And it’s also going to last longer on regulated modes because of this too.
I disagree. Vf has nothing to do with battery power consumption on regulated modes. The battery voltage appears across both the current regulator and the diode. If the regulator is working, the current through the regulator is fixed. Battery power is simply battery voltage times regulator current. If the diode Vf is higher, more dissipation in the diode, less in the regulator. If the Vf is lower, less dissipation in the diode, more in the regulator. I would argue the diode can handle the dissipation better then the regulator. If Vf went to zero or very low, one would burn up those little regulator chips pretty quick, as they have no real heat sink.
Actually, the Vf does come into play in regulated modes. A lower Vf will allow the regulator to maintain operation for longer as battery voltage decreases. In order to stay in regulation, the battery voltage must exceed Vf plus the dropout voltage of the regulator chip. So even though the current consumption is Vf-independent when in regulation, the lower-Vf combination will “last longer” in regulated mode.
^^^ If you continue reading you will see that I admitted my error about a month ago, and the conversation went on. And I concluded (yet to be refuted) at the current levels that we were talking about for that emitter, that the diode voltage did not really matter. Unless you plan to run the battery below 3V.
That really was a fun discussion, at least for me.
—
PocketSammich wrote: I don’t need this, but I want it. Please sign me up.
https://imgur.com/BNVlWt9 Just looked at my emitters today and one of my LEDs is barely working. There’s a slight bit of light coming out but it’s significantly reduced. Is it a issue with the emitter or the main driver itself?
https://imgur.com/BNVlWt9 Just looked at my emitters today and one of my LEDs is barely working. There’s a slight bit of light coming out but it’s significantly reduced. Is it a issue with the emitter or the main driver itself?
@nastynate : it is the emitter as they are all wired in parallel. So something happened that raised the VF of the LED above the rest so it doesn’t get a fair share of current. I guess it could come from a poor solder joint under the LED which adds resistance only to that LED. It might start to come on at higher currents which will raise the VF of the other LEDs but you will still have less light output, but less heat and current as well.
@Cpeng so I guess I’ll just keep using it as is for now if it’s not going to hurt the light overall. How hard is an emitter swap to do? I guess if another goes out I could always Try to swap them out for some lower temperature emitters.
@nastynate : Honestly I haven’t ever done an emitter swap, or reflowed an LED (but I have soldered surface mount and through hole many times). But I would first try to reflow the LED to the board with hot air or a hot plate. A hot plate would relfow all 4 leds at once but if you have flux I think it will work fine. You would have to remove the MCPCB from the light by de-soldering the wires with an iron. There are a lot of you tube videos that show this. If it was me I would keep using it, and buy another one. Honestly its cheaper for me to buy another flash light then to get all the tools together to fix my own.
Do you have basic soldering skills? If so, emitter swapping is fairly easy.
I use the following method:
Desolder driver wires to the star.
Remove star from light (I find a small dental pick like tool is handy for reaching under stars to lever them up).
Place star in wooden clothespin. The edge of the star should be held by the pin. Do not put it over the LEDs.
Place wooden clothespin with star in small table vise.
Apply 40w soldering iron to bottom of star or if you have it the hot air gun from a hot air reflow station. Keep it there until star is hot enough to melt solder on the upper side. If no luck you may need to clean your solder tip or use a fatter tip.
Use tweezers to gently lift up LED while holding iron to underside of star with other hand.
For the non-working LED: I recommend applying a bit of fresh solder paste with a toothpick. Maybe it just doesn’t have enough and needs to be reflowed.
Cool the star. I do this by removing the star from the wooden clothesclip and placing it on the small anvil built into my table vise. This is enough to make the star safe to touch with fingers in less than a minute.
After reflow run a small handfile over the bottom of the star to smooth out any solder residue left by the iron.
Use Q-Tip and clean off all thermal paste under the star and on the shelf in the head.
Apply layer of fresh thermal paste. I use Arctic Silver 5.
Place star in light and reassemble.
I like to test reflows before putting them back in the light. I have a small 1xAA battery carrier I got from Radio Shack years ago with a wire coming out of each end. I put a 14500 inside and touch the wires to the contact pads of the star briefly to check that everything lights up as it is supposed to. In your case, I recommend testing the star after the reflow to make sure all 4 light up. If the dim LED still does not light up fully, you should probably replace that LED.
