“The CRI is determined by the light source’s spectrum. An incandescent lamp has a continuous spectrum, a fluorescent lamp has a discrete line spectrum; the incandescent lamp has the higher CRI.”
so how can any led have decent CRI?
since its ‘white light’ is basically just blue and yellow, no red and no continuous spectrum?
i;m trying to learn here, not just being difficult..
wle
—
"You never have the wind with you - it's either against you,or you're having a good day." Daniel Behrman, "The Man Who Loved Bicycles". It never gets easy, you just go faster. -Greg Lemond. ,ø¤º°`°º¤ø¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø¸
ok i still don;t get it
you can adjust to anything, apparently
i have a 3000K light [astrolux s1] and it looks too yellow to me
wle
Your eyes take at least 45 minutes to adapt. What is the color temperature of your indoor lighting? Are you looking at 3000k daytime, under 5000k ceiling lighting, or WW ceiling lighting?
though i have cooler ones in the kitchen, maybe 3500k
wle
—
"You never have the wind with you - it's either against you,or you're having a good day." Daniel Behrman, "The Man Who Loved Bicycles". It never gets easy, you just go faster. -Greg Lemond. ,ø¤º°`°º¤ø¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø¸
Your eyes take at least 45 minutes to adapt. What is the color temperature of your indoor lighting? Are you looking at 3000k daytime, under 5000k ceiling lighting, or WW ceiling lighting?
wle, to add onto this, are you looking at a computer/smartphone/tablet/TV without blue blocking filters as well? Do you have an LED street light or high powered security light outside any of your windows?
Also, I don’t know if you’re using fluorescent, but most household LED products are at least one nominal CCT higher then advertised. So verifying that those LEDs are 3500K and not 3800K, would be helpful but not likely possible in determining what light is actually around you. That verification can only be done with a pricey spectrometer, unfortunately.
since its ‘white light’ is basically just blue and yellow, no red and no continuous spectrum?
Nope, see here the spectral power distribution of the Nichia 219B in the FW3A (red line compared to the black line which is the reference light source), it is not just made out of blue and yellow wavelengths.
See also this Maukka’s test here, for the Nichia Optisolis 5000K for example.
On the middle upper graph, see how the optisolis 5000K (in red) is close to the reference light’s CQS, hence its excellent CRI ratings.
since its ‘white light’ is basically just blue and yellow, no red and no continuous spectrum?
There is indeed red in a high quality LED. I like this colorized spectral power graph as you can better visualize what the component parts, like the cyan, greens, reds, and so on, of nearly “ideal” white light.
The reason why florescents have such poor color rendering and color qualities is their spectral power. They have an in-ordinate amount of green light, along with allot of yellow in this case, and almost no red and cyan. Compare the spectrum of this 3000K fluorescent to the same 3000K high- CRILED at the top to see what I mean. You see all the chunks missing?
Fluorescent does exist in 90 CRI form factors typically used in high quality indoor lighting, but even that has too little red and too much green.
dumb question, but how could 2000K have a high CRI?
wouldn;t it be too yellow, and not render blues and purples accurately?
How could 6000K have high CRI, wouldn’t that be too blue, and not render reds/oranges accurately? Chromatic adaptation is the mechanism that in the human eye that corrects for CCT/SPD differences.
Sorry if that came off as snobish.
i don’t get it
it seems it doesn;t matter either way?
The “what we see” representations are a bit off, I think. With the 3000K light the red color of the ball and other reddish things will stand out more brightly even if the eyes have had time to adjust, in my experience. But otherwise the principle holds true. Just think of any time you’ve worn sunglasses for a while, then took them off.
since its ‘white light’ is basically just blue and yellow, no red and no continuous spectrum?
There is indeed red in a high quality LED. I like this colorized spectral power graph as you can better visualize what the component parts, like the cyan, greens, reds, and so on, of nearly “ideal” white light.
The reason why florescents have such poor color rendering and color qualities is their spectral power. They have an in-ordinate amount of green light, along with allot of yellow in this case, and almost no red and cyan. Compare the spectrum of this 3000K fluorescent to the same 3000K high- CRILED at the top to see what I mean. You see all the chunks missing?
—i see how led is different from fluourescent, but i am confused
are you saying there are red phosphors in LEDs?
i thought it was just blue from the led, and yellow from the phosphor..
and somehow the blue+yellow appeared white due to some eye trick
wle
Fluorescent does exist in 90 CRI form factors typically used in high quality indoor lighting, but even that has too little red and too much green.
