Came here to post this.
the flawed logic is “armed person”.
The laws are clear that you can use DPF to defend against someone using or threatening to use DPF against you. And even that can be hairy. Google Richard DiGuglielmo. You can still end up in prison.
All dogs have teeth. That alone does not constitute justification. My dog will come right at you, jump up and lick your face. While that might well serve as justification, it is weak. The point being, no one can ever know the intentions of a dog, unlike humans.
If a dog bites your leg, and you put it down, well there it is. automagic justification.
In civilized society, I can agree with you. However, there is a element of the population can can be cordially discussing your next poker night while jamming a knife between your ribs. Predators will be predators, and ambush hunting is a time honored hunting method no matter the number of legs the predator has.
Lets step outside the arguments of what’s legal, and what’s proper justification. The point trying to be made here is that worst case, bandaged bite marks and scars are excellent evidence. They can convince the cops to not treat you like a perp, the prosecutors to think of you as a victim, and if it gets that far, the jury to understand that no amount of calm words or bravely running away could have saved you from the situation.
It’s not a question of if you’re right. It’s a question of convincing the person on your jury who wrote Dear Abby asking why hunters kill animals instead of going to the store where meat is made and no animals are hurt.
Unfortunately, we live in a society where the courts are as corrupt as the day is long, conviction/acquittal is politically (or financially) decided, you’re essentially guilty until proven innocent (traffic court, anyone?), and you pretty much need to record with a camera every aspect of your daily life to “prove” your innocence in case it’s ever brought into question.
+10000000000000000000000000
The issue I raise is that when you shoot the dog some will probably have it on video.
If you have some injury it negates the person who says “That dog was not going to bite. He was just warning you or greeting you”.
You're attempting a technical solution to a social problem. In the long term, the correct answer is "let the authorities do it". Call 911 or Animal Control if you fear an attack is imminent. Document, including video if possible, threatening encounters and report them using the non-emergency number to the police, sheriff, or animal control.
In the short term, cyclists use pepper spray, a full water bottle, or a U-lock. We have the advantage of being able to leave the area quickly. While a dog can outrun most cyclists, the encounters are usually territorial. When you leave the dog's turf, it's interest drops sharply.
Regardless of who's right, learn how to "minimize the chances" of an encounter gone wrong.
I like the bit about, if the dog bites your arm, shove it harder into the dog’s mouth (vs trying to pull it out) so he can’t breathe. I recall back when I was a kid someone one telling me that when he was attacked by a dog, the dog bit his fist as he tried punching the dog away, and he then literally tried to shove his fist and forearm down the dog’s throat. Ouch.
I tried all manner of methods to get this enraged, attacking dog to stop. This took a while to exhaust my options. Luckily for me it was “only” a 40 pound pit bull. A bigger animal may have gotten the best of me by the time I decided to pull out my pocket knife and end it. I can verify that that method only works while it is being applied. Let go and said dog resumes attack, even more enraged. Permanent, incapacitation force is the only thing that stops an enraged dog.
The crazy thing is, I dont even know why the dog flipped out on me other than for some territorial reason.
As a side note, this dog also went after my mom on a previous occasion. In that instance, I was able to grab the dog before it did any damage and throw it in my open pickup cab and slam the door closed. It stayed in there a few hours…and was fine after my mom left the premises.
Like decades ago, I think it was my dog on a leash and not one of the cats roaming around, but I was outside and 2 Dobermans from across the street (didn’t know that at the time) quietly came running over and only growling at the last second. Around the immediate area I always carried a Fairbairn-Sykes because we had a problem with wild-dog packs roaming around. I was just about ready to draw and quietly put Mr Pointy to use when the owner came running over, “Get over here!”, and making a distracting ruckus with loud whistles, and the dogs backed off. Dog or cat, I wasn’t gonna let one of mine end up as lunch or a chew-toy. Thankfully it never came to that.
Interesting how all the people who actually encounter aggressive dogs on a regular basis for their jobs seem to have no trouble de-escalating situations without firearms. It is incomprehensible to me as a Canadian that someone would have not one, but two encounters where they felt the need to shoot a pet dog. Maybe up north where there are literal feral dogs roaming, but not in a residential area.
Holy cow that is a ginormous cat! I’d like to see pictures too. :laughing:
Here’s a 38lb cat I found on youtube: fat cat!
the wonderful lady next door keep her dog outside ina small crate covered with heavy blanket or she keeps it tied up on 5 foot or so chain
Once you see what a dog can do to someone in only a second or two you might change that view. I don’t want to be maimed for the rest of my life because some turd couldn’t be bothered to put their dog on a cable.