Make sure to go slowly and methodically. Don’t try to rush it, especially your first time.
Entire process to reflow all 4 LEDs and replace with different ones in the Emisar D4 shouldn’t take more than half an hour even going slowly.
Check the emitter with the multimeter set to continuity, observing polarity, and the meter will run enough current through the pads to make the emitter light up dimly. The least destructive way to test it if there’s a short circuit…
I have dropped this light on the cement a few times and the bezel looks like an octagon
I have tried to smooth it out but it is not good enough to hold a seal.
I looked on the int outdoors website and saw spare lens and optics, but no bezel.
Has anyone ever tried to buy a spare?
Might go for lens and optics too. They both came off the last time I dropped it. Maybe a magnet installed in my hand would help.
I have dropped this light on the cement a few times and the bezel looks like an octagon
I have tried to smooth it out but it is not good enough to hold a seal.
I looked on the int outdoors website and saw spare lens and optics, but no bezel.
Has anyone ever tried to buy a spare?
Might go for lens and optics too. They both came off the last time I dropped it. Maybe a magnet installed in my hand would help.
The titanium in your hand is not magnetic, though the plate in my head picks up satellite tv
I have dropped this light on the cement a few times and the bezel looks like an octagon
I have tried to smooth it out but it is not good enough to hold a seal.
I looked on the int outdoors website and saw spare lens and optics, but no bezel.
Has anyone ever tried to buy a spare?
Might go for lens and optics too. They both came off the last time I dropped it. Maybe a magnet installed in my hand would help.
Ouch!
If your bezel is bashed up from being dropped, your best bet might be to try to bend it back into place. Maybe with pliers when it is removed from the light.
Alternatively, perhaps you can buy the Titanium D4 and install its bezel in your aluminum D4. Titanium is tougher and should be more resistant to abuse.
Sure I bent it back, but it is thin and bound to happen again. I woul buy the titanium bezel if sold separate or steel if an option, but not an entire light. I cannot be the only one that abuses their light can I?
I have dropped this light on the cement a few times and the bezel looks like an octagon
I have tried to smooth it out but it is not good enough to hold a seal.
I looked on the int outdoors website and saw spare lens and optics, but no bezel.
Has anyone ever tried to buy a spare?
Might go for lens and optics too. They both came off the last time I dropped it. Maybe a magnet installed in my hand would help.
Shoot Hank an email. Got mine replaced when I bought another light from him even though I did not buy my second D4 from him. Neal refused to help so gained a lot of respect for Hank and will never buy from Neal’s Gadgets again.
Might be prudent to learn not to drop your tools, I’d ask Hank about purchasing a Ti bezel and then I’ definitely be more careful about it falling.
My Dad taught me long ago to consider what it meant to me if something could fall and be broken, place it as low as possible if falling was a risk, if it’s on the ground it can’t fall! Not having the money to replace something I got good at not letting it get broken in the first place, accidents do happen of course. I have never stuck my phone in my back pocket, for example. My daughter has ruined way too many phones, sitting on them or dropping them.
Lanyards , if you just can’t avoid droppage, and this may mean your light choices are limited to lights with a good lanyard… or at the bare minimum lights with a robust build.
(The IRA Night Watch is built like a tank with a very thick SS bezel, for example)
Sure I bent it back, but it is thin and bound to happen again. I woul buy the titanium bezel if sold separate or steel if an option, but not an entire light. I cannot be the only one that abuses their light can I?
The bezel O-ring is very thin, so the seal can be easily broken. My white D4 didn’t even keep water out when it was new; it leaked through the bezel (not the lens). I fixed it by swapping the thin O-ring for one of the spares included that are designed for the body. It’s much thicker and a tight fit, but you might want to give it a go; it could be wide enough to seal the uneven surface of a damaged bezel.
I diassembled my D4 to flash new firmware, now it dims when i turn it off. I think the circuit is short somewhere, what is the best possible cause?
