TK's Emisar D18 review -- 3x18650 photon grenade

No clue, sorry. I haven’t seen a Convoy L6.

Since the L6 uses a traditional reflector though, and a fairly large one, I’m going to guess that its beam is probably similar to the D4S or D1.

I’ll just look up some data…

Okay, it looks like the L6 gets about 18 cd/lm.

The D4S gets about 6 to 14 cd/lm (depending on emitter type), and the D1 gets about 33 cd/lm. So the L6 at 18 cd/lm should be halfway between the two.

The reach of the hotspot isn’t necessarily flat, it does still have some taper to it. Here is Maukka’s actual measurement of the YLP Gryphon 180’s beam profile (beam pattern very akin to the likes of M43, ROT66, MF01). Note that it is using XPG2 emitters in this particular case, so it is a bit throwier/the taper of the hotspot is a little more dramatic, than something with say, XPLs or 219B/Cs.

Here is Maukka’s measured graph of the ROT66’s beam pattern with 219B emitters. Similar or same style of optics, but less throwy LEDs. I expect that the ROT66 with SST20s is a little more like the XPG2 graph above.

It’s interesting that Q8 tube seems merely 7% thicker. Considering tube width alone, 16% larger volume and 33% more cells. This suggests that the tube of D18 is very thick, especially since the Q8 one is not particularly thin already.

If you look at volume I agree.

I think no one will buy M43 or D18 to use it during months in moon light or years in standby)

correct, I agree with first but not with second
But I buy this type of light for many lumens. So I interesting in stabilisation at hi level. Graph for 4A(max using 30А 18650) and 8A(turbo using 18650GA) modes with cooling.

This means that I not need to use fully charged 18650 after each 20s of work to get rated lm.

not correct. M43 can work using 18650GA at full output.

I even say in different output range.

But no one want to use abacus instead computer. or mail instead email, isnt it?). The more complicated devise the better, but the more easy operation the better.

  • … is throwier. You can change(or ask Hank) leds and optics in both D18 and M43
  • … has a wider output range, going both much lower and much higher. Much lower - yes, much higher - 9klm vs 14klm it is not much.)
  • … is less likely to activate by accident. Is electronic lock and unscrewing not enough?
  • … is easier to use. subjectively
  • … has a bunch of extra modes and firmware functions. Most of them are funny but not usefull. but yes Anduril is great UI

I already told you about you M43. Contacts should be cleaned.
“Measurements”: http://forum.fonarevka.ru/attachment.php?attachmentid=155792&d=1450446799 of M43 xpg2 S3 via 50k$ integrating sphere 7620lm at 30s.

just no one tried here)

He was asked by YLP (or yarkiy luch) so soon it will be in series flashlight.

TK, my M43 takes 18 micro amps in standby mode. So, according to your measurements, it is quite the opposite, M43 will last longer on standby.
My copy of M43 with XP-G2 (7291 Lumen):

All four M43 lights of mine have a parasitic drain value of ~20 μA.

Thanks ToyKeeper for sharing your expertise with all of us you do great work.

I was gonna buy one until I started reading this thread. Now I think I’ll buy one in every flavor. Most informative thread on a Flashlight and it was all done in less than 100 posts. Thanks guys, especially you TK. your info was articulate explicit as well as entertaining

Perhaps I just got a bad M43. It doesn’t perform how other people say theirs perform. This is how mine behaved in a water-cooled runtime test at full power. The brightest it got was about 5000 lm.

I measured standby current on mine too. At boot time, without pressing anything, standby drain was about 96 uA. But if I press the button to turn the light on and off, the button changes from red to green, and then it uses about 67 uA.

On a D18, standby current measured at 30 uA. It could be lower by not enabling BOD, but then it would be hard to get out of momentary mode. It needs at least some parasitic drain to make it possible to reboot the MCU by loosening the battery tube.

For a FET driver, it’s normal advice to clean the contacts, bypass the springs, make sure the batteries are full, use new high-amp cells, etc. So I do. But it seems like strange advice for a boost driver. Isn’t a boost driver designed to deliver consistent output even without these things? It is meant to perform the same even if the cells aren’t quite full or even if the contacts aren’t completely clean.

