Copper titanium alloys.

21 posts / 0 new
Last post
zerodish
Offline
Last seen: 1 month 6 days ago
Joined: 05/31/2014 - 15:32
Posts: 73
Copper titanium alloys.

Titanium is replacing beryllium in automobile antennas. The alloys are suitable for making springs and electrical contacts. Is any one making springs out of this stuff?

BlueSwordM
BlueSwordM's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 day 10 hours ago
Joined: 11/29/2017 - 12:34
Posts: 5608
Location: Canada

Wouldn’t really work too well with the type of springs we use.

Beryllium copper C17530 has about the same yield strength and resistance to plastic deformation as titanium.

I looked at them when researching copper alloys for my BLF springs.

They had very similar mechanical properties.

However, the conductivity of titanium copper alloys tops out at 20% IACS, while BeCu C17530 is at 37,5%.

Basically, it was a no brainer to use BeCu C17530 over TiCu C1990 and other alloys.

However, it could be used still for lower performance spring if it is not needed.

My very own high current Beryllium Copper springs Gen 3:
http://budgetlightforum.com/node/67401
Liitokala Aliexpress Stores Battery Fraud: http://budgetlightforum.com/node/60547

Agro
Agro's picture
Online
Last seen: 1 min 31 sec ago
Joined: 05/14/2017 - 11:16
Posts: 6869
Location: Ślōnsk

What would be the price difference? I wonder if TiCu would make sense for some budget light manufacturers?…

djozz
djozz's picture
Offline
Last seen: 6 hours 10 min ago
Joined: 09/07/2012 - 17:04
Posts: 18091
Location: Amsterdam

TiCu is non-toxic, that counts for something. 20% IACS is still very good.

Agro
Agro's picture
Online
Last seen: 1 min 31 sec ago
Joined: 05/14/2017 - 11:16
Posts: 6869
Location: Ślōnsk

djozz, your post is valid but someone who doesn’t know anything about it may be misled to think that the issue is bigger than it is really.
When talking about CuBe toxicity please be specific:
Only its dust is toxic, unless someone grinds the spring there is no risk for them.

djozz
djozz's picture
Offline
Last seen: 6 hours 10 min ago
Joined: 09/07/2012 - 17:04
Posts: 18091
Location: Amsterdam

Agro wrote:
djozz, your post is valid but someone who doesn’t know anything about it may be misled to think that the issue is bigger than it is really.
When talking about CuBe toxicity please be specific:
Only its dust is toxic, unless someone grinds the spring there is no risk for them.

I assumed that the reader knew what the risk was as it was discussed in Blue’s spring thread before, but you are right to add that piece of information here also. Still the risk of being in contact with Be-dust is not just theory, as a modder I have sanded many springs for various reasons, it is one of the common things that is done on BLF. Question is of course if when you finally die, can the cause of death ever be backcasted to your BLF modding days? Party
clientequator
clientequator's picture
Offline
Last seen: 11 hours 33 min ago
Joined: 12/05/2018 - 15:42
Posts: 266

djozz wrote:
Agro wrote:
djozz, your post is valid but someone who doesn't know anything about it may be misled to think that the issue is bigger than it is really. When talking about CuBe toxicity please be specific: Only its dust is toxic, unless someone grinds the spring there is no risk for them.
I assumed that the reader knew what the risk was as it was discussed in Blue's spring thread before, but you are right to add that piece of information here also. Still the risk of being in contact with Be-dust is not just theory, as a modder I have sanded many springs for various reasons, it is one of the common things that is done on BLF. Question is of course if when you finally die, can the cause of death ever be backcasted to your BLF modding days? ^:)

 

Mr. djozz, may I know why you sand the spring? Is this for good contact with battery to make spring top flat?

BlueSwordM
BlueSwordM's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 day 10 hours ago
Joined: 11/29/2017 - 12:34
Posts: 5608
Location: Canada

Yeah, why would you sand springs?

Nickel/silver plated copper alloys springs are very easy to solder to, and there is no gain in sanding these kind of springs, unless you want to completely remove the plating for some reason.

My very own high current Beryllium Copper springs Gen 3:
http://budgetlightforum.com/node/67401
Liitokala Aliexpress Stores Battery Fraud: http://budgetlightforum.com/node/60547

djozz
djozz's picture
Offline
Last seen: 6 hours 10 min ago
Joined: 09/07/2012 - 17:04
Posts: 18091
Location: Amsterdam

I sand tops of springs a bit flat to solder a brass button. Also after a spring-bypass I tend to flatten the solder blob for better battery contact, also some spring material comes off then. The blue springs hardly need a bypass of course.

clientequator
clientequator's picture
Offline
Last seen: 11 hours 33 min ago
Joined: 12/05/2018 - 15:42
Posts: 266
djozz wrote:
I sand tops of springs a bit flat to solder a brass button. Also after a spring-bypass I tend to flatten the solder blob for better battery contact, also some spring material comes off then. The blue springs hardly need a bypass of course.

Mr. djozz, what is a blue spring?

djozz
djozz's picture
Offline
Last seen: 6 hours 10 min ago
Joined: 09/07/2012 - 17:04
Posts: 18091
Location: Amsterdam

Sorry, it has become slang on BLF: a Blue spring is a very low-resistent nickel-plated BeCu spring that was custom-ordered by BlueSwordM and sold to many BLF-members lately.

Firelight2
Firelight2's picture
Offline
Last seen: 7 hours 27 min ago
Joined: 04/08/2011 - 15:17
Posts: 4771
Location: California

Not quite sure why you’d want to do a spring bypass with a low-resistance Be-Cu spring. Doesn’t that defeat the purpose of using a low-resistance spring? If doing a spring bypass, might as well use a steel spring.

djozz
djozz's picture
Offline
Last seen: 6 hours 10 min ago
Joined: 09/07/2012 - 17:04
Posts: 18091
Location: Amsterdam

^true Smile I have not bypassed any BeCu or phosforbronze spring sofar, but Dale has, and some others.

DavidEF
DavidEF's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 week 3 days ago
Joined: 06/05/2014 - 06:00
Posts: 7699
Location: Salisbury, North Carolina, USA

Firelight2 wrote:
Not quite sure why you’d want to do a spring bypass with a low-resistance Be-Cu spring. Doesn’t that defeat the purpose of using a low-resistance spring? If doing a spring bypass, might as well use a steel spring.

Well, the word ‘bypass’ infers something that isn’t true, namely that the spring is no longer conducting electric current. Actually, doing a “spring bypass” is exactly equivalent to stacking resistors. The current flows through BOTH paths. In the case of highly conductive springs, our real-world results may not show much change, because there are other possible bottle-necks. But there is definitely a lot less resistance in a circuit that includes a Be-Cu spring compared to one with a steel spring when both are bypassed (or if they both aren’t bypassed, obviously).

The Cycle of Goodness: “No one prospers without rendering benefit to others”
- The YKK Philosophy

BlueSwordM
BlueSwordM's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 day 10 hours ago
Joined: 11/29/2017 - 12:34
Posts: 5608
Location: Canada

You are all right.

Bypassing a single BeCu springs can still yield a non-negligible difference in performance at very high currents. One massive advantage of using a BeCu spring though is that if the bypass fails, your build won’t catch on fire because of a melting spring.

This is why people like Dale always bypass springs no matter what they are made of.

Unless you’re me and you are a lazy incompetent person that can’t bypass springs no matter how much practice or how good my equipment is Facepalm

That’s why I actually designed a dual spring setup. It’s an extremely potent setup, supporting 20A+ currents without much problem at all. It can actually handle higher currents as Texas Ace and I have tested, but reliability has not been tested above 21A(max current of my testing setup), and it’s not probably going to fare well.

My very own high current Beryllium Copper springs Gen 3:
http://budgetlightforum.com/node/67401
Liitokala Aliexpress Stores Battery Fraud: http://budgetlightforum.com/node/60547

BlueSwordM
BlueSwordM's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 day 10 hours ago
Joined: 11/29/2017 - 12:34
Posts: 5608
Location: Canada

So, got something from my spring manufacturer.

Ultimate conical spring(Rev 5.1)
Material: Beryllium Copper Titanium C17550 60% IACS

That last one actually comes from one of the R&D centers of the spring manufacturer.
It’s a prototype alloy, from what I understand, having slightly less beryllium and a touch of titanium.
Much more expensive than BeCu C17530, and still quite a lot more than C17500.
But its conductivity crushes C17530 by a long shot while having similar mechanical properties.

If we can actually get this in our springs, that would make them the absolute best.
However, the price would easily double, or even triple, according to the manufacturer.
Will stay in the R&D phase for now. Smile

My very own high current Beryllium Copper springs Gen 3:
http://budgetlightforum.com/node/67401
Liitokala Aliexpress Stores Battery Fraud: http://budgetlightforum.com/node/60547

Agro
Agro's picture
Online
Last seen: 1 min 31 sec ago
Joined: 05/14/2017 - 11:16
Posts: 6869
Location: Ślōnsk

BlueSwordM, if you have updates on the topic, where will they be posted? Here or in your springs thread?
I don’t read the latter but I’d love to be up to date with this development. Smile

Wyre
Wyre's picture
Offline
Last seen: 4 months 2 days ago
Joined: 05/04/2017 - 06:18
Posts: 31
Location: Deep in the Ozarks, USA

These new springs sound sick, I do believe that I will have to have a set for the BLF Q8 that I am currently modding.

BlueSwordM
BlueSwordM's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 day 10 hours ago
Joined: 11/29/2017 - 12:34
Posts: 5608
Location: Canada

Nah, it’s just a new “wonder” spring material.

I doubt we are ever going to get it in our springs, not only because of price, but sample capacity.

So, more meaningful updates will come in the main spring thread, but talking about copper alloys for springs can be done here.

Still, the response really surprised, and even shocked me.
This is why I removed it from the main thread. To prevent hype from forming.

Who knew they were researching new alloys?

My very own high current Beryllium Copper springs Gen 3:
http://budgetlightforum.com/node/67401
Liitokala Aliexpress Stores Battery Fraud: http://budgetlightforum.com/node/60547

Wyre
Wyre's picture
Offline
Last seen: 4 months 2 days ago
Joined: 05/04/2017 - 06:18
Posts: 31
Location: Deep in the Ozarks, USA

I dont like doing spring bypasses, I am not very good at them. If I can just replace the springs and get the performance that I am after… well, I am going to do it.

Besides, springs in and of themselves are not very expensive, and it is quite time consuming for me to get perfect spring bypasses… I have wasted so much wire trying to get perfect bypasses made. (I know, I am a newbie.. .I suck, etc etc etc)

I imagine that it will probably take me several hours to do the spring bypasses on my Q8.

BlueSwordM
BlueSwordM's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 day 10 hours ago
Joined: 11/29/2017 - 12:34
Posts: 5608
Location: Canada

Well, there already are my BeCu C17530 springs:
http://budgetlightforum.com/node/64047

They are still very good, and in a dual spring setup, are absolute beasts and can handle 20A+ no problem.

Here’s my own:

My very own high current Beryllium Copper springs Gen 3:
http://budgetlightforum.com/node/67401
Liitokala Aliexpress Stores Battery Fraud: http://budgetlightforum.com/node/60547