Having tried the SST20 4000K 95 CRI side-by-side with 4000K 5D XPL Hi, I have now concluded that XPL Hi is much superior. The benefits of higher CRI and lower cost from the SST20 are massively outweighed by the XPL Hi’s benefits of better color temp, higher peak output, higher sustained output and longer battery life.
I didn’t compare heat or amps or runtime, but when I compared tint of SST-20 4000K 95CRI to an XP-L HI 5A/5D, I found the XP-L HI made a much nicer-looking beam despite the lower CRI. SST-20 looked fine at high levels, but I don’t use high levels very much.
And it’s also going to last longer on regulated modes because of this too.
I disagree. Vf has nothing to do with battery power consumption on regulated modes. The battery voltage appears across both the current regulator and the diode. If the regulator is working, the current through the regulator is fixed. Battery power is simply battery voltage times regulator current. If the diode Vf is higher, more dissipation in the diode, less in the regulator. If the Vf is lower, less dissipation in the diode, more in the regulator. I would argue the diode can handle the dissipation better then the regulator. If Vf went to zero or very low, one would burn up those little regulator chips pretty quick, as they have no real heat sink.
With an amc7135 chip like the D4 uses, the bottom half of the ramp stays in regulation longer with lower-Vf emitters. Basically, it stays in regulation as long as the battery voltage is higher than the emitter voltage. Then on a low battery, output falls much like it would with a direct-drive circuit. It’s a lot like a buck driver, except it burns off extra voltage instead of converting that to current.
Heat can definitely be a problem when burning off extra voltage like this, but the 7135 chips have their own thermal regulation built in. It typically works well as long as the voltage is within spec. It doesn’t work at 5V and above though, and the chips tend to die when used that way.
And it’s also going to last longer on regulated modes because of this too.
I disagree. Vf has nothing to do with battery power consumption on regulated modes. The battery voltage appears across both the current regulator and the diode. If the regulator is working, the current through the regulator is fixed. Battery power is simply battery voltage times regulator current. If the diode Vf is higher, more dissipation in the diode, less in the regulator. If the Vf is lower, less dissipation in the diode, more in the regulator. I would argue the diode can handle the dissipation better then the regulator. If Vf went to zero or very low, one would burn up those little regulator chips pretty quick, as they have no real heat sink.
With an amc7135 chip like the D4 uses, the bottom half of the ramp stays in regulation longer with lower-Vf emitters. Basically, it stays in regulation as long as the battery voltage is higher than the emitter voltage. Then on a low battery, output falls much like it would with a direct-drive circuit. It’s a lot like a buck driver, except it burns off extra voltage instead of converting that to current.
Heat can definitely be a problem when burning off extra voltage like this, but the 7135 chips have their own thermal regulation built in. It typically works well as long as the voltage is within spec. It doesn’t work at 5V and above though, and the chips tend to die when used that way.
I stand corrected, I understand what Blue was saying now. But to poke at this a bit further, is the Vf at 0.35A really above 3V, and in the D4 now we are talking less than 0.1A per diode. I’m still thinking you are not staying in regulation on a rechargeable li-ion battery in a D4 before the voltage is so low it no longer safe to be operating. Guess it is time to investigate the Vf for an XPL-HI led.
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PocketSammich wrote: I don’t need this, but I want it. Please sign me up.
A photo of my daughter, printed on Kodak Metallic Paper at 24×36. These pics taken moments ago with my i8 locked at 4352K and with 2 lights at approx the same output. Bet it doesn’t take you much of a guess as to which one I’ll be throwing the emitters away…
FWIW, the emitters in both lights are 5000K
These pictures make me want to buy a bunch of bare LH351Ds. I haven’t tried that emitter yet.
I stand corrected, I understand what Blue was saying now. But to poke at this a bit further, is the Vf at 0.35A really above 3V, and in the D4 now we are talking less than 0.1A per diode. I’m still thinking you are not staying in regulation on a rechargeable li-ion battery in a D4 before the voltage is so low it no longer safe to be operating. Guess it is time to investigate the Vf for an XPL-HI led.
I stand corrected, I understand what Blue was saying now. But to poke at this a bit further, is the Vf at 0.35A really above 3V, and in the D4 now we are talking less than 0.1A per diode. I’m still thinking you are not staying in regulation on a rechargeable li-ion battery in a D4 before the voltage is so low it no longer safe to be operating. Guess it is time to investigate the Vf for an XPL-HI led.
Interpolating Texas_Ace’s data to 350mA, that would be 2.84V.
Thanks, looks like roughly 2.74V of diode voltage for more than 0.1A of current (as the 0.35A gets split to 4 LEDs), and supposedly 0.12V across the 7135, so the light will regulate down to 3V easily at the full 0.35A going through 4 diodes. BlueSwordM is correct, but I’m guessing most of us are not planning on using batteries at less than 3V consistently.
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PocketSammich wrote: I don’t need this, but I want it. Please sign me up.
Does it take a week to ship? I ordered a D4 last friday, and 7 days later the status is still “processing”. It is in stock, so is it normal or should I start to worry?
