Flashlights and Caves

Driver is by Dr. Jones and has 16kHz PWM on modes other than max just like his previous designs.

Thanks, 16khz is good.
I was surprised that low frequency PWM is used in such expensive professional light as El speleo or Scurion…


First models of El speleo used Nanjg 105c driver :(

I think it could be interesting to someone.
Hosts for caving headlamps ~150$/pcs (actual during week)

I’m interested. You selling these AEDe?

Answer in PM

more details? Looks interesting.

I used to do a lot of caving when I was younger. I started before the internet was a thing and incandescent was it. Back then, I always used Maglite. They did the job and held up to abuse really well. When LED lights first started showing up on the scene, it was headache city. They were usually brutal cool whites. I stuck with my incandescents until I eventually stopped caving due to some health issues. Now, technology has finally caught up. You can get some nice warmer LED lights and good color rendering, which can be a major plus for the beauty that can be found underground.

I did most of my caving with handheld lights and without what we’d consider proper safety gear by modern standards. If I was going to do it today, I’d look for a good warm headlamp with high CRI. As far as handheld lights, there aren’t really any special restrictions. You’ll want it to be sturdy enough to survive getting dropped or bumped. You’ll want basic water resistance. You’ll want decent battery life. For those who’ve spent extended time in low or no light, you know that starting in low is a must. (You don’t want a surprise blast of ultra-high lumens or tactical strobe down there.) Besides warmth and CRI, I’d avoid PWM if possible. Different people have different sensitivity levels but if you can find a light without it, that’s the best option.

PM send

I’ve been into a fair deal of caves and done my share of wet muddy potholing over the years. I think I still have a carbide light laying around somewhere. Now days I don’t consider myself a caver though. Lately I’ve more or less focused on abandoned mines when venturing underground. For that I don’t really need “caving” lights. For me a caving light is a light that can withstand mud, muck and waterfalls, and I tend to avoid that stuff now days, at least crawling through it (wading pants acceptable, full on caving suite for crawling and I’m not really interested anymore).

I modded a headlamp which I’ve been using, it stands up well to the conditions in mines, and as long as a cave is dry (or at least dry when you have to crawl and squeeze) it will work fine: Project Gemini: Yet another headlamp mod. Not a cheapo this time though.

However, I am somewhat interested in making my own caving headlight. Yuval was kind enough to share some details about his host, I’d like to give it a go but I have so many light projects waiting in line that I don’t know when I’ll take the time.

For handheld lights I really do not see any distinction between a flashlight and a caving light (diving light is a different matter but I’ve never done cave diving). I’ve found that many Convoy hosts, which are not rated in any way, really can stand to be dropped in water and stay there for a while without leaking. That’s all I need really. Then what kind of light I want depends on what I am doing: exploring, photographing, SRT, or just strolling around. My two main works horses are a ZYT08: What did you mod today? - #3884 by Mike_C and a SRK “soup can” light with triple MT-G2s. However, I haven’t put those two through waterfalls or anything like that though. As mentioned, that type of caving is something I’ve somewhat lost interest in. If I did decide to put myself through that again I’d pack my workhorses watertight and hand carry my Convoy S3 triple that can handle getting really wet.

My caving experience dates back to carbide lantern days. I’d like to know how you carry batteries and how many do you carry. It’s been a while since I did any caving but who knows, now that I have some reliable light sources.

In russian there is good term “spelestology/spelestologist”(from speleo and Stollen) for this type of activity to distinguish from “diggers” who visiting not abandoned underground. I actualy dont know if there any analogy of that terms in English language.)

As for me. I alweys carry 2 18650 powered headlamps (main and backup) so I surely can not change batteries during day. If I stay in cave more than a day , than I have UBC (“underground base camp” may be there is more sutable term in english… )with spare batteries in such bags

Usualy I spend 1pcs 18650 per 1-3 days.

But the 18650 batteries are not loose in your bag, correct? It is interesting to me that you use only one 18650/day. I guess the lights are usually used on a very low setting.

I carry 3 headlamps for caving (2 of which are mounted in the helmet and one as backup) as standard for our group. For multiday trips I carry my spare 18650’s on this mecarmy case inside a dry bag or darren drum in my tackle bag.

On shorter trips I just carry an extra flashlight or two (usually an extra thrower just in case) and carry the batteries in them. I also bring my d18 or modded Manker MK34 if photography is involved. I never owned a carbide lamp but I have a few buddies who still use them from time to time (just for kicks) and I do love the tint they produce. Hence, I prefer 3000K or below for my caving headlamp. Usually 1 18650 per day is enough (running at 100 lumens and below for a 6 hour trip) unless there’s photography involved or surveying and exploring really large caves. But of course we follow the rule of thirds so extra batteries are always a must.

Of course I can use some holder for batteries, but I prefer to put them in trash bag then in warm sock and then in sleeping bag:)
When you already carry ~25-30kg you try to take minimum additional things.

Power consumption depend on many factors. While ascend and descend(SRT) about 30lm is sufficient to light on hands and rope. For walking I use about 100 lm . But our caves not very big (volume).
For 15 day trip at this august I used 11*18650.

Here carbide lamps are forbidden they are not eco friendly.

What is it ?

You see this is the kind of information you can only get on BLF! It must work well because you or your bag have not gone shooting across the cave.

I think it’s adapted from diving to estimate how much air you carry. In our case, power, water etc. 1/3 for going in, 1/3 for exiting, 1/3 extra (for emergency). So for a 2 day trip you carry enough for 3 days minimum.

I still have half a dozen carbide lamps and a maintenance kits.
I really need to clean house sometime.

They probably should be. There is no practical need for them anymore. Except maybe to show off.



Some cavers still use Carbide because of the nice color temperature (plus it can be used as emergency heat source)