Update: after some test with multimeter, i found that the flashlight aluminium body was short circuit with the negative of mcpcb. I also found that the noctigon mcpcb is made of a thin top layer of copper to conduct electricity, and the thick copper bottom layer. My screws somehow connect the top and bottom layers. But the screws are also used in original D4, why does it cause problems now?
I diassembled my D4 to flash new firmware, now it dims when i turn it off. I think the circuit is short somewhere, what is the best possible cause?
Update: after some test with multimeter, i found that the flashlight aluminium body was short circuit with the negative of mcpcb. I also found that the noctigon mcpcb is made of a thin top layer of copper to conduct electricity, and the thick copper bottom layer. My screws somehow connect the top and bottom layers. But the screws are also used in original D4, why does it cause problems now?
Did you lose the insulating washers? There should be two washers per screw, a metal one and an insulating one. The insulating one goes against the mcpcb, and the metal one on top against the screw.
Anduril works good on D4? time ago I read a thread where it was said that the temperature sensor of Anduril didn’t work well in D4.
Works very well on the D4. I have Anduril running on three D4’s. As long as you set temp limit at a fairly conservative level (mine are at 45C-50C). Then it never gets too hot.
Anduril works good on D4? time ago I read a thread where it was said that the temperature sensor of Anduril didn’t work well in D4.
Works very well on the D4. I have Anduril running on three D4’s. As long as you set temp limit at a fairly conservative level (mine are at 45C-50C). Then it never gets too hot.
Conversely, I have Anduril on all my D4’s, and I set the temp to maximum and have no trouble. TK fixed the old thermal problems, or at least put in a workaround. It’s called something like “THERMHARDDROP” I can’t remember exactly. But it drops the output down to a sane level after the temp starts climbing too high. Works real well, if maybe a little overzealous. So if you want extended turbo times, you’ll need to set the maximum temp higher. In my experience anyway.
Location: (469219) 2016 HO3 // I get way more privmsgs than I can respond to, so please ask in a public thread if possible, for a faster answer.
Yeah, Anduril works fine on the D4 now. It’s just a bit more cautious than necessary when it’s in turbo mode. It’s treated as a burst mode, and as soon as it looks like it might be getting hot, it ramps quickly down to a level which doesn’t heat up so fast.
Anduril works good on D4? time ago I read a thread where it was said that the temperature sensor of Anduril didn’t work well in D4.
Works very well on the D4. I have Anduril running on three D4’s. As long as you set temp limit at a fairly conservative level (mine are at 45C-50C). Then it never gets too hot.
Conversely, I have Anduril on all my D4’s, and I set the temp to maximum and have no trouble. TK fixed the old thermal problems, or at least put in a workaround. It’s called something like “THERMHARDDROP” I can’t remember exactly. But it drops the output down to a sane level after the temp starts climbing too high. Works real well, if maybe a little overzealous. So if you want extended turbo times, you’ll need to set the maximum temp higher. In my experience anyway.
Right you are.
1) I don’t have a use for extended turbo bursts.
2) I use a D4 for work. And regularly use it at “medium/high” levels, where the temp control keeps regulating. And when I’m done working I like being able to touch my light, not burn my fingers
I diassembled my D4 to flash new firmware, now it dims when i turn it off. I think the circuit is short somewhere, what is the best possible cause?
Update: after some test with multimeter, i found that the flashlight aluminium body was short circuit with the negative of mcpcb. I also found that the noctigon mcpcb is made of a thin top layer of copper to conduct electricity, and the thick copper bottom layer. My screws somehow connect the top and bottom layers. But the screws are also used in original D4, why does it cause problems now?
Did you lose the insulating washers? There should be two washers per screw, a metal one and an insulating one. The insulating one goes against the mcpcb, and the metal one on top against the screw.
Yes i did lose the insulating washers, the washers insulate the top layer of mcpcb from the head of the screws, but, the threads of the screws can still connect the top and bottom layers of the mcpcb??
Here’s some scope shots of the output. Measured optically OTF. Most of them links not to clutter the thread too much. Used a slightly discharged 18650GA and there probably was some throttling going on.
Maukka…
In another thread I mentioned how the driver seems to be acting as a current limiting device. Though in theory a FET driver shouldn’t behave like that. Kiriba-ru questioned that.