That’s why I use a ZebraLight as a calibration reference light — it emits the same amount of light regardless of what battery it has or how recently I cleaned it. But I don’t use a Meteor for this purpose, because its output is highly variable and chaotic. I never know how much light it’s going to make.

:person_facepalming:

I think you’re conflating concepts in order to make a point which isn’t strong enough to make otherwise. If complicated was truly better, we would be living in a steampunk world full of Rube-Goldberg machines.

I recognize that it is common to think of “simple” as primitive, basic, dumb, or unable to do much… and to think of “complicated” as powerful, advanced, and capable. But that doesn’t accurately represent how things work out in practice. Simple things are often more useful, while more complicated designs generally have more problems.

A lot of tech follows the same pattern as it becomes more mature:

  • Phase 1: primitive (simple + basic)
  • Phase 2: developing (complicated + basic)
  • Phase 3: fancy (complicated + advanced)
  • Phase 4: mature (simple + advanced)

It can be tempting to view phase 3 as the end of this process. That’s where things look the most impressive, with all sorts of fiddly bits to make it look sophisticated. It’s the steampunk aesthetic. And I like steampunk… I decorated my living room that way. It’s fun.

But although phase 3 is powerful, it often solves the wrong problems. Complicated things may be easy to do, but people don’t actually need to do those things very often. The things people need are often inconvenient in a phase-3 product. For example, ever hand someone a ZebraLight and then they ask “how do I make it a little bit brighter?” It’s weirdly complicated to do that simple task on a ZebraLight. It can take like 20 clicks to go up one level.

I agree lets put Anduril on a boost driver. Wait was this not supposed to be the conclusion? I disagree, lets put Anduril on a boost driver.

And when you have memory issues complicated by 20 years of physical complications simple is the only way to go. Complicated is frustrating and either doesn’t get used, gets replaced, or goes in the trash.

I have nothing against Narsil, everyone usually loves it. For me, I can’t remember it’s nature. Hence, I don’t use it. Anduril has nice zones, and even I can remember how to access them all. So I use Anduril for that simple reason. It works, I can remember it, and the light that’s equipped with it is impressive as all get out. My 11 yr old has a D1S with Anduril and loves it. Sometimes he forgets how to operate lockout, or that he has to unlock it, but he navigates it well.

I don’t typically use Guppydrv for similar reasons. Richards new Boost driver offers the ability to lock the configuration menu so once the preferred UI is set up, lock it and forget it. :slight_smile: And Neven’s LD-4A is also difficult for me to remember, I have to find and study the manual to make a change. It offers a password lockout to keep from messing things up. (I don’t use that, would forget the password)

I mod a lot of lights. A LOT of lights, sometimes 2 or 3 a day (occasionally even 4 or 5!). I want a cheap functional driver I can build and rely on without it giving my lack of memory cause for frustration. I have the components to build the FET+1 drivers and have done so for years now, at around $5 a driver. I could never have afforded to buy complicated buck or boost drivers for the 600 plus lights I’ve built! Nor could I have remembered how they all worked afterwards. lol Simple is a blessing for me, that’s really all there is to it. :wink:

You should read the manual.
Driver estimate internal resistance of circuit. If valtage drop more than 0.5V at start than driver restrict power. (With good contact it means about <50mOm per 18650)
You could turn on warning about this.12 fast click and hold. Light will blink 2 times in case of restriction.

And one more thing about stabilization can be found at manual. After voltage drop to 3V driver again began to restrict current to hold valtage 3V.

Btw could you make water cooled test for D18 please?

All that 7135 and fet drivers are some kind of steampunk) primitive dump way to control current that not need many skills. Buck /boost are elegant way but required knowledge.

All those tricks for FET drivers holds true for boost drivers. It’s essential to keep the voltage as high as possible when under load.

First of all, thank you for your great reviews and information ToyKeeper. I highly appreciate all of your input of time and effort into everything you do for this community. (That goes for all reviewers.)

