cabfrank wrote:

Does anyone remember the good ol’ days, when all we worried about was a bunny on our switch cap?

Firelight2 wrote:

cabfrank wrote:

Two years in the making and less than two months before the changes start. Hmm.

To be fair, Lumintop delivered what was requested for the Group Buy.

Any changes they make after the group buy is done is up to them.

And yeah, after the Group Buy is over….. they are free to change, cheapen, or screw it up any way they desire; as stupid & sad as that may be. .

“Screw it up…stupid & sad…”

Yep.

I guess Lumintop quickly forgot how much effort and development was put in to this project, at no cost to them.

And, if CRX says something is harder to fix, it surely doesn’t bode well for most of the rest of us.

Yeah.

The SST-20 was part of the group buy.

I guess I should cancel my order. I mean, I’m just a filthy muggle and everything. I have one decent SK-68 clone which I ran with for like a year, gave no kind of crap about how I treated it, dropped it, put sharp objects in my pocket at the same time, and it only has one scratch on its plastic lens. But the concept of letting a bunch of people review something and then make unannounced detrimental changes no matter how slight is a bad thing.

Yeah this is a major bummer. I’ve got a small stockpile of Carclo optics so I was looking forward to easy swap outs for playing with beam patterns but this completely changes that if this change is permanent.

If it is I’ll still probably get the sapphire lens but that’s far from ideal.

Yep.

Not only is an all plastic optic+lens combo much more scratch prone, but the problem with the sapphire optic is that it’s less optically efficient than glass ones.

While an AR glass lens might achieve 98-99%+ optical efficiency, a sapphire one might only get 90-92%.

So, if we take the 2800 lumens number:

2800/0,98 = 2855 lumens
2855*0,9 = 2570 lumens

That’s quite the lumen loss.

If there is absolutely nothing that Neal can do for all the (pre)orders already being made for the copper version, I'll swap all the 'cheap crap' out my FW3C version and replace it with the original pieces from my FW3A version. Then I'll have the 'downgraded' FW3A as my go to EDC 'beater flashlight' and the 'upgraded' FW3C for collecting purposes, problem solved

Although I truly hope that Neal can arrange with Lumintop that for everybody who already made a (pre)order for the copper version, it will effectively ship with the Carlo Optics and the AR coated glass lens, as it was stated on his website when we where making the (pre)order ... And to be honest, a shiny special copper version with 'cheaper' optics and plastic lens will not fit right, especially considering the higher price tag it comes with

- SAM -

Speaking of lumen loss, the lumen rating should be shown at checkout where one selects the emitter. If the 219C is 2600 lumens and the Cree 3D is 3300 lumens, that’s a bit of a difference in lumens, as well.

I remember when I first got into photography. Everyone was going apeshit for putting a UV filter over their lens. “It’s a $2000 lens, you should protect it.” But even the really, really nice UV filters were noticeable. I always, on telephoto lenses, just used a hood and no filter.

But I went ahead and requested the order canceled. I was going to upgrade to the Cree but the fact is I don’t really need this light. If there’s any reason it’s not as good as what other people have gotten I just don’t even want it at all, even if I wouldn’t care about the difference.

trakcon wrote:

djozz wrote:

…FW3A with the rather exotic SST-20 led in FA3 tint, and Sapphire lens…

djozz, have you been happy with the sapphire lens in your FW3A? Any issues with it being too fragile or reduced transmittance?

I do not really understand the bad reputation of sapphire. My daily watch has a sapphire lens for 7 years now, and it is a common product for watches. It is larger and more exposed than the FW3A lens and I sometimes hit hard objects with the watch with no problem. And I like that it does not show one single scratch after all these years.

Until we start doing FW3A infrared mods. Come on Blue!

Yeah, sorry contactcr.

I completely forgot that the future of lights are main white LEPs along with infrared aux LEDs.

I realize that Neal is put in a bad position, but I feel that the switch in spec is not worth it for me. I have a handful of different Carcio optics but I understand none will work without the glass lens. That’s not worth it for me and I can’t be bothered to source my own.

I have emailed Neal about my wish to cancel the order if it comes with the new optic without AR glass lens. Hopefully he will respond soon with news that the most recent FW3A orders will come with the Carcio/AR glass or new optic.

