Fireflies E07 preview

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klrman
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DB Custom wrote:
My wife and daughter bought me this T shirt a decade ago, I really am wearing the shirt with that slogan printed on the front. lol If I didn't have a 4000 Kelvin setting, or if I couldn't use a photo of a white subject shot with the camera as the custom white balance, I believe I'd leave it in Auto White Balance... the camera can do no worse than a manual setting nearly 2000K in arrears. ;)

 

haha!  My wife thinks I'm mr. know it all when it comes to construction, but I'll admit I'm pretty good in that area.

 

I orderd my E07's glued so I'm not going to know if thermal paste was applied or not.  Would the XPL-Hi 5000k and 6500k turn blue also if there was none on there too?  Trying to get an idea of tell tale signs just in case.

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DB Custom wrote:
So while I had it apart I thoroughly checked into the broken optic leg screw in the wrong hole syndrome. Seems that when the head was drilled and tapped for threads a pattern was used. The board can indeed go into the head with the screws in the correct positions that allow the optic to sit in it’s 4 corresponding holes on the pcb. BUT, the hole for the wires would then be in the wrong position on the pcb. So the template used to drill the holes didn’t have a locator on it to determine exact placement for the pcb. And therein lies the problem… The threaded hole for that out-of-place screw is simply in the wrong place. There is no threaded hole where the screw should be positioned.

Oops! Blushing

I played around with the screw and optic hole locations in Photoshop. If there’s a template then just rotating it doesn’t seem to let one of the screws end up in a leg hole. It actually requires that the template be flipped over and then rotated. Then a screw can end up in either of the leg holes beside the wires.

If there’s no “This side face up” on the pattern and whoever’s responsible for tapping and threading holes is just tossing the template into the light arbitrarily then maybe 50% of lights will get screws in the wrong place. That’s not particularly reassuring.

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Maybe not, there are the 3 screws holding the board tight against the emitter shelf, so as long as the MCPCB fits properly into the head then the screws can snug it down for good contact. Thermal paste would certainly help, but the copper is thick and rather large so maybe it’s not so horribly bad.

There is some sort of very thin almost oily residue on the emitter shelf in mine, and a grey substance around the edges… almost like some thermal compound had been applied but wiped off. The copper board shows quite clearly that nothing contacted it on the vast majority of it’s surface, but some of that grey is around the very edges… don’t know what happened to this particular light but it would appear it was disassembled and reassembled improperly. That would be my guess anyway.

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klrman wrote:

DB Custom wrote:
My wife and daughter bought me this T shirt a decade ago, I really am wearing the shirt with that slogan printed on the front. lol If I didn’t have a 4000 Kelvin setting, or if I couldn’t use a photo of a white subject shot with the camera as the custom white balance, I believe I’d leave it in Auto White Balance… the camera can do no worse than a manual setting nearly 2000K in arrears. Wink

 


haha!  My wife thinks I’m mr. know it all when it comes to construction, but I’ll admit I’m pretty good in that area.


 


I orderd my E07’s glued so I’m not going to know if thermal paste was applied or not.  Would the XPL-Hi 5000k and 6500k turn blue also if there was none on there too?  Trying to get an idea of tell tale signs just in case.


Would the driver maybe be glued in with thermal adhesive?

Just ordered mine btw. I want to do the emitter swap that DB Custom did. It looks awesome. Not green at all. Awesome output. Hope it wont explode or catch fire.

P.S.: Why does it even work? I heard that due to the high forward voltage the LH would not be able to hold output for long. And I don’t even know what the forward voltage exactly is anf how everything plays together. Source1 Source2 (especially confused about this and the Amps each light would draw and the output produced).

DB Custom
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rennet, I’m not saying the template was rotated, I’m saying the template was laid out wrong and not indexed. One of the three holes is not in the correct position.

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Yes I know. I’m just adding that I think it’s because the template gets put in face down.

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Kanton, I’ve used 50 LH351D emitters, haven’t had a problem with the Vf in any of the lights I’ve installed them in. Yes, FIFTY! Well, Fifty-Seven now. Wink

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kanton wrote:
Would the driver maybe be glued in with thermal adhesive? Just ordered mine btw. I want to do the emitter swap that DB Custom did. It looks awesome. Not green at all. Awesome output. Hope it wont explode or catch fire. P.S.: Why does it even work? I heard that due to the high forward voltage the LH would not be able to hold output for long. And I don't even know what the forward voltage exactly is anf how everything plays together. "Source1":http://budgetlightforum.com/node/57784 "Source2":https://www.reddit.com/r/flashlight/comments/8t60sl/comment/e17d3a1 (especially confused about this and the Amps each light would draw and the output produced).