Quote:
Also, I dont think output voltage from light meter is proper value to measure (for this discussion). Led have some delay but sensor also have some delay.
Actually, the Vf does come into play in regulated modes. A lower Vf will allow the regulator to maintain operation for longer as battery voltage decreases. In order to stay in regulation, the battery voltage must exceed Vf plus the dropout voltage of the regulator chip. So even though the current consumption is Vf-independent when in regulation, the lower-Vf combination will “last longer” in regulated mode.
^^^
If you continue reading you will see that I admitted my error about a month ago, and the conversation went on. And I concluded (yet to be refuted) at the current levels that we were talking about for that emitter, that the diode voltage did not really matter. Unless you plan to run the battery below 3V.
That really was a fun discussion, at least for me.
PocketSammich wrote: I don’t need this, but I want it. Please sign me up.
https://imgur.com/BNVlWt9 Just looked at my emitters today and one of my LEDs is barely working. There’s a slight bit of light coming out but it’s significantly reduced. Is it a issue with the emitter or the main driver itself?
@nastynate : it is the emitter as they are all wired in parallel. So something happened that raised the VF of the LED above the rest so it doesn’t get a fair share of current. I guess it could come from a poor solder joint under the LED which adds resistance only to that LED. It might start to come on at higher currents which will raise the VF of the other LEDs but you will still have less light output, but less heat and current as well.
@Cpeng so I guess I’ll just keep using it as is for now if it’s not going to hurt the light overall. How hard is an emitter swap to do? I guess if another goes out I could always Try to swap them out for some lower temperature emitters.
@nastynate : Honestly I haven’t ever done an emitter swap, or reflowed an LED (but I have soldered surface mount and through hole many times). But I would first try to reflow the LED to the board with hot air or a hot plate. A hot plate would relfow all 4 leds at once but if you have flux I think it will work fine. You would have to remove the MCPCB from the light by de-soldering the wires with an iron. There are a lot of you tube videos that show this. If it was me I would keep using it, and buy another one. Honestly its cheaper for me to buy another flash light then to get all the tools together to fix my own.
Do you have basic soldering skills? If so, emitter swapping is fairly easy.
I use the following method:
I like to test reflows before putting them back in the light. I have a small 1xAA battery carrier I got from Radio Shack years ago with a wire coming out of each end. I put a 14500 inside and touch the wires to the contact pads of the star briefly to check that everything lights up as it is supposed to. In your case, I recommend testing the star after the reflow to make sure all 4 light up. If the dim LED still does not light up fully, you should probably replace that LED.
Make sure to go slowly and methodically. Don’t try to rush it, especially your first time.
Entire process to reflow all 4 LEDs and replace with different ones in the Emisar D4 shouldn’t take more than half an hour even going slowly.
Check the emitter with the multimeter set to continuity, observing polarity, and the meter will run enough current through the pads to make the emitter light up dimly. The least destructive way to test it if there’s a short circuit…
I have dropped this light on the cement a few times and the bezel looks like an octagon
I have tried to smooth it out but it is not good enough to hold a seal.
I looked on the int outdoors website and saw spare lens and optics, but no bezel.
Has anyone ever tried to buy a spare?
Might go for lens and optics too. They both came off the last time I dropped it. Maybe a magnet installed in my hand would help.
The titanium in your hand is not magnetic, though the plate in my head picks up satellite tv
never fear shadows…it means a light shines nearby
If your bezel is bashed up from being dropped, your best bet might be to try to bend it back into place. Maybe with pliers when it is removed from the light.
Alternatively, perhaps you can buy the Titanium D4 and install its bezel in your aluminum D4. Titanium is tougher and should be more resistant to abuse.
Sure I bent it back, but it is thin and bound to happen again. I woul buy the titanium bezel if sold separate or steel if an option, but not an entire light. I cannot be the only one that abuses their light can I?
Shoot Hank an email. Got mine replaced when I bought another light from him even though I did not buy my second D4 from him. Neal refused to help so gained a lot of respect for Hank and will never buy from Neal’s Gadgets again.
Might be prudent to learn not to drop your tools, I’d ask Hank about purchasing a Ti bezel and then I’ definitely be more careful about it falling.