While I would prefer the glass lens+carclo optic combo, I’ll happily order even with the new optic.

Fortunately, I already have a supply of Carclo 10507 optics and compatible AR-coated glass lenses from flashlightlens.com.

Nothing from flashlightlens.com looks like a perfect fit. Close, yes, but the measurements I’ve seen reported for the FW3A are 23×1.5mm. It will work, but I’m not sure the waterproofing will be perfect.

Er, not seeing 23×1.5 on flashlightlens?

The time has come to resign a FW3A….
I was thinking of buying one SST-20 and one LH351D…
One FW3C that I already had in the cart…

I also think that for the next BLF project you should look for another manufacturer. A change of specifications on the fly and without notice… :-/

Firelight2 wrote:

To be fair, Lumintop delivered what was requested for the Group Buy.

Any changes they make after the group buy is done is up to them.

None of the SST-20 group buy lights have shipped yet.

It would be nice if Neal could provide a date when these changes started and if it actually applies to orders made before the changes were known. I dont think it should be “okay” for them to make changes to what we ordered.

Coscar wrote:

It would be nice if Neal could provide a date when these changes started and if it actually applies to orders made before the changes were known. I dont think it should be “okay” for them to make changes to what we ordered.

Agreed. All orders placed before Lumintop changed the decscription on the order page to remove glass lens really ought to ship with the glass lens plus Carclo optic. Hopefully this change will only apply to orders after Lumintop announced the change.

Firelight2 wrote:

Coscar wrote:

It would be nice if Neal could provide a date when these changes started and if it actually applies to orders made before the changes were known. I dont think it should be “okay” for them to make changes to what we ordered.

Agreed. All orders placed before Lumintop changed the decscription on the order page to remove glass lens really ought to ship with the glass lens plus Carclo optic. Hopefully this change will only apply to orders after Lumintop announced the change.

I imagine Neal is as surprised & disgusted by this change Lumintop decided upon as most of us are.

I feel bad for Neal that Lumintop placed him in the lurch like this. It sux.

BlueSwordM wrote:

Yep.

Not only is an all plastic optic+lens combo much more scratch prone, but the problem with the sapphire optic is that it’s less optically efficient than glass ones.

While an AR glass lens might achieve 98-99%+ optical efficiency, a sapphire one might only get 90-92%.

That’s quite the lumen loss.

Firelight2 wrote:

While I would prefer the glass lens+carclo optic combo, I’ll happily order even with the new optic.
Fortunately, I already have a supply of Carclo 10507 optics and compatible AR-coated glass lenses from flashlightlens.com.

I wasn't so sure this thread would someday hit 15,000 posts...

But with self-inflicted controversies, anything is possible!

 You're "only" 11971. I doubt it will reach that number. Did you mean 10k?

No, with controversies like this, I believe 15k posts will be inevitable.

Agreed…. only 3026 to go also.

“Lens Gate” will be good for many, many extra posts. .

As will ‘Color Gate’, ‘Material Gate’, and any other pending ‘Gate’ that may arise.

 And if we continue to clutter it

But looks like the coupon is gone, maybe lumintop just wanted to make the agreed amount of the flashlights for the price? I hope that I can get a rosy 219c instead of the SST20. Seems like they at least choose good bins.

teacher wrote:

Agreed…. only 3026 to go also.

“Lens Gate” will be good for many, many extra posts. .

As will ‘Color Gate’, ‘Material Gate’, and any other pending ‘Gate’ that may arise.

I look forward to Gate Gate when they switch to a knockoff FET

contactcr wrote:

teacher wrote:

Agreed…. only 3026 to go also.

“Lens Gate” will be good for many, many extra posts. .

As will ‘Color Gate’, ‘Material Gate’, and any other pending ‘Gate’ that may arise.

I look forward to Gate Gate when they switch to a knockoff FET

contactcr wrote:

teacher wrote:

Agreed…. only 3026 to go also.

“Lens Gate” will be good for many, many extra posts. .

As will ‘Color Gate’, ‘Material Gate’, and any other pending ‘Gate’ that may arise.

I look forward to Gate Gate when they switch to a knockoff FET

Will that be before or after ditching 18650 support in favor of this tech…
https://www.hydralight.com/

…leading to Watergate.