 

I think they just glue the bezel to the head.  I'm not sure if I did the right thing ordering  the glued version so I  could get the warranty. 

SKV89
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Not sure why your 5D is so greenish yellow. The 5D tinted lights I have are all much rosier than the SST-20 4000k.

d_t_a wrote:

SKV89 wrote:
saypat wrote:
That’s pretty much the same as I felt about the SST-20 4000K 95CRI emitters. At the power levels I actually use, it looked weirdly yellow and green and I didn’t like it. Lemongrass is a nicely fitting term there. The higher modes were okay, but I don’t have much use for those.



I received the same light: SST-20 4000K 95CRI. I have looked everywhere and I can’t find the weirdly yellow or green? I was actually looking forward to the green tint. Anyone else?



Do you have any 5D or 219B 9080 lights? If so, compare it side by side with the SST-20 4000k and you will realize how green it is. I thought the tint on my SST-20 4000k looked pretty good on turbo until I compared it.


 


beam comparison (camera white balance setting set to: “daylight” white balance)


Left:Emisar D4 (XPL-Hi V2-5D 4000K)    Right: Fireflies PL47 (SST20 4000K)  both on Turbo mode



beam comparison for Emisar D4 (XPL-Hi V2-5D 4000K) vs Fireflies PL47 (SST20 4000K)


 


beam comparison for Fireflies PL47 (Nichia 219B SW45K R9080) vs Fireflies PL47 (SST20 4000K)


 (The Nichia 219B is turning a bit bluish due to high-current on Turbo mode…)




 


 

SKV89
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OMG so it is true after all that they don’t use thermal paste.

DB Custom wrote:
Note to the assembly team at Fireflies. Thermal paste is very important. My SST-20’s went blue in about 20 seconds on a 30T cell… gee, wonder why…

I DID NOT clean the MCPCB, this shot was taken immediately after pulling said MCPCB from the emitter shelf, yes this is exactly how it was assembled.

Edit: On a more positive note…

The Samsung LH351D 5000K W6 emitters look LOVELY in moonlight mode… Big Smile

contactcr
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kanton wrote:
Would the driver maybe be glued in with thermal adhesive?

Just ordered mine btw. I want to do the emitter swap that DB Custom did. It looks awesome. Not green at all. Awesome output. Hope it wont explode or catch fire.

P.S.: Why does it even work? I heard that due to the high forward voltage the LH would not be able to hold output for long. And I don’t even know what the forward voltage exactly is anf how everything plays together. Source1 Source2 (especially confused about this and the Amps each light would draw and the output produced).

If you are concerned you can use 90CRI LEDs and it would probably do ~7,000lm at a much lower vF

SKV89
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If you want the Vapcell 40T, why don’t you PM Vapcell_Dennis on BLF and he will steer you in the right direction. I have this cell and it measures 4,038mah and output on the E07 is just slightly less than the 30T. Excellent cell.

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DB Custom wrote:
The Samsung LH351D 5000K W6 emitters look LOVELY in moonlight mode… Big Smile

They really do, don’t they? I love how the LH351D emitters look, and they make a great beam in a lot of lights. The output is impressively even and consistent.

I just don’t like the beam under a 10507 optic.

klrman wrote:
The only difference is that you actually know what you’re talking about Thumbs Up

It’s amazing how much difference that makes, no?

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SKV89 wrote:
Not sure why your 5D is so greenish yellow. The 5D tinted lights I have are all much rosier than the SST-20 4000k.

Thanks for mentioning that… so far the D4 with XPL-Hi V2-5D is the only light I have with “5D” tint. I thought it didn’t look nice (greenish-yellow, as you mentioned), so I didn’t try gettting that kind of tint anymore…)

I have an Astrolux S1 with XPL-HD “5A” tint and that light looks rosy…

It’s sort of off-topic here, but maybe someone can send me how a 5D tint is supposed to look like?

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DB Custom wrote:
Note to the assembly team at Fireflies. Thermal paste is very important. My SST-20’s went blue in about 20 seconds on a 30T cell… gee, wonder why…

I DID NOT clean the MCPCB, this shot was taken immediately after pulling said MCPCB from the emitter shelf, yes this is exactly how it was assembled.

Edit: On a more positive note…

The Samsung LH351D 5000K W6 emitters look LOVELY in moonlight mode… Big Smile

Hello Sir

Thanks for sharing the information.

