Ok. There appears to be a couple of different King Kongs being sold by IO. Mine are ICR 26650 XSL. The ones on there website now are INR. Simply, are the ones I have safe or not? They are being used in a JM05. Google has not been much help and the more you read here the more confusing it gets.
For anyone that is interested they were supplied with a small magnet aproximately 1mm x 5mm to go between the batterys as the negative and positive would not make contact. I have read that some people have a concern that if the magnet slipped it could short out on the outer tube. I dont believe that this would cause a problem as the magnet is to small in diameter to be in contact with the positive part and the battery and the outer tube at the same time.
This link shows the 18650 version, but this should be applicable to the 26650 cells too.
This is the cell i recently received from CNQ ordering the "Genuine 26650 3.7V 4000mah Li-on Battery". Their picture shows the INR26650E battery. I will contact Jo regarding this "issue".
The KingKong INR26650E are Li(NiCoMn)O2 cells. This is a better chemistry:
Thanks for researching for us. That confirms my suspicions as discussed up in post #9. I will make a note in the first post to reflect and send a note to Hank at IOS to get him to update his website. He should be selling them as different batteries, not randomly under one description.
All great questions, but I think somebody who actually passed a chemistry class is going to have to answer on the description order thing . My assumption is that both of the ones you mention are collectively referred to as Lithium-Manganese Rechargeables (IMR), but I could be totally wrong. As to who makes the underlying cells, it's a mystery at this point. Sure wish Panasonic/Sanyo or whomever would get into the 26650 game....
Might be worth an email to Lighthound and Batteryspace to try and get some answers.
I uncovered a bunch of history behind 26650/700 size IMR (or LMR) cells from E-moli (or "emoli")... and their development for use in cordless power tools. Most notably the Miluakee 28V line. Some of that goes back to ~2007, so these cells have been out there for quite a while.
I could not uncover a raw-cell retailer for this manufacturer, or discharge curve graphs. It appears most hobby-ists were harvesting cells from power tool packs... My head started to spin at that point!!! Oi-yoy-yoy (for lack of a better word).
To make it even more confusing!!!, the pictures on IOS now show ICR26650E (XSL). I swear yesterday the pictures were INR26650E. On top of that, The pictures on CQG now read INR26650E, but the ones I received from them were ICR26650E.
Lucy, you got some 'splainin to do....
Hank, if you are reading this thread like I suggested in my email to you, this needs to be sorted out. Us BLFers would like to know what exactly we are purchasing.
The first ones I got from them where the INR's (the better kind), my next order they came as ICR's even though they listed them as INR's AND get this they raised the price of them by $1 each for a Worse battery. So now I have a mixture of both, which means I can't use them in series for other lights. Vendors ought to learn about the products they actually Sell.....and to think I paid extra for the lesser quality batteries and can't even use them the way I intended to.
"To make it even more confusing!!!, the pictures on IOS now show ICR26650E (XSL). I swear yesterday the pictures were INR26650E. On top of that, The pictures on CQG now read INR26650E, but the ones I received from them were ICR26650E.
Lucy, you got some 'splainin to do....
Hank, if you are reading this thread like I suggested in my email to you, this needs to be sorted out. Us BLFers would like to know what exactly we are purchasing."
Yes you are correct. They have again changed battery types overnight. (Well, overnight here). Tennis anyone.
I think you misunderstood my point. My concern was for the safety of the person conducting the experiment. A dead short is the worst way to test even a "safe" chem cell. Well, 2nd worst after forms of physical abuse like puncture, crush, incinerate.
Putting worse or better aside as a matter of opinion, or as a measure of technical specifications, the one thing that I can't stress enough here is the safety issue. Plain and simple - LiCo chem cells are the loser by a landslide when it comes to safety. For me, that's reason enough to avoid them. Accidents happen, and if an accident happens to one of my lights, I want to be sure it doesn't have LiCo chem cells in it when it does.
Here's a thread worth at least skimming. The accident happened with safe chem LiMn cells, 18650 in size, and the power of the explosion was still devastating. The owner was very fortunate to not have been holding the light when it happened - he surely would have been mutilated if not killed. Horrors aside, there's some great info buried within that thread, post #129 especially.
The takeaway for me is that among all the Li-Ion rechargeables, only LiFePO4 chem is safe from explosion and all Li chem cells that fail and vent will release extremely toxic poisonous gasses, "safe chem" varieties included. That's scary enough. Why any company even manufactures LiCo cells in 26650 size, with PCB or not, is beyond me. I will never own one. Re-reading that thread makes me want to reconsider all my IMR cells and convert everything to LiFePO4 or NiMH.
I'm in a couple of different discussions about this INR/ICR thing. I noticed the different batteries right away on my second IO order. I have 7 King Kongs; 4 INRs and 2 ICRs. My first order included 3 INRs (free shipping with a third battery) and the second order included 2 INRs and 2 ICRs. I have no idea how many times I mixed the two in my JM05 because I naturally assumed the ICRs were from a newer batch or something. Now I discover they are entirely different chemistries?
IO now says, "The INR26650E have been discontinued" and "The King Kong cells are now ICR26650E." And, they're $9.47. So, they've been replaced with an inferior chemistry?
Ahh well, I guess it's not that big a deal. Would have been nice to know. I bet Hank knew as much as we did . . . or as much as we used to know. There's some pretty intelligent fellows around here. I can't keep up with larnin' like ya'll got.
I responded to your post in "what you got today", but I referred you right back to here. Just be sure you don't mix the different chemistry cells in the same light and you should be good. I believe ICR is just a bigger version of your standard 18650 cell. What bothers me is the mixing and matching on the sellers websites. I want accurate descriptions and above all I want to know what I am buying - don't like the lottery approach to supply and demand.
. My assumption is that both of the ones you mention are collectively referred to as Lithium-Manganese Rechargeables (IMR), but I could be totally wrong. As to who makes the underlying cells, it's a mystery at this point. Sure wish Panasonic/Sanyo or whomever would get into the 26650 game....
Vendors ought to learn about the products they actually Sell.....and to think I paid extra for the lesser quality batteries and can't even use them the way I intended to.