Hm.. Iam near to order this light with xpl leds.. They dropped the price again or is it the old dropped price? The xpl version owners-whats the runtime on turbo? I got the samsungs, so probably cant get more from any othet 18650..
Runtime on turbo depends mostly on the battery you use, and the level you set the thermal limit to. That’s just how direct-drive modes work; the battery’s type and condition are a huge factor. However, in most cases, it’ll still typically be under 30 seconds before the first step-down.
30 seconds to first step-down? Unequivocally? So a week (or so) ago, in the Northeast US, at -35ºF ambient and with a strong wind, the light would still step down in 30 seconds?
Oh, I’m very well familiar with where the limits are… was just saying that there are variables, that’s all. Basically pulling TK’s chain as it were. lol Different ambient temperatures, different humidity levels, different wind levels, a different grip on the light… a lot of things come into play as to just exactly how long Turbo will go before stepping down if it steps down at all. She’s right though, of course, in most cases it steps down pretty quickly…
My D4 Titanium is in short body form, with an Aspire 18350 and Samsung LH351D 80 CRI 5000K emitters. I KNOW it’s going to heat up fast in Turbo, so I don’t use Turbo much at all. I have bigger more powerful lights if I think that level of output is going to be needed. I also have Anduril flashed so I can limit the ramp ceiling to a reasonable level without having to think about it in use. A double click changes everything of course, whole new ball game….
Edit: As an aside, my green D4 is also in short body format, with green output XP-E2 emitters. I had thought that these emitters would not pull enough to heat up strongly but boy was I wrong! Tint shifts very noticeably on the green output and heat comes in hard and fast in Turbo so again, I have Anduril ramp ceiling set relatively low and just seldom double click into Turbo.
My D4 Titanium is in short body form, with an Aspire 18350 and Samsung LH351D 80 CRI 5000K emitters. I KNOW it’s going to heat up fast in Turbo, so I don’t use Turbo much at all. I have bigger more powerful lights if I think that level of output is going to be needed. I also have Anduril flashed so I can limit the ramp ceiling to a reasonable level without having to think about it in use. A double click changes everything of course, whole new ball game….
Edit: As an aside, my green D4 is also in short body format, with green output XP-E2 emitters. I had thought that these emitters would not pull enough to heat up strongly but boy was I wrong! Tint shifts very noticeably on the green output and heat comes in hard and fast in Turbo so again, I have Anduril ramp ceiling set relatively low and just seldom double click into Turbo.
You want lamps that heat up fast? Get the Nicha’s. LOL. I have them and while they are nice they get hot way to fast.
Yeah, there have been many “shower head” lights in the past. I had one that used 21 led’s… wasn’t impressive with XM-L T6’s but with XP-E2 Torch emitters it was pretty cool!
Of more recent vintage, look at the Sofirn SF22… 18 XM-L T6’s. BIG light!
This one has a hollow head though, albeit the aluminum that is there is quite thick. Been thinking about remedying this but have yet to do so. Again though, if you push a lot of LED’s even semi hard then the heat is once again a force to be reckoned with.
It can be vresto, the frosted version acts as a diffuser and merges artifacts and/or dark shadows like a donut hole from a multi-die emitter or whatever, and typically this frosted application costs some lumens in output. I’ve seen a wide frosted CUTE-3 rob 1100 lumens from a triple X6 I built for a bicyclist.
Plus One and Wow.
I didn’t compare heat or amps or runtime, but when I compared tint of SST-20 4000K 95CRI to an XP-L HI 5A/5D, I found the XP-L HI made a much nicer-looking beam despite the lower CRI. SST-20 looked fine at high levels, but I don’t use high levels very much.
With an amc7135 chip like the D4 uses, the bottom half of the ramp stays in regulation longer with lower-Vf emitters. Basically, it stays in regulation as long as the battery voltage is higher than the emitter voltage. Then on a low battery, output falls much like it would with a direct-drive circuit. It’s a lot like a buck driver, except it burns off extra voltage instead of converting that to current.
Heat can definitely be a problem when burning off extra voltage like this, but the 7135 chips have their own thermal regulation built in. It typically works well as long as the voltage is within spec. It doesn’t work at 5V and above though, and the chips tend to die when used that way.
I recognize that’s probably just auto-correct talking, but I kinda like it.
they dont sell the frosted optic anymore? on intloutdoor..
EDC-Amutorch X9 XHP50 nw,Sofirn If-25A cw
Headlamp-Thrunite TH30 nw
I purchased one a while ago, but it’s not available on intl-outdoor as option anymore.
My current:
Fenix HM65R, Nitecore TIP CRI, Nitecore NU35, Skilhunt H03, Skilhunt H03 RC, Emisar D4V2 (SST20), Emisar D4V2 (XP-L HI V3 3A), Emisar D1 (XP-L HI V2 3A), Emisar D4S (XP-L HI V2 3A), Lumintop GT MINI, Lumintop B01, Jetbeam Mini ONE
I stand corrected, I understand what Blue was saying now. But to poke at this a bit further, is the Vf at 0.35A really above 3V, and in the D4 now we are talking less than 0.1A per diode. I’m still thinking you are not staying in regulation on a rechargeable li-ion battery in a D4 before the voltage is so low it no longer safe to be operating. Guess it is time to investigate the Vf for an XPL-HI led.