Here is the story.

At first batch of ROT66, we used many paste under MCPCB, but still has some emitter-burnt issue. We inquired the paste suppier about it.

Then we got an answer from their technicians.

1. For thermal conductive rate: Flat surface metal > Paste >unflat surface metal. In reality metal surface are not 100% flat, so we need add thermal paste on the metal surface. They guide us that If the metal surface is flat enough, we should add a thin layer of paste on the metal surface to ensure the best thermal conductive.

2. The bottom of the MCPCB is very flat , The aluminum shelf is not 100% flat, So we added a thin layer of paste on the E07 head. We have done a lot of thermal test , no one led burnt at max turbo.

*For E07 SST20 / Nichia version , we only recommend max 20A battery , 20A battery can reach max power for E07 SST20/Nichia version. With a 30T battery on SST20 or Nichia the turbo will go blue no matter how much paste used.

30T battery is better used for E07 XPL version. *

Thanks
Jack

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And we have done a lot of thermal test on stocked E07 , no emitter-burnt issue happened.

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I wonder how much lumens the E07 would produce with Luxeon V’s in it Evil
Too bad that would most likely require a special board made by @led4power.

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FireFlies wrote:
DB Custom wrote:
Note to the assembly team at Fireflies. Thermal paste is very important. My SST-20’s went blue in about 20 seconds on a 30T cell… gee, wonder why…

I DID NOT clean the MCPCB, this shot was taken immediately after pulling said MCPCB from the emitter shelf, yes this is exactly how it was assembled.

At first batch of ROT66, we used many paste under MCPCB, but still has some emitter-burnt issue. We inquired the paste suppier about it.

Then we got an answer from their technicians.

1. For thermal conductive rate: Flat surface metal > Paste >unflat surface metal. In reality metal surface are not 100% flat, so we need add thermal paste on the metal surface. They guide us that If the metal surface is flat enough, we should add a thin layer of paste on the metal surface to ensure the best thermal conductive.

2. The bottom of the MCPCB is very flat , The aluminum shelf is not 100% flat, So we added a thin layer of paste on the E07 head. We have done a lot of thermal test , no one led burnt at max turbo.

Yes, and DB Custom knows all this. He makes some of the brightest and hottest lights in the world.

However, what he found was not metal to metal contact. It was not metal to paste to metal. It was aluminum to paste to air to copper. This is even worse than having too much paste. There was an air gap between the copper piece and the aluminum, and it is important to make sure that gap is filled with paste instead of air.

It is true that the paste should be as thin as possible… but it should not be so thin that it leaves an air gap.

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@FireFlies, I have a question.

My E07 makes a clicking sound sometimes..

First heard it after deactivating the Aux LEDs
Heard another click when I run turbo for a few seconds, then another one after ramping down

Heard another click while light was off and in standby and lying next to me.

Why is that? Why does it make a sound? Is something broken? I got the light today, like one hour ago.

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ToyKeeper wrote:
FireFlies wrote:
DB Custom wrote:
Note to the assembly team at Fireflies. Thermal paste is very important. My SST-20’s went blue in about 20 seconds on a 30T cell… gee, wonder why…

I DID NOT clean the MCPCB, this shot was taken immediately after pulling said MCPCB from the emitter shelf, yes this is exactly how it was assembled.

At first batch of ROT66, we used many paste under MCPCB, but still has some emitter-burnt issue. We inquired the paste suppier about it.

Then we got an answer from their technicians.

1. For thermal conductive rate: Flat surface metal > Paste >unflat surface metal. In reality metal surface are not 100% flat, so we need add thermal paste on the metal surface. They guide us that If the metal surface is flat enough, we should add a thin layer of paste on the metal surface to ensure the best thermal conductive.

2. The bottom of the MCPCB is very flat , The aluminum shelf is not 100% flat, So we added a thin layer of paste on the E07 head. We have done a lot of thermal test , no one led burnt at max turbo.

Yes, and DB Custom knows all this. He makes some of the brightest and hottest lights in the world.

However, what he found was not metal to metal contact. It was not metal to paste to metal. It was aluminum to paste to air to copper. This is even worse than having too much paste. There was an air gap between the copper piece and the aluminum, and it is important to make sure that gap is filled with paste instead of air.

It is true that the paste should be as thin as possible… but it should not be so thin that it leaves an air gap.