My Dad taught me long ago to consider what it meant to me if something could fall and be broken, place it as low as possible if falling was a risk, if it’s on the ground it can’t fall! Not having the money to replace something I got good at not letting it get broken in the first place, accidents do happen of course. I have never stuck my phone in my back pocket, for example. My daughter has ruined way too many phones, sitting on them or dropping them.
Lanyards , if you just can’t avoid droppage, and this may mean your light choices are limited to lights with a good lanyard… or at the bare minimum lights with a robust build.
(The IRA Night Watch is built like a tank with a very thick SS bezel, for example)
The bezel O-ring is very thin, so the seal can be easily broken. My white D4 didn’t even keep water out when it was new; it leaked through the bezel (not the lens). I fixed it by swapping the thin O-ring for one of the spares included that are designed for the body. It’s much thicker and a tight fit, but you might want to give it a go; it could be wide enough to seal the uneven surface of a damaged bezel.
I diassembled my D4 to flash new firmware, now it dims when i turn it off. I think the circuit is short somewhere, what is the best possible cause?
Update: after some test with multimeter, i found that the flashlight aluminium body was short circuit with the negative of mcpcb. I also found that the noctigon mcpcb is made of a thin top layer of copper to conduct electricity, and the thick copper bottom layer. My screws somehow connect the top and bottom layers. But the screws are also used in original D4, why does it cause problems now?
Emisar D4 Cyan Photos
Convoy S2+ triple & Solarforce P1D quad Nichia R9080 with copper pills
For sale: Nichia 219B sw45k R9080 & 219C 5000k R9050
The flashlight Mod God’s yankin your chain… they’re funny that way.
I agree with everyone that suggested talking to Hank. He’s astoundingly accommodating to everything and anything.
Is there any option to configure the temperature sensor as in Anduril? My D4 marks about 15º more than the ambient temperature
Nope, not without changing the firmware. RampingIOS V2 doesn’t have a sensor calibration function. RampingIOS V3 does though, and so does Anduril.
Did you lose the insulating washers? There should be two washers per screw, a metal one and an insulating one. The insulating one goes against the mcpcb, and the metal one on top against the screw.
Thanks TK. Anduril works good on D4? time ago I read a thread where it was said that the temperature sensor of Anduril didn’t work well in D4.
Works very well on the D4. I have Anduril running on three D4’s. As long as you set temp limit at a fairly conservative level (mine are at 45C-50C). Then it never gets too hot.
Conversely, I have Anduril on all my D4’s, and I set the temp to maximum and have no trouble. TK fixed the old thermal problems, or at least put in a workaround. It’s called something like “THERM HARD DROP” I can’t remember exactly. But it drops the output down to a sane level after the temp starts climbing too high. Works real well, if maybe a little overzealous. So if you want extended turbo times, you’ll need to set the maximum temp higher. In my experience anyway.
Yeah, Anduril works fine on the D4 now. It’s just a bit more cautious than necessary when it’s in turbo mode. It’s treated as a burst mode, and as soon as it looks like it might be getting hot, it ramps quickly down to a level which doesn’t heat up so fast.
Thanks to all, I’ll buy an USB ASP Programmer and I try to install Anduril to see how it works.
Cool! Be sure to check out this thread on how to remove it best.
Right you are.
1) I don’t have a use for extended turbo bursts.
2) I use a D4 for work. And regularly use it at “medium/high” levels, where the temp control keeps regulating. And when I’m done working I like being able to touch my light, not burn my fingers
Yes i did lose the insulating washers, the washers insulate the top layer of mcpcb from the head of the screws, but, the threads of the screws can still connect the top and bottom layers of the mcpcb??
Emisar D4 Cyan Photos
Convoy S2+ triple & Solarforce P1D quad Nichia R9080 with copper pills
For sale: Nichia 219B sw45k R9080 & 219C 5000k R9050
Maukka…
In another thread I mentioned how the driver seems to be acting as a current limiting device. Though in theory a FET driver shouldn’t behave like that. Kiriba-ru questioned that.
http://budgetlightforum.com/comment/1465262#comment-1465262
What do you think about that?
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