—
"You never have the wind with you - it's either against you,or you're having a good day." Daniel Behrman, "The Man Who Loved Bicycles". It never gets easy, you just go faster. -Greg Lemond. ,ø¤º°`°º¤ø¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø¸
Your eyes take at least 45 minutes to adapt. What is the color temperature of your indoor lighting? Are you looking at 3000k daytime, under 5000k ceiling lighting, or WW ceiling lighting?
wle, to add onto this, are you looking at a computer/smartphone/tablet/TV without blue blocking filters as well? Do you have an LED street light or high powered security light outside any of your windows?
Also, I don’t know if you’re using fluorescent, but most household LED products are at least one nominal CCT higher then advertised. So verifying that those LEDs are 3500K and not 3800K, would be helpful but not likely possible in determining what light is actually around you. That verification can only be done with a pricey spectrometer, unfortunately.
i don’t know really
i don;t really expect colors to look right at night anyway, so if it is a little off, i don;t get alarmed at it
also around the house, there are many light sources
warm leds
daylight leds
some cfl
led tv
phone
computer screen
phone
so asking what light source i use in addition to the flashlight, and then requiring 45 minutes to get used to each one, or is there a streetlight out the window, or is the moon full, doesn;t really make sense
wle
—
"You never have the wind with you - it's either against you,or you're having a good day." Daniel Behrman, "The Man Who Loved Bicycles". It never gets easy, you just go faster. -Greg Lemond. ,ø¤º°`°º¤ø¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø¸
The YAG phosphors do indeed push red and deep red to. That’s where their efficiency drops off. The low color rendering LEDs have little red light, but are a bit more efficient. The high color accuracy lights, preferred around these parts, push more red/cyan.
The reason I asked about the phones, smart devices, TVs, and such is that their LED back panels are typically color calibrated for daytime use, and have color temperatures routinely near 6000K. Running F.Lux, or some other blue reducing software, removes the blue and shifts the screen to a warmer color. Looking at a bright 6000K LED screen can skew your adaptation to very blue light sources and make lights like 3000K appear more yellow then what they really are. The “daylight” LED with its 5000K color temperature, as well, will skew things if used allot at night like on a table lamp nearby for reading.
Quote:
i don;t really expect colors to look right at night anyway, so if it is a little off, i don;t get alarmed at it
Sounds like you need some high CRI lighting, minimum 90 CRI preferably 95 CRI. Your state does not, unfortunately, have the same Title 24 law the California does that mandates a minimum of 90 CRI for all LED replacement lamps. This law was put in place because of how poorly 80 CRICFLs did. They distorted colors and gained a bad reputation. Title 24 was put in place to make peoples’ experiences with LED more positive by pushing industry towards high quality light.
I have modded a lantern with 2000K LEDs, its basically a “Kerosene lamp yellow flame on low” tint. A very, very warm yellowish glow, but i like it for night lights & moon light modes. I bought a lot of 2000K flame-yellow cheap LEDs from Ebay for that purpose, (the 1W Luxeon bead-type LEDs.
which lantern did you end up modding? that sounds quite interesting!
Has anyone took any measurements of the Luminus Cube. They sound very interesting.
I would like to but they are only from sellers that ask high shipping costs to the EU. I wait until I have a nice list with other leds too before I order them.
Has anyone took any measurements of the Luminus Cube. They sound very interesting.
I would like to but they are only from sellers that ask high shipping costs to the EU. I wait until I have a nice list with other leds too before I order them.
Has anyone took any measurements of the Luminus Cube. They sound very interesting.
I would like to but they are only from sellers that ask high shipping costs to the EU. I wait until I have a nice list with other leds too before I order them.
Looking forward to your test!
haha i didn’t understand your question.. obviously not physical measurements
Thanks for posting that. Disappointed that R9 is not 90+ like the E21A 2000k. Wonder what the DUV and Rg is.
I’m pretty sure the E21A at 2000K R9 is at around 50. the variant that Virence sells is 9050. most of the other E21a he sells is 9080 except the 2000K and 2200K
Maukka got R9 of 89 at 1000ma but got R9 of 98 at 100ma. So at lower output, R9 is higher. I haven’t tested the low output because too lazy to close the shades to test but I’m sure it will be the same. I love this emitter for late night use especially because how little blue wavelength it emits. https://imgur.com/a/xP55G
Thanks for posting that. Disappointed that R9 is not 90+ like the E21A 2000k. Wonder what the DUV and Rg is.
Thus far I have been too cheap to purchase CT&A. I can take a DUV with another program. By the way the test is at 350mA across 12 emitters. These Xnova cubes are not high power LEDs. They spec even less than the optisolis for drive current. Far from E21A output.
The 1800k Xnova is also unique as it will make the 2000k E21A look white. 1800k starts to cross into lighting that looks yellow.
1800k xnova on the left and E21A on the right
Maukka got R9 of 89 at 1000ma but got R9 of 98 at 100ma. So at lower output, R9 is higher. I haven’t tested the low output because too lazy to close the shades to test but I’m sure it will be the same. I love this emitter for late night use especially because how little blue wavelength it emits.
https://imgur.com/a/xP55G
yes to low blue wavelength at night! Are there any other good options for mcpcb that can run the e21a other than the Virence mcpcb?
Keep in mind positive duv emitters when placed next to negative duv emitters of the same color temperature will make the negative duv emitters look white. My HI CRILED strip with very negative DUV looks like NW when placed next to my 60 CRI very positive DUV led strip. Both measured 3000k but the very negative duv led strip looks 1000k cooler.
Maukka got R9 of 89 at 1000ma but got R9 of 98 at 100ma. So at lower output, R9 is higher. I haven’t tested the low output because too lazy to close the shades to test but I’m sure it will be the same. I love this emitter for late night use especially because how little blue wavelength it emits.
https://imgur.com/a/xP55G
yes to low blue wavelength at night! Are there any other good options for mcpcb that can run the e21a other than the Virence mcpcb?
I don’t think so. I buy all my E21A presoldered onto Virence boards. I’ve been modding a bunch of AAA lights with E21A and Optisolis using his 10mm boards. Personally I like the E21A much better than Optisolis.
the flame looks so good. time to replace all my LEDs with flame
Yes, the flame’s output is so natural looking. Unfortunately it’s not as easy to EDC a flamin’ torch (I mean, that long piece of wood sticking out of the pocket might be misinterpreted). Um, how much runtime can one get on a Zippo?
“The CRI is determined by the light source’s spectrum. An incandescent lamp has a continuous spectrum, a fluorescent lamp has a discrete line spectrum; the incandescent lamp has the higher CRI.”
so how can any led have decent CRI?
since its ‘white light’ is basically just blue and yellow, no red and no continuous spectrum?
i;m trying to learn here, not just being difficult..
wle
"You never have the wind with you - it's either against you, or you're having a good day."
Daniel Behrman, "The Man Who Loved Bicycles".
It never gets easy, you just go faster. -Greg Lemond.
,ø¤º°`°º¤ø¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø¸
Your eyes take at least 45 minutes to adapt. What is the color temperature of your indoor lighting? Are you looking at 3000k daytime, under 5000k ceiling lighting, or WW ceiling lighting?
warmish leds is mostly the interior lighting
though i have cooler ones in the kitchen, maybe 3500k
wle
"You never have the wind with you - it's either against you, or you're having a good day."
Daniel Behrman, "The Man Who Loved Bicycles".
It never gets easy, you just go faster. -Greg Lemond.
,ø¤º°`°º¤ø¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø¸
wle, to add onto this, are you looking at a computer/smartphone/tablet/TV without blue blocking filters as well? Do you have an LED street light or high powered security light outside any of your windows?
Also, I don’t know if you’re using fluorescent, but most household LED products are at least one nominal CCT higher then advertised. So verifying that those LEDs are 3500K and not 3800K, would be helpful but not likely possible in determining what light is actually around you. That verification can only be done with a pricey spectrometer, unfortunately.
Nope, see here the spectral power distribution of the Nichia 219B in the FW3A (red line compared to the black line which is the reference light source), it is not just made out of blue and yellow wavelengths.
Maybe this will help you to understand a few more notions : https://www.flexfireleds.com/what-is-tm-30-15-and-cri-and-cqs
See also this Maukka’s test here, for the Nichia Optisolis 5000K for example.
On the middle upper graph, see how the optisolis 5000K (in red) is close to the reference light’s CQS, hence its excellent CRI ratings.
There is indeed red in a high quality LED. I like this colorized spectral power graph as you can better visualize what the component parts, like the cyan, greens, reds, and so on, of nearly “ideal” white light.
The reason why florescents have such poor color rendering and color qualities is their spectral power. They have an in-ordinate amount of green light, along with allot of yellow in this case, and almost no red and cyan. Compare the spectrum of this 3000K fluorescent to the same 3000K high- CRI LED at the top to see what I mean. You see all the chunks missing?
Fluorescent does exist in 90 CRI form factors typically used in high quality indoor lighting, but even that has too little red and too much green.
The “what we see” representations are a bit off, I think. With the 3000K light the red color of the ball and other reddish things will stand out more brightly even if the eyes have had time to adjust, in my experience. But otherwise the principle holds true. Just think of any time you’ve worn sunglasses for a while, then took them off.
"You never have the wind with you - it's either against you, or you're having a good day."