I have a question about the above statement you made. Due to the different optics and other variables that go into the equation, would a D18 with (XP-L HI 5000K) emitters in it, out throw a D18 (SST-20 5000K) model? I am looking for the best throw and tint if possible.

The only other soda can sized light I have is the Olight X7 which the box claims it is 24,500 Candela with 313 meters of throw 9,000 lumens.

How would the Olight X7 and the D18 compare using the (SST-20 5000K) emitters and the D18 with (XP-L HI 5000K) emitters? I know I am asking very basic questions, but my expertise does not lie in mathematical conversions when it comes to flashlight math.

The SST-20 5000k will out throw the XP-L HI model by quite a bit.

The manual says nothing about that. At least, not the manual linked from Noctigon’s M43 page. Perhaps the translator forgot to mention it?

https://intl-outdoor.com/noctigon-418650-meteor-m43-p-864.html

In any case, manuals are great… but test results are better. The manual says it has constant current output… but test results show it does not actually achieve steady output. It’s very sensitive to changes in voltage, even on low modes which should be easy for the driver to handle.

That sounds like a good idea in theory, but it doesn’t seem to actually work. Again, maybe I just got a bad Meteor. But I have the LG high-amp cells recommended on the Meteor’s product page. They’re freshly charged. The light has freshly cleaned contacts. I put them into the M43 and hold the button for maximum turbo. I get about 4800 lm.

Then I take those cells out of the Meteor and place three of them into a D18. I get over 10,000 lumens. 200% as much light from 75% as many cells.

FET drivers are sensitive to many things like cell type, charge state, and contact resistance. But as far as I can tell, the M43 is also sensitive to those things… perhaps even more so. Its highest-power mode is so fickle that I don’t think I’ve ever gotten it to run within 2000 lumens of its spec. It appears to be running in low-power mode even with the exact cells it is designed for.

Maybe I just got a bad Meteor.

If I were more motivated, I’d do like a couple other people have done and replace the driver. It’s a really cute and well-designed host which is enjoyable to use. Hank really did a good job with it. But I haven’t modded it, so it’s still completely stock.

Yes, this is standard low-voltage protection. Almost all lights have this now.

No, there is no point. With a FET, that tests the batteries… not the driver.

If you want to see the shape of the water-cooled turbo discharge curve, look up your cells on HKJ’s battery comparison site. It’s the same curve, and HKJ has all the data meticulously documented.

Thank you for registering your opinion. If there is an error in the data, feel free to make corrections below:


How do you feel about linear drivers in flashlights?

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Strong dislike

AEDe

I agree. I’m not sure AEDe agrees though:

He also posted that the D18 is not an upgrade from the M43 because the D18 requires high-drain cells. This would imply that the M43 does not require them. And he included graphs, to make the point that the voltage need not be as high as possible and the cells need not be as high-amp as possible. But then he talked about the importance of keeping the contacts clean, which seems to imply the opposite.

So… mixed messages. It’s a little confusing.

Continuing the discussion about it doesn’t seem to be getting us anywhere, but it does at least keep this thread on the front page and help promote Emisar’s new light. Discussing the M43 here also helps teach the search engines that people looking for “M43” might be interested in “D18” instead. :+1:

So it will out throw the Olight X7 I am guessing ?

Olight X7 specs, according to maukka’s review: 36.5 kcd / 8940 lm = 4.1 cd/lm

D18 5000K specs, from Intl-Outdoor: 65 kcd / 14000 lm = 4.6 cd/lm

The D18 lux (cd, kcd) is higher, so it should throw farther. Additionally, the D18’s beam shape (cd/lm) is slightly more throwy, so it should be slightly more practical for seeing into the distance.

Neither light is particularly throwy. If you want to see farther, try an Emisar D1S. It gets 130 kcd / 1300 lm, or about 100 cd/lm. It also weighs much less than either of these larger lights, runs longer at turbo, and costs less. It’s much more practical if throw is what you’re looking for.

So what if the M43 can make its max performance on lesser batteries…it’s max performance pales in comparison to the D18’s max performance. :smiley:

A maglite can make its max performance on crappy D cells, so anything that requires 18650 cells to achieve maximum performance isn’t an upgrade! :stuck_out_tongue: