Fireflies E07 preview

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Tally-ho
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Ekstasis wrote:
Biggest drawback is you cant bring spare battery with you for longer trips, also the fact that a battery have limited amount of charging cycles is a problem in long term use, battery will perform less and less good with time

For me those are the main drawbacks and an absolute no go for built-in.
Ekstasis wrote:
One solution would be that for instance a company would have a certain body/tube design with internal battery, which will fit more then one model, and also you can buy spare one, its like a “power bank”, so if you buy a flashlight you might only need the head, if you already have a compatible tube with internal battery. … I think the sooner the flashlight industry realize that internal batteries is the future the better, it would give a lot more juice.

You are seeing this with a end-user point of view. Why would a manufacturer do this ?
Did you ever compare prices for proprietary replaceable rectangular battery for GoPro, Panasonic compact camera, etc ? They are way overpriced.
They are not built-in yet but you have to recharge it with the device’s built-in charger. You can buy an optionnal external charger but generally it is also overpriced.
All manufacturers know that it is better to have a proprietary format because people will have to buy it from them. Exclusivity = higher prices.
They also know that changing format regularly (but not to often) will force people to renew their stuff.

I’m using flashlights that are 10 years old.
I would hate to have to consider sending back a flashlight to china or usa for a built-in battery replacement and to hear that they no longer manufacturing this particular format.
They are running businesses and the general business plan have changed, durability is dead since long. They won’t make choices favorable to the end-user. Modularity isn’t in their plan. Proprietary is, and also forcing people to renew their stuff by a way or another.

If you want to be tightened to a manufacturer wills, built-in is the future, the jam on their bread and butter.

Sorry if I sound :

teacher
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Nothing to be sorry for Tally-ho, I agree.

If flashlights ever only have proprietary batteries with USB Charging… I personally will be done with buying new flashlights. Wink

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trailhunter
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Pavlo wrote:
Interesting design. A touch too busy for my tastes (knurling + tailcap + vents + stainless steel). Could be a little more refined (less is more).
I have a DQG 26650 and love the 7 x LED setup.

Great LED options.
No real interest in Fet+1 Linear drivers. I would prefer an efficient fully regulated buck/boost driver and sacrifice total output that only lasts less than 1 minute.

…so which one did you end up getting?

Ekstasis
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Tally-ho wrote:
Ekstasis wrote:
Biggest drawback is you cant bring spare battery with you for longer trips, also the fact that a battery have limited amount of charging cycles is a problem in long term use, battery will perform less and less good with time

For me those are the main drawbacks and an absolute no go for built-in.
Ekstasis wrote:
One solution would be that for instance a company would have a certain body/tube design with internal battery, which will fit more then one model, and also you can buy spare one, its like a “power bank”, so if you buy a flashlight you might only need the head, if you already have a compatible tube with internal battery. … I think the sooner the flashlight industry realize that internal batteries is the future the better, it would give a lot more juice.

You are seeing this with a end-user point of view. Why would a manufacturer do this ?
Did you ever compare prices for proprietary replaceable rectangular battery for GoPro, Panasonic compact camera, etc ? They are way overpriced.
They are not built-in yet but you have to recharge it with the device’s built-in charger. You can buy an optionnal external charger but generally it is also overpriced.
All manufacturers know that it is better to have a proprietary format because people will have to buy it from them. Exclusivity = higher prices.
They also know that changing format regularly (but not to often) will force people to renew their stuff.

I’m using flashlights that are 10 years old.
I would hate to have to consider sending back a flashlight to china or usa for a built-in battery replacement and to hear that they no longer manufacturing this particular format.
They are running businesses and the general business plan have changed, durability is dead since long. They won’t make choices favorable to the end-user. Modularity isn’t in their plan. Proprietary is, and also forcing people to renew their stuff by a way or another.

If you want to be tightened to a manufacturer wills, built-in is the future, the jam on their bread and butter.

Sorry if I sound :
!https://media.giphy.com/media/ZIrutvqFXFqSY/giphy.gif!

Well I would of course prefer a open standard so it works cross-brands so I can use nitecore battery module together with a astrolux flashlight for instance.
Even if it goes proprietary you might save money anyway since you only need to buy a new “head” when you upgrade flashlight.

Ekstasis
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teacher wrote:
Nothing to be sorry for Tally-ho, I agree.

If flashlights ever only have proprietary batteries with USB Charging… I personally will be done with buying new flashlights. Wink

Well I guess we will have to wait and see.. of this will become a thing yet, so far nitecore TM10K is the only flashlight with non replaceable battery that I know of .But I read now it has a normal 21700 cell. anyway They claim they get more power out of it of having it irreplaceable.

BlueSwordM
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@Ekstasis, what Nitecore is saying is absolute crap.