Looks like the shelf isn’t perfectly flat. There is contact on the edges of the MCPCB but not in the middle.
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I seem to have an underperforming light . I bought 2 . One is an XLP 6500k . The other is an SST20 5000k. The XPL will hit 6800 lms at turn on . ( TA meter ) The SST will only reach around 1500 at turn on with fresh charged 40T . I have cleaned all connections , tried different batteries , It drops very quickly 2 seconds after turn on . Down to like 500 lms. I have not checked thermal configuration . After seeing DB’s post of no thermal paste , I am not sure what the safe , maximum temp I can set it at . Also , does this seem like it may be the the cause of this lights problems ? ( thermal config )
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I so want one of these, on the other hand, I so don’t! Maybe in 6 months time….. nearly all the feedback on Fireflies lights seems to be 50/50 on quality/problems etc. Still this can only mean better things to come. Smile

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G0OSE wrote:
I so want one of these, on the other hand, I so don’t! Maybe in 6 months time….. nearly all the feedback on Fireflies lights seems to be 50/50 on quality/problems etc. Still this can only mean better things to come. Smile

I don’t need a flashlight but want one Smile

Personally I’m going to wait* for a review with runtimes/effiency.
*=Unless someone posts a good discount code, then I may change my mind Smile

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Thank you Jack, yes I do understand all that… the thing is though the MCPCB has hard square edges on the bottom of the board and is made to fit very exactly into the head of the light. On the other hand, the light has rounded edges where the walls meet the emitter shelf. This prevents the MCPCB from sitting down onto the emitter shelf and making good firm contact. With such a thin film of thermal paste applied to the emitter shelf, nothing touches the MCPCB. Heat is forced to travel into the mass of the head through the extremely small contact points where the corners meet. Not ideal at all.

The fix is a simple bevel of the MCPCB, so it can sit all the way down onto the Aluminum shelf. OR, a slight reduction in the overall diameter of the MCPCB. OR, a square cut between the shelf and walls of the head. It’s really such a very small bit of contact blocking correct fitment. The copper MCPCB is thick and robust, well done on that, and also why the light still works as is. Wink

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lightboks wrote:
@FireFlies, I have a question.

My E07 makes a clicking sound sometimes..

First heard it after deactivating the Aux LEDs
Heard another click when I run turbo for a few seconds, then another one after ramping down

Heard another click while light was off and in standby and lying next to me.

Why is that? Why does it make a sound? Is something broken? I got the light today, like one hour ago.

My E07 Nichia also has this problem (Worried that the light glass is bursting..), it seems to happen in high brightness,
This one also has the broken off leg on the optic。 Facepalm Crying
.
You can try to turn the top metal pressure ring away. Remove the TRI lens and adjust it to the installation.

.
My E07 SST20 has no broken feet, but the TRI lens has a distinct bubble. Crying Crying Crying

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ToyKeeper wrote:
[
klrman wrote:
The only difference is that you actually know what you're talking about Thumbs Up
It's amazing how much difference that makes, no?

 

Just a minor difference, such as night and day for example!

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jimmy yang wrote:
lightboks wrote:
@FireFlies, I have a question.

My E07 makes a clicking sound sometimes..

First heard it after deactivating the Aux LEDs
Heard another click when I run turbo for a few seconds, then another one after ramping down

Heard another click while light was off and in standby and lying next to me.

Why is that? Why does it make a sound? Is something broken? I got the light today, like one hour ago.

My E07 Nichia also has this problem (Worried that the light glass is bursting..), it seems to happen in high brightness,
This one also has the broken off leg on the optic。 Facepalm Crying
.
You can try to turn the top metal pressure ring away. Remove the TRI lens and adjust it to the installation.

.
My E07 SST20 has no broken feet, but the TRI lens has a distinct bubble. Crying Crying Crying


My XPL HI E07 also makes an occasional clicking sound. This happened a lot more when I first got the light. With time, this seems to have diminished. Maybe the sound is air under the star heating up?

In any event, it does not seem to affect performance in any way. My EO7 performs great.

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What is the suggested battery for an XPL HI 4000K E07?

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wolfstyle wrote:
What is the suggested battery for an XPL HI 4000K E07?

What the end goal, runtime or max output?
Max output: 30T
Max runtime: 50E

Then logic tells us the 40T would be a great compromise between the two extremes..

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wolfstyle
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Cereal_killer wrote:
wolfstyle wrote:
What is the suggested battery for an XPL HI 4000K E07?

What the end goal, runtime or max output?
Max output: 30T
Max runtime: 50E

Then logic tells us the 40T would be a great compromise between the two extremes..

How much output is lost between 30T vs 40T? I do have a 50E but don’t have the light yet.

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