PocketSammich wrote: I don’t need this, but I want it. Please sign me up.
The discussion is considering small differences, but here’s some data that addresses your next question:
http://budgetlightforum.com/node/52227
Interpolating Texas_Ace’s data to 350mA, that would be 2.84V.
Thanks, looks like roughly 2.74V of diode voltage for more than 0.1A of current (as the 0.35A gets split to 4 LEDs), and supposedly 0.12V across the 7135, so the light will regulate down to 3V easily at the full 0.35A going through 4 diodes. BlueSwordM is correct, but I’m guessing most of us are not planning on using batteries at less than 3V consistently.
PocketSammich wrote: I don’t need this, but I want it. Please sign me up.
Does it take a week to ship? I ordered a D4 last friday, and 7 days later the status is still “processing”. It is in stock, so is it normal or should I start to worry?
Alfas they are on holidays.. Wait three days
EDC-Amutorch X9 XHP50 nw,Sofirn If-25A cw
Headlamp-Thrunite TH30 nw
Hm.. Iam near to order this light with xpl leds.. They dropped the price again or is it the old dropped price? The xpl version owners-whats the runtime on turbo? I got the samsungs, so probably cant get more from any othet 18650..
EDC-Amutorch X9 XHP50 nw,Sofirn If-25A cw
Headlamp-Thrunite TH30 nw
Runtime on turbo depends mostly on the battery you use, and the level you set the thermal limit to. That’s just how direct-drive modes work; the battery’s type and condition are a huge factor. However, in most cases, it’ll still typically be under 30 seconds before the first step-down.
30 seconds to first step-down? Unequivocally? So a week (or so) ago, in the Northeast US, at -35ºF ambient and with a strong wind, the light would still step down in 30 seconds?
Devil’s advocate…
I hope I did not misunderstand your post
there is no 30s hard limit. I used my D4 in the snow some days ago, no stepdown at all because I dipped it in the snow every now and then
its purely dependent on temps.
Oh, I’m very well familiar with where the limits are… was just saying that there are variables, that’s all.
Basically pulling TK’s chain as it were. lol Different ambient temperatures, different humidity levels, different wind levels, a different grip on the light… a lot of things come into play as to just exactly how long Turbo will go before stepping down if it steps down at all. She’s right though, of course, in most cases it steps down pretty quickly…
she said under 30s though
Which probably and comfortably covers 90%+
My D4 Titanium is in short body form, with an Aspire 18350 and Samsung LH351D 80 CRI 5000K emitters. I KNOW it’s going to heat up fast in Turbo, so I don’t use Turbo much at all. I have bigger more powerful lights if I think that level of output is going to be needed.
I also have Anduril flashed so I can limit the ramp ceiling to a reasonable level without having to think about it in use. A double click changes everything of course, whole new ball game….
Edit: As an aside, my green D4 is also in short body format, with green output XP-E2 emitters. I had thought that these emitters would not pull enough to heat up strongly but boy was I wrong! Tint shifts very noticeably on the green output and heat comes in hard and fast in Turbo so again, I have Anduril ramp ceiling set relatively low and just seldom double click into Turbo.
I have one of my D4 with 219b and Anduril, and as you say, without the ceiling these run into thermal problems way too fast. So no IMR for this one
oh oh…buy or not to buy:))
EDC-Amutorch X9 XHP50 nw,Sofirn If-25A cw
Headlamp-Thrunite TH30 nw
This picture kills me. It reminds me of mama, papa and little one…and one of the adults needs to get on a serious diet plan.
Curious…I like the flood of all those emitters right up to the glass but I’m curious, has anyone done the same thing with a much bigger light?
Moses came from the mountaintop carrying a tablet. The Words were....WITH GREAT LUMENS COMES GREAT REPONSIBILITY.
You want lamps that heat up fast? Get the Nicha’s. LOL. I have them and while they are nice they get hot way to fast.
The Astrolux MF01 has 18 emitters with similar optics.
Yeah, there have been many “shower head” lights in the past. I had one that used 21 led’s… wasn’t impressive with XM-L T6’s but with XP-E2 Torch emitters it was pretty cool!
Of more recent vintage, look at the Sofirn SF22… 18 XM-L T6’s. BIG light!
This one has a hollow head though, albeit the aluminum that is there is quite thick. Been thinking about remedying this but have yet to do so. Again though, if you push a lot of LED’s even semi hard then the heat is once again a force to be reckoned with.
Edit: My Bad! The SF-22 came with XM-L2 emitters…
is it a big difference frosted and clean optic?
EDC-Amutorch X9 XHP50 nw,Sofirn If-25A cw
Headlamp-Thrunite TH30 nw
It can be vresto, the frosted version acts as a diffuser and merges artifacts and/or dark shadows like a donut hole from a multi-die emitter or whatever, and typically this frosted application costs some lumens in output. I’ve seen a wide frosted CUTE-3 rob 1100 lumens from a triple X6 I built for a bicyclist.
So when are these going to be available with Aux leds like the D4S? They would sell a boatload.
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