Not only is the Samsung 48G 21700 a 10A cell in a 30A light, meaning they cut costs, but the 30mOhm contact thing is quite crap.

There have been sub 10mOhm springs for a while now. They just wanted to justify putting a non replaceable incapable cell inside of a flashlight for cost-cutting and profit making.

My very own high current Beryllium Copper springs Gen 3:
http://budgetlightforum.com/node/67401
Liitokala Aliexpress Stores Battery Fraud: http://budgetlightforum.com/node/60547

SKV89
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BlueSwordM wrote:
@Ekstasis, what Nitecore is saying is absolute crap.

Not only is the Samsung 48G 21700 a 10A cell in a 30A light, meaning they cut costs, but the 30mOhm contact thing is quite crap.

There have been sub 10mOhm springs for a while now. They just wanted to justify putting a non replaceable incapable cell inside of a flashlight for cost-cutting and profit making.

The 40T wasn’t out yet when they made they made the TM10T. This is the problem with irreplaceable cells. The P42A cell that was recently released would have been perfect for this light.

Tally-ho
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Ekstasis wrote:
Well I guess we will have to wait and see.. of this will become a thing yet, so far nitecore TM10K is the only flashlight with non replaceable battery that I know of .But I read now it has a normal 21700 cell. anyway They claim they get more power out of it of having it irreplaceable.

People are not dumb and don’t mind built-in battery for devices below 40$ but when they are seeking durability for devices that are above 100$, generally people are thinking twice before buying it. For someone who is following the e-cigarettes trend, it’s all the more obvious. Things/trends are moving faster than on the flashlight market. There is a bunch of small and med size devices with built-in battery but most generally with a much lower price than bigger, more powerfull devices with built-in batteries, which are rarer.
Removable 18650/21700 battery’s devices are plethoric.

Nitecore could have weld (tab) this new battery in a sealed flashlight. Why didn’t they ? Probably because of complains from enthousiasts about the previous version or because they know that a built-in battery for devices with a significant price is still “shooting a bullet in the foot” when competitors don’t generalize it also.

EDIT : Sorry, I pictured it differently in my mind and thought you were saying that the new one will work with a removable battery.

aginthelaw
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i thought gold doesn’t oxidize. why not use it?

never fear shadows…it means a light shines nearby

BlueSwordM
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That’s not the problem.

Trying to push 30A through springs is a very, very difficult task.

Honestly, I have to say Nitecore was both lazy, greedy, and impatient in this regard.

Why? While they are right in regards that the springs would oxidize, they didn’t tell why

Well, at 30A, any normal spring would melt pretty much instantly.

Here’s the thought process Nitecore probably had:

1. Let’s use gold plated steel springs. Oh no, they failed at 6A.
2. Let’s use gold plated dual steel springs. Oh no, they failed at 9A.
2. Let’s use dual phosphor bronze springs. Oh no again, they failed at 18A of continuous use.
4. Well, nothing on the market actually exists that can handle the load of a 100-120W light running off of a single cell.
Let’s put a 10A cell in a 30A flashlight and weld nickel plated copper strips instead.

If the engineers, or rather, Nitecore, actually put in effort into designing adequate contacts, they should’ve just looked at BLF and see what members cooked up in spring design.

They could’ve used dual gold plated BeCu C17500 springs, and they would’ve worked quite well if they had waited for a 25-30A cell.

My very own high current Beryllium Copper springs Gen 3:
http://budgetlightforum.com/node/67401
Liitokala Aliexpress Stores Battery Fraud: http://budgetlightforum.com/node/60547

aginthelaw
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BlueSwordM wrote:
That’s not the problem.

Trying to push 30A through springs is a very, very difficult task.

Honestly, I have to say Nitecore was both lazy, greedy, and impatient in this regard.

Why? While they are right in regards that the springs would oxidize, they didn’t tell why

Well, at 30A, any normal spring would melt pretty much instantly.

Here’s the thought process Nitecore probably had:

1. Let’s use gold plated steel springs. Oh no, they failed at 6A.
2. Let’s use gold plated dual steel springs. Oh no, they failed at 9A.
2. Let’s use dual phosphor bronze springs. Oh no again, they failed at 18A of continuous use.
4. Well, nothing on the market actually exists that can handle the load of a 100-120W light running off of a single cell.
Let’s put a 10A cell in a 30A flashlight and weld nickel plated copper strips instead.

If the engineers, or rather, Nitecore, actually put in effort into designing adequate contacts, they should’ve just looked at BLF and see what members cooked up in spring design.

