26650 Batteries

Updated first post to include links to 26650 batteries. I'll keep track if anyone posts new ones.

Dave

Good work rides.

One thing i have not tested the trustfire 5000 mAh yet myself but reports on the net they are between 4200 and 4500 mAh like the king kongs, but i belive no one has been able to test both batteries with a discharge higher then 1 amp discharge due to basic hobby chargers and for the king kongs they have gone off data sheets.

Once my sample gets here most likely in 2 weeks i will discharge the trustfire 26650 and king kongs at 3 amps and then run a 7 amp discharge test with data logging and post up the graphs if hjk does not beat me to it, i think the trustfire protected 26650 is the safest option as its the only one protected and at 3 to 3.5 amp discharge the king kongs and protected trustfire 26650's should be close.

Im intrested to see if the protection pcb can give atlest 3.5 amps as thats all it needs to give and that is about the most your well driven xml will draw on one cell, since the 2400 / 3000 mAh 18650 trustfire flames can give 3 amps no problem i think they should be fine and early reports seams good.

There was a 1 amp test done here post #7

https://budgetlightforum.com/t/-/6606

SOLID bit of work Dave!! Heres 2 more for your consideration:

http://www.4sevens.com/product_info.php?cPath=53_57&products_id=2585

Of all these cells, which ones have the lowest internal resistance, and highest "C"?

thanks!!

Not sure about "all", but from those 2 you posted (4Sevens 26650 and Powerizer 26650), 2nd one is capable of higher currents and has lower internal resistance.

Updated first post. Thanks benckie and kramer!

If the cells can't do this for the ten or so milliseconds it will require to do the test the bin is the best place for them.

I think I have it narrowed down to these 3:

http://www.lighthound.com/Lighthound-LiMnNiCo-26650-3500mAh-Rechargeable-Lithium-Battery_p_3478.html

Which one of these is the best in terms of internal resistance and current delivery capabilities? That last one claims its capable of an 18A (!!!) draw... is that for real or a typo? They measured 3794 mah capacity at 18A rate (!!) in the test below.

And heres the discharge curve:

I am not worried about capacity since they are all around ~3500 AH, and that will vary greatly with current draw anyways, and I don't need cell protection. For this light I am using an XML in direct drive, and it draws 4~5A from a single cell.

Are there any others I should consider? I would like to avoid Ebay and the Asian exporters, simply because domestic sellers like Lighthound and Batteryspace are competitively priced, honest and ship fast. Is this a wise decision?... or should I expand my search?

I am leaning towards that one with the 18A capability... unless someone can convince me otherwise.

thanks in advance!!

It’s a IMR, even a 18650 one can do 20A easily:

So nope, not a typo.

kramer:

I am not any kind of electronics expert like Don or Shadowww or many of the other experts on this forum. I am pretty anal about researching stuff to get an understanding before I use it. So I'm expressing my opinion here, peppered with a little research knowledge. Lithium-Manganese (IMR) and some of the newer chemistries have several advantages over conventional Li-ion (Lithium-Cobalt). They are safer in that they don't vent with flames and don't contain the same noxious and dangerous chemicals, and they allow high current draw and are more tolerant of lower discharge than Li-Co. Because of this, you don't typically see protected versions. Check out AW's line of IMR and you will see all are unprotected.

So if it were me, I would do as you noted: Buy from one of the trusted U.S. sellers and buy IMR. That's what I intend to do in the future until the re-sellers and the battery makers start getting their shit together and provide us with more information. Or until we get some testing results from the most excellent BLF testers!

Ok. There appears to be a couple of different King Kongs being sold by IO. Mine are ICR 26650 XSL. The ones on there website now are INR. Simply, are the ones I have safe or not? They are being used in a JM05. Google has not been much help and the more you read here the more confusing it gets.

For anyone that is interested they were supplied with a small magnet aproximately 1mm x 5mm to go between the batterys as the negative and positive would not make contact. I have read that some people have a concern that if the magnet slipped it could short out on the outer tube. I dont believe that this would cause a problem as the magnet is to small in diameter to be in contact with the positive part and the battery and the outer tube at the same time.

My 3 are INR26650E

The KingKong ICR26650E are usual Li-Co cells:

http://www.kingcell.com.cn/en/ProductList.asp?SortID=41

This link shows the 18650 version, but this should be applicable to the 26650 cells too.

This is the cell i recently received from CNQ ordering the "Genuine 26650 3.7V 4000mah Li-on Battery". Their picture shows the INR26650E battery. I will contact Jo regarding this "issue".

The KingKong INR26650E are Li(NiCoMn)O2 cells. This is a better chemistry:

http://www.kingcell.com.cn/en/ProductList.asp?SortID=53

Thanks for researching for us. That confirms my suspicions as discussed up in post #9. I will make a note in the first post to reflect and send a note to Hank at IOS to get him to update his website. He should be selling them as different batteries, not randomly under one description.

AWESOME investigative work on the King Kong.

Quick question...

The orange Powerizer-3600 is "LiNiCoMn", The blue Lighthound-3500 is "LiMnNiCo"

Are these two the same cell chemistry just described differently? Furthermore are these two the same exact cell under a different shrink-wrap?

?????

kramer:

All great questions, but I think somebody who actually passed a chemistry class is going to have to answer on the description order thing Smile. My assumption is that both of the ones you mention are collectively referred to as Lithium-Manganese Rechargeables (IMR), but I could be totally wrong. As to who makes the underlying cells, it's a mystery at this point. Sure wish Panasonic/Sanyo or whomever would get into the 26650 game....

Might be worth an email to Lighthound and Batteryspace to try and get some answers.

Panasonic is in the 26650 game for some time, but we have to understand that none of these companies care about flashlights.

Don't care about flashlights? Blasphemy! Wink

I'm sure you are right. In my research I found several other apparent manufacturers of 26650 size cells, but they have different uses (such as ebs) and voltage ratings, like this one: http://www.a123systems.com/products-cells-26650-cylindrical-cell.htm

Panasonic have 26650 for long time but only with 2650mAh, 4.2v to 2.5V. There a new version with 3300mAh, 4.2V to 3.0V.

I uncovered a bunch of history behind 26650/700 size IMR (or LMR) cells from E-moli (or "emoli")... and their development for use in cordless power tools. Most notably the Miluakee 28V line. Some of that goes back to ~2007, so these cells have been out there for quite a while.

I could not uncover a raw-cell retailer for this manufacturer, or discharge curve graphs. It appears most hobby-ists were harvesting cells from power tool packs... My head started to spin at that point!!! Oi-yoy-yoy (for lack of a better word).