I live in San Francisco and gas prices are almost $4/gallon. I envy the other parts of the US 
Electric cars day will come, but not until they have batteries that last a couple of hundred thousand miles.
I think I already posted the resale value of electric cars. Around here, a smart car loses 2/3 to a 3/4 of it’s value in three years. So unless you charge them for free, the resale value will absolutely murder any “savings” in electricity. That is if you have ANY saving from there.
Electricity up here is 28 cent a KW. That is the all in price, just like a gallon of gas is all in as far as purchasing. That makes electric cars almost as expensive to run as gas FOR THE SAME SIZE VEHICLE. Then you get walloped on the resale.
That be said, I am buying a Smart car, not because I need a 4th car, but because it’s a nice suburban putter and the purchase price makes it a throw-away car. Unlike my other cars, I wont park it so far away that I need a taxi to get to the the front of a mall door……lol
As for the price of gas, I care but not as much as I care for my overall insurance hit. Insurance is 3 times my yearly cost of gas.
Price of gasoline in my area had been rising for a few weeks but just this week started falling again. Price I noticed on my way to work was $2.479/gallon and that isn’t the cheapest gas station around. It’s just one I happen to pass on my way to work.
I payed $4/gallon for 91 a few days ago.
As one of the many on this forum, we live on the edge of civilization. We travel a lot and Electric cars are just not viable year round. To those living in the cities and can take public transportation, cool. I just think that I am happy where I am, gas prices go up and down. It is just a thing. I am glad my country gets less than 5% of its oil from the middle east. I love the time it gets dark for 20 hours a day or when it stays bright and sunny for the same. It is the price I am ok paying to live where I do.
Fresh air, few people, and off of anti social media. Life is getting better every day. 
Yeah. I don’t like to waste energy thinking about things that are outside of my control. Maybe if gas cost like $30 a gallon or something I’d drive less but at this point the fluctuation doesn’t really impact me.
Well, IMO, hybrids are the way to go, unlike me who wants to come in to cars fully electric.
@Spartan, well, electric cars are still much cheaper per mile, since electric cars are much more efficient than gasoline cars. Even at 0,28$CA/kWh, that is still 3,25x cheaper compared to gasoline when you take into account efficiency.
Also, most vehicles that are cooled well, designed well and not super fast charged too quickly, like the Teslas and Chevy Bolts, have very small battery degradation.
They have no problem getting 200 000km with 92% capacity remaining.
@strayz, that’s personally the reason I hate gas prices. They are so volatile.
As I’ve mentioned before, this is why hybrids are your best bet.
@ScallyWag, excellent job!
Anyway, the reason I’m trying to be environmentally friendly as possible is that I want for myself, and my future kids, to have a bright, clean, nature filled and lively world.
I try to do anything in my power to do so, which includes going to conferences to voice out my knowledge, take part in regional offices, etc.
At 5km per kw*, where exactly is this “account for efficiency”?
I drive a diesel and get 18-20km per liter. At $1.20 a liter, that’s about the exact same price as your electric.
That is for a full size E-Benz. A REAL car, not some piece of garbage. Full hard-on luxury with absolutely no compromising or worries. And good for a million kilometers,…that’s multiples of electric car lifetimes.
No problem for 200k? Nope. There is no such thing as 200,000 km at 92%.
REAL numbers from manufacturers.
REAL kw/mileage for electric cars under favorable conditions. Let me know how this does in Canadian winters….lol
Out here on the left coast I paid $4.39 last night 
it’s cutting into my flashlight budget 
Taxes….taxes….and more taxes.
The wet dream of enviros is to make driving a sin. Ergo, sin-tax. Then unlimited taxation is “justifiable”……and achieves THEIR goals.
NOT
GOING
TO
HAPPEN
@Spartan, even at 0,28$/Kwh, that’s still 0,36$CA cheaper on average.
And these are only warranty bases. There have been a lot of cases where Tesla Model Ss have gone above and beyond the warranty with well over 70% capacity.
There are plenty of videos online of Tesla Model Ss still having 90-96% capacity left.
I know what you mean though.
We have to embrace change however.
For our future, and the future of other generations.
Why do you think we went from incandescent lights to LED lights?
While they still excel in terms of CRI at 2700-3100k, they aren’t widely used anymore and have been superseded by LEDs.
Also, don’t cheat with diesel.
While diesel vehicles are more economical than gasoline cars, diesel is much worse in terms of pollution. Much worse.