Friend of mine almost got her face ripped off by a beagle(!). Extensive surgery to have her lips sewn back into place.
You’d be surprised the kind of damage even little beasties can do in just seconds.
I know exactly what dogs are capable of doing. I’ve owned German Shepherds my entire life. I have dog friends involved in bite work and professional trainer friends who work with severe aggression cases and personally own several dogs who would be euthanized if they hadn’t taken them in. Dogs who are more wild animal than anything else. Every trainer I know has been bitten, some quite badly. None of them would consider routinely carrying a firearm in case they needed to shoot a dog even if it were legal. And that’s people working with dogs that would literally rip your throat out in a heartbeat, not someone walking their own dog in a regular neighbourhood.
I guess I don’t see the argument unless they have some other solution to a dog attack?
There’s a fair bit of difference in the neighborhoods BLFers live in I’d imagine, and the person you’re referencing did say he has been walking/running quite a bit over a long period of time.
Butt you are trained and the other trainers are used to being in close proximity with aggressive dogs. I worked in a position that I had to enter yards with unknown dogs and on occasion had to defend myself with whatever was at hand. I was only bitten three times and always from a backbiter who sneaked up on me quietly and then ran off. Never by an aggressive dog who transmitted his intentions and there were a lot of them. I always was able to stand my ground and transmit that I was just as intent on leaving that area with my skin intact. Butt I’m over 6 feet and was pretty athletic at the time.
At my current age and sedentary computer habits I doubt I could muster the same imposing competent posture and react to their attack feints and circling tactics. Many people have never had to do that before and would assume that the dog was attacking from the first charge and panic which only encourages more aggression. I was entering the dog’s domain and was aware of the danger. People on the street should not have to be subjected to a dog attack or more likely a belligerent display of aggression by a loose dog. Report any such display of aggression to authorities. They should realize the danger and act to prevent an escalation of the situation. That is their job, not yours.
It’s not my job to cater to people who can’t control their dogs. Pet dog or not shouldn’t it be up to the owner to make sure that their dog is under control?
BurningPlayd0h is correct. I am active on dogsbite.org and other dog attack victim sites. Now I am commenting in 18650 Flashlight Reviews about how after more than five decades of life on the hostile surface of this planet, living with evil people, how I have successfully kept hostility and evil away from me, and, finally, the hostility of the surface of this planet has attacked me in the form of my neighbors Shepherd breeds ambush charge attacking me in the residential neighborhood, twice, when walking 210 miles per month for 40 months for 8,000 miles.
There is nothing to exaggerate or be delusional about when twice, in 8,000 pedestrian miles in 3.5 years, Shepherd breeds ultra short range ambush attacked me with one tenth of a second to spare to successfully stop the attack. The dogs were not going to stop just in time. I did not want to suffer bodily harm.
40 months, 210 miles per month, I have called 40 times to the police to report at large dog. 95% of them were not immediate injury threats. 5% percent were. One out of 20. Two out of forty.
30 feet per second. One second to defend myself. One tenth of a second to spare.
When a dog ambush charge attacks me, the last second belongs to me, and no one else. The last few feet are all mine. That time and distance do not belong to the repeated at large sometimes unpredictable pedestrian aggressive dog owner.
That last little bit of time and distance do not belong to the police.
That last little bit of time and distance do not belong to the prosecutor.
That last little bit of time and distance do not belong to the people who have not walked 8,000 miles in my shoes, who think that I should just wait until the last thirtieth of a second elapses, and then wait in the gutter of the street for someone to call an ambulance for me while my blood runs down the street.
I am not required by law to risk very certain immediate injury for an aggressive, snarling, growling dog that is ambush charge attacking me.
In a quick-moving situation, where a dog is charging and preparing to attack, a person has the right to use deadly force.
It is lawful for a person to take lethal action before it is too late to successfully repel an imminent attack threat of death or great bodily harm.
If a reasonable person has reasonable reason to feel immediate fear of body harm, the person has the right to armed self defense. It is not relevant what the pro-pedestrian hospitalization people feel. The law centers solely on what the dog charge attack victim had reason to feel. Twice, I was very, very afraid. Thank God I had one tenth of a second to spare to avoid hospitalization.
35,000 reconstructive surgeries per year in the US from severe dog mauling, because someone thought the dog was not really going to severly maul someone.
A million surgeries per year in the US from dog mauling, because someone thought the dog was not really going to maul someone.
Infants and young children are the largest portion of maulings, because someone thought the dog was not really going to maul the infant or the small child.