Daniel Behrman, "The Man Who Loved Bicycles".
It never gets easy, you just go faster. -Greg Lemond.
,ø¤º°`°º¤ø¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø¸
i don’t know really
i don;t really expect colors to look right at night anyway, so if it is a little off, i don;t get alarmed at it
also around the house, there are many light sources
warm leds
daylight leds
some cfl
led tv
phone
computer screen
phone
so asking what light source i use in addition to the flashlight, and then requiring 45 minutes to get used to each one, or is there a streetlight out the window, or is the moon full, doesn;t really make sense
wle
"You never have the wind with you - it's either against you, or you're having a good day."
Daniel Behrman, "The Man Who Loved Bicycles".
It never gets easy, you just go faster. -Greg Lemond.
,ø¤º°`°º¤ø¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø¸
The YAG phosphors do indeed push red and deep red to. That’s where their efficiency drops off. The low color rendering LEDs have little red light, but are a bit more efficient. The high color accuracy lights, preferred around these parts, push more red/cyan.
The reason I asked about the phones, smart devices, TVs, and such is that their LED back panels are typically color calibrated for daytime use, and have color temperatures routinely near 6000K. Running F.Lux, or some other blue reducing software, removes the blue and shifts the screen to a warmer color. Looking at a bright 6000K LED screen can skew your adaptation to very blue light sources and make lights like 3000K appear more yellow then what they really are. The “daylight” LED with its 5000K color temperature, as well, will skew things if used allot at night like on a table lamp nearby for reading.
Sounds like you need some high CRI lighting, minimum 90 CRI preferably 95 CRI. Your state does not, unfortunately, have the same Title 24 law the California does that mandates a minimum of 90 CRI for all LED replacement lamps. This law was put in place because of how poorly 80 CRI CFLs did. They distorted colors and gained a bad reputation. Title 24 was put in place to make peoples’ experiences with LED more positive by pushing industry towards high quality light.
Has anyone took any measurements of the Luminus Cube. They sound very interesting.
https://download.luminus.com/datasheets/Luminus_MP1616_1103_Datasheet.pdf
has a 1.6 × 1.6mm footprint, see page 10
they do sound interesting. been reading everything i can get to figure out how to get one to work.
which lantern did you end up modding? that sounds quite interesting!
I would like to but they are only from sellers that ask high shipping costs to the EU. I wait until I have a nice list with other leds too before I order them.
link to djozz tests
Looking forward to your test!
haha i didn’t understand your question.. obviously not physical measurements
Thanks for posting that. Disappointed that R9 is not 90+ like the E21A 2000k. Wonder what the DUV and Rg is.
I’m pretty sure the E21A at 2000K R9 is at around 50. the variant that Virence sells is 9050. most of the other E21a he sells is 9080 except the 2000K and 2200K
http://www.nichia.co.jp/specification/products/led_spec/NVSLE21AT-E(3825J)R70%20R8000%20R9050%20R9080.pdf
I measured the E21A 2000k 9050 in Tiara Pro:
CCT: 2016K
DUV: -0.0003
R9: 89.2
Rg: 101
Rf: 94
Maukka’s measurements were very similar
wow, that’s pretty awesome. good to know! i think i want more e21a in 2000K now
Maukka got R9 of 89 at 1000ma but got R9 of 98 at 100ma. So at lower output, R9 is higher. I haven’t tested the low output because too lazy to close the shades to test but I’m sure it will be the same. I love this emitter for late night use especially because how little blue wavelength it emits.
https://imgur.com/a/xP55G
Thus far I have been too cheap to purchase CT&A. I can take a DUV with another program. By the way the test is at 350mA across 12 emitters. These Xnova cubes are not high power LEDs. They spec even less than the optisolis for drive current. Far from E21A output.
The 1800k Xnova is also unique as it will make the 2000k E21A look white. 1800k starts to cross into lighting that looks yellow.
1800k xnova on the left and E21A on the right
Black Flat Yellow not white flat amber
black flat yellow
xnova
flame
yes to low blue wavelength at night! Are there any other good options for mcpcb that can run the e21a other than the Virence mcpcb?
the flame looks so good. time to replace all my LEDs with flame
Keep in mind positive duv emitters when placed next to negative duv emitters of the same color temperature will make the negative duv emitters look white. My HI CRI LED strip with very negative DUV looks like NW when placed next to my 60 CRI very positive DUV led strip. Both measured 3000k but the very negative duv led strip looks 1000k cooler.
I don’t think so. I buy all my E21A presoldered onto Virence boards. I’ve been modding a bunch of AAA lights with E21A and Optisolis using his 10mm boards. Personally I like the E21A much better than Optisolis.
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