on HJK’s reviews , donation sent.

I have or haven’t bought lights based on robo819, donation sent.

Oh, No way I am gonna forget SB for giving me a place to hang out, donation sent.

The Miller, very sadly long departed from the forum, did something similar. I think it was donation for future products. I donated a little, and to my knowledge, everything was distributed very fairly. I understand, especially with regard to TK, the hesitancy making a hobby a job, but maybe a few tokens of appreciation would be appreciated. Not many people I know of work for free, but the ones I am aware of all reside on BLF. A lot of us would throw a few dollars, or whatever we could, their way.

A few things about Neal.

  1. He’s a flashlight enthusiast who knows how they work internally.
  2. Speaks both Chinese and English.
  3. Lives within driving distance of Shenzhen China where most of the flashlight manufacturers are located.
  4. He’s a translator between us and the engineers, etc… in the factories.
  5. He has gone to the factories on many ocassasions to supervise aspects of a flashlight build, worked on the packaging and trained people to do quality control checks on the lights.
  6. He knows several ways to reduce shipping costs for both the buyer and seller and a lot of times can avoid the buyer from having to pay additional taxes or import fees.
  7. He helps to arrange and run group buys.
  8. He helps customers track their packages.
  9. He deals with warranty related issues. (Better than the company does, usually)
  10. He wanted a website to promote his items and teamed up with M4D M4X since he already had a website.
  11. Overall a nice guy and trustworthy.

Sometimes the team working on a big flashlight design will negotiate a tiny percentage, like 1%, with the manufacturer to be equally distributed among the team members or to maybe go into a collective pot that can be used for future projects, etc… The same goes for M4X and Neal. They do get a percentage of the sales that they bring in. Nothing to be ashamed about. I know that their good deals have certainly gotten me to buy lights I normally wouldn’t have. Lol. M4X has also contributed a lot to getting warranty issues settled as well as making lots of review videos. You can check them out on youtube here.

Guys like Lexel, Texas_Ace and others can sometimes be hired by companies to design a driver for a particular flashlight. They usually get paid a set fee, not a percentage, for their work.

I don’t think the software guys like Tom E and ToyKeeper make much or any money off their UI’s. I’m sure they could get paid if a company wanted them to customize a UI for a specific light. I assume, but have no real knowledge, that ToyKeeper made some money from Emisar when she made RampingIOS for their lights. It was built/customized to their specific needs.

Take everything I say about money with a grain of salt. I may know some details, but there’s a lot I don’t know. People like to keep money details private. You know how it is. I believe everything I said is public knowledge, though.

Ps, I hope TK gets a little monetary compensation from this project for all her efforts. It will never be enough to match all the actual work she is doing. Most folks put in all the hours on these projects just for the fun of it, to see it through to a final product. For the passion of it.

I’d happily donate to TK, the UI she has made us is nothing short of amazing, yet somehow it keeps getting better

You might find THIS interesting & informative cabfrank……

Yeah, I can understand that too. :+1: . But, as you basically said cabfrank; TK gives a lot to the BLF Community. And you are 100% correct… she does.

And as chadvone mentioned above, there are a few others that do also.

It would be nice if there was a way, for those of us that wanted to show our appreciation; to be able to do so on an individual basis.
Not some organized fund raiser, there is nothing wrong with that of course; but just on a simple individual basis. A way of letting them know in a tangible way we appreciate & recognize what they do on an individual level.

No strings attached, no expectations, no list of contributors…. just an honest “Thank you” in a tangible way on an individual basis.

To my way of thinking this would be an individual PayPal contribution sent directly to the individual(s) of your choice.

Honestly… it could not get much simplier than that. All that is needed is a PayPal address & hopefully a ‘stickied page’ to keep a list of those addresses on.

I hope this can happen. :slight_smile:

Not sure on the money, teacher. I thought there was a raffle, with prizes and money distributed. I could be off base though, seems long ago now.

Yeah, there was supposed to be…. it never happened. Or, if it did; there was never any mention or record of it. Not good anyway you slice it…. :frowning: