[MOD] RRT01 (slo-mo progression)

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clemence
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I predict synthetic diamond is the future for extreme high power. DCPCB has been used in military and space equipment, mainly for laser and CPU. The cost of synthetic diamond keeps dropping as the technology advanced.
This far, the nearest concept to DCPCB at mass production rate is AlN direct metallisation copper board.
Soon there will be copper based nano ceramic insulated MCPCB very similar to my previous board. The factory introduced it to me but the whooping $10.000 commitment cost held me back from even read the spec any further.

[Clemence]

clemence
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More pics added in OP

djozz
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Cool testing Clemence!

Apart from the nice graphs, I think it is nice to know that the 18350 Vapcell has a functional thermal fuse.

SKV89
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Thanks for the tests Clemence! Very useful.

Are you planning to change the driver too to add LVP? That seems like a tough job.

Tixx
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I would do aluminum for sure on mine. These are heavy lights, I agree. To lessen that weight would be great

clemence
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SKV89 wrote:
Thanks for the tests Clemence! Very useful.

Are you planning to change the driver too to add LVP? That seems like a tough job.

I really want to if I have the skill. Need more time to learn building my own driver. I have long overdue programming lesson to begin with. As for now, simple mechanical fix to make it accept protected 18350 is the easiest solution

I won’t worry about the overheating problem since I will use heavier resistor to limit the output to about 300lm ish

[Clemence]

Tixx
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Definitely let me know on the Aluminum version. May need a few.

iamlucky13
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SKV89 wrote:
Thanks for the tests Clemence! Very useful.

Are you planning to change the driver too to add LVP? That seems like a tough job.

Far better would be for Jetbeam to update their circa-2012 driver design. They should be able to not only add at least a thermal stepdown and low voltage protection, but also achieve better efficiency and better regulation.

Although the new design looks a little bit nicer aesthetically than the old one, I’m unclear what functional improvements were made relative to the old version.

However, if you want a rotary and an HDS is out of the budget, this is apparently the best game in town despite the shortcomings. I’m looking forward to seeing what Clemence is able to come up with for a mod kit.

SKV89
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clemence wrote:
SKV89 wrote:
Thanks for the tests Clemence! Very useful.

Are you planning to change the driver too to add LVP? That seems like a tough job.

I really want to if I have the skill. Need more time to learn building my own driver. I have long overdue programming lesson to begin with. As for now, simple mechanical fix to make it accept protected 18350 is the easiest solution

I won’t worry about the overheating problem since I will use heavier resistor to limit the output to about 300lm ish

[Clemence]

I haven’t seen any good protected 18350. I bought a bunch of the Aspire 18350 that is known to be the highest capacity 18350 in existence and some of the older Vapcell 18350 before the supplier changed their formula to a lesser capacity. Unfortunately there are no protected versions of those cells.

Hmmm limiting it to 300 lumens is kinda low. Your graph shows it starts at about 780 lumens. But not sure what else can be done.

I can’t believe Jetbeam didn’t implement any thermal step down or LVP for a light of this price.

Geuzzz
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300 lumens might be a bit low but the 400-500? lumens of my triple old style rrt-01 is more than sufficient for most tasks.

Keeppower and Eagtac have high capacity protected 18350s, but I haven’t tried them yet.

djozz
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My experience is that 600lm for a S2+ is about the max it can sustain but it gets bloody hot already. The RRT-01 is a bit smaller and I would not want it bleeding hot, so 300lm sounds pretty sane. Maybe 400 because we are BLF? Big Smile

clemence
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Ehmm….sorry for the confusion. I haven’t explain how I came up with 300lm number.

My calculation with small lights like RRT01, 5 LED wattage is already too much for sustainable bare skin handheld. And we also have to take driver heat into play.

  • With 4x R9080 E17A in parallel at 1A (250ma/LED), we get 330lm (300 OTF lumens) at only 2,8 watt. LED efficiency at 117lm/watt
  • With 4x R70 E17A in parallel at 1A (250mA/LED) ,we get 450 lm (405lm OTF) at 2,8 watt. LED efficiency at 161lm/watt

For pocket thrower application dedomed 119D/219D is the best choice. The beam will be tighter than an XPL-HI

  • With 1x R70 119D/219D at 1A, we get 415lm (373 OTF lumens) at 2,9 watt. LED efficiency at 143lm/watt

Those based on plain clear good TIR optic with 88 – 90% efficiency

[Clemence]

jon_slider
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I vote aluminium pill
the weight reduction is a priority for me
the thermal transfer is 2x better than brass

I agree with a 300 lumen limit, for High CRI, to prevent melted LiIon battery wrappers.
I completely agree with the priority of the light NEVER getting too hot to touch.

In a safety for Granny scenario,
IF she tailstands the light on maximum using LiIon, I want her NOT to burn her hands when she touches it. I also want the light to shut itself off without overdischarging when she falls asleep.

or

both of those problems are solved by only giving her CR123 batteries.. NOT LiIon, LOL

clemence
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OK, 100pcs aluminum pills ordered. The material will be a mix of 2024 or 6061 depending on the availability. I bought aircraft scrap material from local aircraft factory. 3pcs test sample should be ready in a week or so. Although they’re scrap material, at least they’re truly “aircraft grade” aluminum Silly

[Clemence]

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djozz
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Those maybe the only actual aircraft grade aluminium pills in the flashlight industry Party

clemence
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First 3pcs of aluminum pills. No wire holes nor screw threads machined. This will make modification easier to fit different MCPCB styles

[Clemence]

clemence
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A successful weight loss program:

Stock brass pill = 17,08gr
New redesigned 2024 pill = 7,22gr

[Clemence]

SKV89
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Good job! Any idea why they use brass for stock pill when it is heavier, less thermal conductivity, and more expensive than aluminum?

shirnask
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I’m in for three

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In for 3!