They could’ve used dual gold plated BeCu C17500 springs, and they would’ve worked quite well if they had waited for a 25-30A cell.

um, yeah. that’s what i said…the good thing is now i know why i said it. i can’t believe the wealth of info you guys have trapped in your minds…

never fear shadows…it means a light shines nearby

BlueSwordM
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Well, you’re right.

The gold plating doesn’t oxidize. It’s just that the springs fails first Smile

My very own high current Beryllium Copper springs Gen 3:
http://budgetlightforum.com/node/67401
Liitokala Aliexpress Stores Battery Fraud: http://budgetlightforum.com/node/60547

Lexel
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BlueSwordM wrote:
That’s not the problem.

Trying to push 30A through springs is a very, very difficult task.

Honestly, I have to say Nitecore was both lazy, greedy, and impatient in this regard.

Why? While they are right in regards that the springs would oxidize, they didn’t tell why

Well, at 30A, any normal spring would melt pretty much instantly.

Here’s the thought process Nitecore probably had:

1. Let’s use gold plated steel springs. Oh no, they failed at 6A.
2. Let’s use gold plated dual steel springs. Oh no, they failed at 9A.
2. Let’s use dual phosphor bronze springs. Oh no again, they failed at 18A of continuous use.
4. Well, nothing on the market actually exists that can handle the load of a 100-120W light running off of a single cell.
Let’s put a 10A cell in a 30A flashlight and weld nickel plated copper strips instead.

If the engineers, or rather, Nitecore, actually put in effort into designing adequate contacts, they should’ve just looked at BLF and see what members cooked up in spring design.

They could’ve used dual gold plated BeCu C17500 springs, and they would’ve worked quite well if they had waited for a 25-30A cell.

Why do people always think conventional?
You just need not the spring to conduct the current!
just use the spring to push the contact against the battery, you could use the same sort of contact like for spotwelding just with a bit raised button

Lumintop did it here

aginthelaw
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But wasn’t there a bunch of lights that failed in that run? Wasn’t it the Odl20c?

never fear shadows…it means a light shines nearby

Agro
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Or use a springless contact. Like DQG.
In a constant-length light that doesn’t need daily cell swaps (like that Nitecore) one could use a contact screw.

BTW I haven’t seen that Lumintop contact. Looks like a professionally done spring bypass. Smile

ichoderso
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some pictures of my copper E07 in the german forum:

https://www.taschenlampen-forum.de/threads/fireflies-e07-copper-titanium...

Tally-ho
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It’s nice to have the thread back on track with your CuTi E07 pictures but without a TLF account we can only see thumbnails.

ichoderso
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Tally-ho wrote:
It’s nice to have the thread back on track with your CuTi E07 pictures but without a TLF account we can only see thumbnails.

ok, I will load the pictures in a cloud and will publish it direct in this forum…..Sorry

BlueSwordM
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@Lexel, I do know about leaf spring contacts.

I’m just saying Nitecore should’ve used a better solution than making an unreplaceable cell pack.

My very own high current Beryllium Copper springs Gen 3:
http://budgetlightforum.com/node/67401
Liitokala Aliexpress Stores Battery Fraud: http://budgetlightforum.com/node/60547

ichoderso
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ichoderso
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Tom E
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I have zero interest in this Cu/Ti E07 after being totally disappointed in the D4 Cu/Ti. The D4 gets blaz'n hot in a couple seconds - pretty useless unless you got thermal protective gloves to operate the thing with. Sure, copper is great for thermal transfer, but there's gotta be a better way to use it, like wrapped in aluminum maybe, I dunno.... frown

Agro
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Tom E wrote:

I have zero interest in this Cu/Ti E07 after being totally disappointed in the D4 Cu/Ti. The D4 gets blaz’n hot in a couple seconds – pretty useless unless you got thermal protective gloves to operate the thing with. Sure, copper is great for thermal transfer, but there’s gotta be a better way to use it, like wrapped in aluminum maybe, I dunno…. frown


CRX has wrapped his triple in titanium. Which didn’t work well. Then he replaced that with carbon fibre and is happy with the result.
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ichoderso,

They are beautiful and great pics! Thank for going through the effort of posting them here!

Cheers! Beer Thumbs Up

contactcr
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@FireFlies, anything else in the pipeline you want to share? A refreshed E07? A new light?

Tally-ho
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Yes, thank you for taking the time Beer

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Yes, luv the pics - great job!! (should have said so before... frown)

I do luv the look of copper, but an E07 with all that power is wut scares me - least alum the rest of the light maybe?

caplang
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It seems E07 Cu edition product page is up on their web
http://www.ff-light.com/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=57

twisted raven
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Great deal at $0.00. May have to get one.
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twisted raven wrote:
Great deal at $0.00. May have to get one.
Yeah I was looking at that too. The price is right!!!

But somehow I don’t think Fireflies actually means to give these away for free. Ughh

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