This topic is located in 18650 Flashlight Reviews. Here are mine, in chronological order:
1. Four-Sevens MMU-X3. Oct. 2014, 1,600 lumens, I purchased from Sears Marketplace/Overstock. I did well selecting my first real light, this permanently classic item will be forever beloved by flashoholics. This light boldly demarcates the division between lights that are smaller than it, and lights that are larger than it.
Nice beam profile, too. Not all throw, and not all flood. A nice, usefull combination of both. There is no way that I could have picked a better item at that time, five years ago.
2. Niwalker MM15. Nov. 2014, 5,233 lumens, purchased from the friendly folks at Going Gear. [B]Selbuilt[/B]s' review of this item had me utterly transfixed for weeks. I could not take another breath until I had it in my hands. No classic collection is complete without this ground-breaking hand-held floodlight.
3. Eagletac SX25L3 kit. Feb. 2015, 2,375 lumens. From GG. I got this because Selfbuilt always included it in his comparative tables in his reviews, and because of
its power/size ratio. I love its "gadgety" feel and I also love the Eagletac build style/quality.
4. Noctigon Meteor M43vn XP-L dd. June, 2015, Approx. 7,400/8,400 lumens. My first [B]Vinh54[/B] light. When it dawned on me that GG was not going to carry this instant permanent classic, I frantically searched for another supplier and found Vinh54. Oozing gob-loads of cachet, this light will forever have its place at the pinnacle of
true classics.
5. Thrunite TN36UTvn spec 1. Jan. 2016, 13,400 lumens. The ceiling bounce monster of its time. I edced it for a few months. That's how excited I was about it. My most
"beat up" light, from work horse use.
6. MM15 MBvn spec 1. Feb. 2016, 9,000 lumens. The must-have successor to the original ultra classic MM15.
7. Olight S2 Baton. Feb. 2016 from GG. ~1,000 lumens. This item goes with me whenever I have my keys on me, because they are what it is attached to. Much used,
never a bobble.
8. Acebeam EC50vn spec 1. May, 2016; 3100 lumens. The item for max power in its size in Spring 2016. A small beginning of my attraction to the ground-breaking line
up from Acebeam.
9. Eagletac MX25L4Cvn XPL pdt kit. July 2016, nice beam profile, provided by the four non-overlapping reflectors. A great looker, too.
10. Fenix TK75vnQ70. Aug. 2016, ~16,000 lumens. I used it every night for a few months, and I was thrilled by it every moment. Currently the oldest light in my "A" list use line-up.
11. Acebeam K70vn. Sept. 2016, 2,471 lumens. Autumnn 2016 is when I surprisingly became amazed at dedicated throwers. I bought it just to have such an item, and I instantly became thrilled at what the beam does.
12. Acebeam X65vn spec 1. Dec. 2016, 11,500 lumens. I became super excited as soon as its specs were released months before the light itself was released. This light
has the beam performance that I always wanted from other lights that just can not do what this can do.
13. TN42 vn spec 1. Feb. 2017, 2,400 lumens. The logical successor to the awesome K70.
14. P60vn Quad XP-L HD 2 cell host Cryos Cu head. March 2017, 4,300 lumens. My smallest edc light. 4,300 lumens from a light in its size class: Not bad at all.
15. Acebeam X65vn spec 1. March 2017, 11,200 lumens. Not being content with the first one that Vinh got, I needed another one of these superlative beam generators
for my other hand. If you want to feel what it's like to be at the outer limits of the hand held led universe, fire up one of these in each hand, and you
will feel that feeling.
16. Manker MK34vn spec 5. April 2017, 7,650 lumens. In its time, it was the item that had the perfect balance of max power for its size.
17. TM06Svn XHP50.2. May 25, 2017, 9,800 lumens, currently the item that is the perfect balance of max power for its size. Ultra limited edition,
only two will be made.
18. Acebeam X45vn XHP70.2. June 19, 2017, 25,000 lumens. I requested and received the KG Tuning specimen from Vinh. This item is much brighter that the Fenix TK75vnQ70.
19. Imalent R90TS. July 16, 2019. 36,000 lumens. 18x XHP35, 8x 21700 Samsung 40T, two fans,
I purchased the stock version Imalent R90TS from Vinh54. My main area of interest is beam profile/beam performance.
Beam profile similar to X65, but with a little more throw and some more beam width, and some more spill, with more lumens on the target at given range, but in the form of a larger hotspot. Ooops, this is not a 18650 light, so I posted in the wrong forum section. I blame my errror on stress due to barely surviving on the streets of Prescott, Az.
20. Acebeam K75Vn Spec 1. Sept. 3, 2019, 6,300 Lumens, 2,500 Meters, 1.57Mcd. The logical successor to the TN42. More throw, and more beam width than TN42. Vinh did no performance increase, but he tightened up some stuff.