WTB Titanium 4sevens 2xAA tube

contactcr
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I’m still interested as well. Looking forward to what TIR angles work with your quadtrix too.

Did you make a special board or are you filing down a bigger one?

clemence
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contactcr wrote:
I’m still interested as well. Looking forward to what TIR angles work with your quadtrix too.

Did you make a special board or are you filing down a bigger one?

Special board with quadtrix E17A

[Clemence]

clemence
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UPDATE 190802:

I hate RRT01 driver, it creates almost as much heat as the LED. Tried to lower the max current by changing the sense resistor from 0,05 Ohm to 0,18 Ohm. I wanted to make it safe for a single E21A and get slightly more regulation, which wasn’t the case. Although now the output current is reduced to “ single E21A safe” at 2,55A/4,2V, the current still going up and down depending the the input voltage.

This is weird because the driver doesn’t look like a linear driver but behaves like one. Later Zak told me that this is actually a boost driver. OMD! I completely forgot this light designed for CR123 (3V). Now that explains everything. Any boost driver with input voltage higher than the LED output will behave like a direct drive or to be exact a more like a constant power driver. Only after the battery voltage is lower than the LED then the driver can maintain regulation. Big thanks Zak!
With 3V input voltage the light went into full regulation down to 1,4V.

Tried the driver with all 6V LEDs I have laying around: XHP50, 144AM, GRV3, and 6V quadtrix E21A. Nothing works since the driver can only pump up to 4,8V output from 1,4 – 4,2V input.
So, to make the light and driver works with single Li-Ion a new driver is needed. But making a new driver beats the whole idea of modification, looks like I’m almost creating a new flashlight at this point. Any idea guys?

[Clemence]

contactcr
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Lifepo4/RCR123A 3.0V garbage rechargeable?

Link: http://budgetlightforum.com/node/66947

iamlucky13
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clemence wrote:

So, to make the light and driver works with single Li-Ion a new driver is needed. But making a new driver beats the whole idea of modification, looks like I’m almost creating a new flashlight at this point. Any idea guys?

[Clemence]

It would work with a quadtrix, wouldn’t it? A good regulated driver would be preferable, but it’s not what is easily available.

It’s rather disappointing to hear that Jetbeam markets such an appealing light concept with sub-par driver.

Depending what the output from the rotary sensor is, perhaps it is possible to use that sensor as an input for an ATtiny series chip, which could then power the LED’s with 7135 regulators. That doesn’t seem like it should be necessary, though.

jon_slider
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Let me just say, that I have known all along that my RRT-01 is not regulated, and I still love it anyway.

I dont think it is necessary to abandon the Clemence-01 simply because of discovering what has been true all along.

the lights drift, within a range that represents no more than one hop on the HDS dial, and generally much less. the HDS dial hops 50% for each of 24 steps through its range.

I prefer the RRT-01, in fact I VASTLY prefer the RRT-01, and that is after becoming fully profficient in HDS speak and HDS programming.. Im not just making this stuff up as I go along.

I made a conscious, fully informed decision to embrace the RRT-01, despite its magnetic drift characteristics..

some of you may recall that in the past I greatly resisted accepting the unregulated output, but in my real world use, when the light drifts, if I notice, I just adjust the dial again.

its not as big a deal in actual use as it seems to some of us who are focused on the minutiae and numbers that describe a flashlight feature set.

flashlights are not precision instruments. Not even an HDS runs fully regulated. They hunt up and down all the time within what for most people is a not noticeable range of 2%. Plus they use PWM on low modes, that some people can actually see.

The constant current flicker rate of the RRT-01 is less noticeable, with the naked eye than an HDS.

all that to say, stay the course, do not abandon ship. Trim the Sails, full speed ahead.

if you build it they will come
a Clemence-01 is still a class act, no matter what the reality of the RRT-01 driver entails.

Its a Great UI! Go for It!

Lexel
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contactcr wrote:
Lifepo4/RCR123A 3.0V garbage rechargeable?

Link: http://budgetlightforum.com/node/66947

this is no real LifePo4 it’s a normal 3.7V with a step down converter, not nearly capable of driving any current above 1A with a reasonable efficiency

id30209
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I agree 100% with jon ^^^^
But honestly i just need those alu centerbody sections for easy MCPCB swap with standard size. Only that would be great progress.

WTB Titanium 4sevens 2xAA tube

jon_slider
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id30209 wrote:
I agree 100% with jon ^^^^
But honestly i just need those alu centerbody sections for easy MCPCB swap with standard size. Only that would be great progress.

I like it when people agree with me, thanks!:-)

the size of the MCPCB that fits in an RRT-01 is also being discussed here:
http://budgetlightforum.com/node/68253
you may find it informative

Not sure what you mean by “standard size”
to the best of my understanding the RRT-01 needs an MCPCB of 12mm, but Im not sure.. Im not well versed in those details, yet

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