The best bet for now would be hybrids with large battery packs(10+kWh) and propane powered cars.
That last one would be intersting, as its efficiency is higher than a gas powered car, uses a cheaper fuel, is easier to transport over long distances(pipelines/boats), and is more environmentally friendly compared to gasoline.
And taxes aren’t bad… if companies were actually paying their fair share taxes to get rid of the debt and can provide great services all around.
I’m all for taxing the heck out of driving if it means there’ll be less people on the road. Less traffic for those of us who are willing to pay.
Anyway, the gas tax in CA only accounts for half of the premium we pay out here (it’s less than 50c a gallon). Not sure why it’s so much more expensive.
Oh no… :person_facepalming:
Not sure why this is what people think. There is plenty of real world data from real owners that support the fact that the vast majority of Tesla vehicles lose <10% of range over 100,000 miles.
Please check: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/t024bMoRiDPIDialGnuKPsg
Until Electric cars come down in price about 200% . A lot More charging stations and longer life battery.
They NOT viable outside the city’s in places like USA and Australia,
We have to long a distance to travel,
Even just to get into town some of the stations are over a thousand km to nearest city.
They HAVE to Fly everywhere.
Most of us just run Diesel Utes and 4wd. as we carry family. Tow boats and caravans (trailers) with lots of Horse floats along for the ride too.
We’ve had gas supplemented diesels for decades here.
VERY efficient, with great improvement in power,economy.
The only real vaibility of transport in large areas
Truck and car. electric rail even more costly to run.
“GREEN” anything is just a dreamers wishful thinking in todays clime.
For bulk. reliable 24\7 power supply. there IS Coal. Gas. and Nuclear.
I’ve worked on all three over the 60+ yrs I’ve been in workforce.
Personally. Nuclear. CONTROLLED.
Is the most efficient. cost effective, reliable, and constant.
With least disruption of the planets surface. Which is fine.
And instead of spending the multi billions we do on warfare.
Spend it on a practical. Nuclear powered shuttle service to transport all the spent rods out into the outer space around us.
There is a little bit of it out there. We’d never fill it.
just chuck the lethal (to us) crap out there a bit
A few of the stupid greenies and do gooders with it too. Hopefully.
Bloody dead heads…
She only has to get annoyed once too often by us,
She’ll shrug ONE of her surface plates.
Melt\burn everything off all the surfaces. and start again in a few million yrs when the outer core cools a little to form a new mantle.
Without all the crap she’s carrying round at present (humans)
This place would be a lot better off without us destroying it more daily.
Fuel and transport is NOT going to change.
In this country the government takes OVER half the cost per ltr in taxes.
They never going to drop that,
they’d have to figure something else to tax to drain that money from us.
Get rid of ALL the present politicians and even more so.
The useless dead heads that were there b4 them. ALl just draining the country’s tax coffers.
Sack ’em all. put ’em on the unemployment with none of their perks.
and spend the billions releases on the country.
That’d be a much more useful thing to do with our reorganisation of
basic costing in any country.
Not interested in charts by Tesla fan boys over a few hundred cars.
Li-ion degrade. Period. How much they degrade is based on how far one has to travel, which means how deeply one discharges the pack. The deeper the discharge, the faster the decline of the pack capacity.
Fan boys aside, ALL the manufacturers, every single one knows this and that is why they have predefined expectations on the battery pack capacity.
Well, lithium-ion degrade extremely slowly when properly taken care of, which means:
Temperature control between 25-35C. Done with the Teslas.
Charge and discharge from 20-80% capacity most of the time. Done.
Use a very smart charging algorithm that actively cools the cell at full throttle to get ultra fast charging.
Individual pack liquid cooling using glycol and a small mix of graphite. Done.
Top of the line electronics and BMS. Done
Using cells that can easily get rid of the heat, and have very good cycle life and low internal resistance on their own. Done.
Any electricity production is more efficient and more environmentally friendly compared to petroleum based power sources for vehicles. Done.
Wait, did a post get removed?
I have a feeling someone did…
The thing is though, as electric car battery packs get better, so do our flashlights cells.
Bluesword.
BUT…………………………
You forget.
Electricity in large. RELIABLE volume.
Can only be produced by burning fossil in either Fuel Gas or Nuclear.
just a vicious circle. Going round and round.
Solar and wind. Nor sea surface movement round land areas.
Can NEVER…… produce enough electricity to maintain any
human livable area with it’s consumptions required.
NOR without a real breakthrough (dreamers) will ever change.