Massive fraud on 18650s in the Littokala Aliexpress stores!

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Barkuti
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If HenrysCat were to obtain a V(C) curve (voltage to capacity) like the usual ones, it'd be of help. Anyway, let's see if we can make some sort of comparison with the V(t) curves from Henrik:

 

 

 

 

There are some shape differences like, for example, the nearly instant drop under 4.1V at the start for the non 30Q cell. 

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The problem is that 1A isn’t high enough to see if they are at least acceptable fake 30Qs.

I mean, the top terminal has more than 3 legs, so it’s not a 30Q.

Anyway, could you test the cell at 3A or more, or give any resistance readings?

Thank you.

My very own high current Beryllium Copper springs Gen 3:
http://budgetlightforum.com/node/67401
Liitokala Aliexpress Stores Battery Fraud: http://budgetlightforum.com/node/60547

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Barkuti wrote:
Unlike Bangbad with their button tops and such, FastTech takes care; something quite understandable when you see the money you end up paying there what with one thing and another.

I’m cooking mine now. Can’t get consistent mΩ readings worth a damn, but then again I never could. The Ope isn’t getting heat-stroke — yet — charging and discharging at 1A each (all 4 bays loaded), so I should get some indication by tomorrow.

 

I typically get a consistent 30xxmAH with 30Qs.

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HenrysCat
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Barkuti wrote:

If HenrysCat were to obtain a V(C) curve (voltage to capacity) like the usual ones, it'd be of help.

 

You mean this? That's the only other way the software will display the results.

https://i.imgrpost.com/imgr/2019/10/27/Samsung-30Qv.png

Currently running a 5A test, will post results when done.

HenrysCat
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 The results are in Smile

https://i.imgrpost.com/imgr/2019/10/27/Samsung-30Qc.png

https://i.imgrpost.com/imgr/2019/10/27/Samsung-30Qd.png

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HenrysCat wrote:

You mean this? That's the only other way the software will display the results.

https://i.imgrpost.com/imgr/2019/10/27/Samsung-30Qv.png

Currently running a 5A test, will post results when done.

Yes.

Took a look at HKJ's comparator and unsurprisingly couldn't find any match among famous manufacturer cells. Henrik has not tested all the cells which exist, of course, but given the cost and origin the cell must be manufactured by some decent chinese OEM.

Now what matters is, how good that cell actually is? We'll be waiting for the 5A test, if you are using a 4-wire battery holder the cell's internal resistance will be easily inferred with decent precision by comparing the available V(C) curves.

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Barkuti wrote:

We'll be waiting for the 5A test, if you are using a 4-wire battery holder the cell's internal resistance will be easily inferred with decent precision by comparing the available V(C) curves.

5 & 3A test posted above Wink

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HenrysCat wrote:

 The results are in Smile

https://i.imgrpost.com/imgr/2019/10/27/Samsung-30Qd.png

Wellp, it certainly is no high discharge cell (this or your testing setup is terribly flawed). At the 300mA point there's more than 0.3V of difference between the 5A and the 1A curves, it translates in above 75mΩ of internal resistance and this means your setup must not have independent voltage Question monitoring, and also the cell looks to be of pretty standard 2C discharge rate.

Sun, 10/27/2019 - 23:10

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Oh yeah.

Average voltage is too low for a 30Q.

An internal resistance measurement+ a 10A test would seal the deal.

My very own high current Beryllium Copper springs Gen 3:
http://budgetlightforum.com/node/67401
Liitokala Aliexpress Stores Battery Fraud: http://budgetlightforum.com/node/60547

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Barkuti wrote:

Wellp, it certainly is no high discharge cell (this or your testing setup is terribly flawed). At the 300mA point there's more than 0.3V of difference between the 5A and the 1A curves, it translates in above 75mΩ of internal resistance and this means your setup must not have independent voltage Question monitoring, and also the cell looks to be of pretty standard 2C discharge rate.

Thanks Barkuti, it's nice learn something new, my load tester is probably not the best ever, but neither are my cells I guess Smile

I will try the same tests on my Sofirn 18650's now.

BlueSwordM wrote:
Oh yeah. Average voltage is too low for a 30Q. An internal resistance measurement+ a 10A test would seal the deal.

Unfortunately 5A is my little testers max.

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I do not have fancy discharge testing gear. For me, I drop a cell into a known light and use a large gauge current loop and voltage monitor and cook the cell in something that draws like mad. Look for sag and current draw response.

EDC rotation:
FW1A, LH351D 4000k (second favorite)
FW3A, LH351D 3500k
FW3A, SST20 FD2 4000k
FW3A, Nichia 4000k sw40 r9080 (favorite light!)
FW3A, Cree XP-L Hi 5A3
Emisar D4V2, SST20 4000k
S2+, XM-L2 T6 4C

BlueSwordM
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What are you talking about?

This is not fancy: http://budgetlightforum.com/comment/1430588#comment-1430588

My very own high current Beryllium Copper springs Gen 3:
http://budgetlightforum.com/node/67401
Liitokala Aliexpress Stores Battery Fraud: http://budgetlightforum.com/node/60547

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BlueSwordM wrote:
What are you talking about?

This is not fancy: http://budgetlightforum.com/comment/1430588#comment-1430588

What is the active load? Model number. Also, could you post a pic of the homemade cell holder? 3 amps is a good enough test for me. I would like to be able to rate cells when I get them and they every 6 months to a year later do the same test again. I use a few multi-cell serial and parallel lights and would like to match them at something higher than 1 amp.

EDC rotation:
FW1A, LH351D 4000k (second favorite)
FW3A, LH351D 3500k
FW3A, SST20 FD2 4000k
FW3A, Nichia 4000k sw40 r9080 (favorite light!)
FW3A, Cree XP-L Hi 5A3
Emisar D4V2, SST20 4000k
S2+, XM-L2 T6 4C

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Just in case anyone was wondering this is what I use Smile

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32614219909.html

&

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32664964301.html

Would love to know how good it actually is.

 

Barkuti
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HenrysCat wrote:

Thanks Barkuti, it's nice learn something new, my load tester is probably not the best ever, but neither are my cells I guess Smile

Would you mind sharing what tester? I have this  discharge tester in my wishlist (some feedback here), may buy it some time. But if I can find some cheap graphic rendering device, the better.

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Barkuti
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HenrysCat wrote:

Just in case anyone was wondering this is what I use Smile

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32614219909.html

&

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32664964301.html

Would love to know how goos it actually is. 

Aaah, then you have a 4-wire battery holder. Well, this confirms your “3000mAh” cell is a battery of pretty standard discharge. The following is what likely it is:

 

Source: https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/High-Capacity-INR18650-3200mAh-Dlg-3_60805797151.html Smile 

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Ordered one of these just for the fun of it, looks interesting.

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000144172951.html

Think we getting OT here Smile

 

mattlward
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HenrysCat wrote:

Just in case anyone was wondering this is what I use Smile


https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32614219909.html


&


https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32664964301.html


Would love to know how good it actually is.


 

Does their software do English?

EDC rotation:
FW1A, LH351D 4000k (second favorite)
FW3A, LH351D 3500k
FW3A, SST20 FD2 4000k
FW3A, Nichia 4000k sw40 r9080 (favorite light!)
FW3A, Cree XP-L Hi 5A3
Emisar D4V2, SST20 4000k
S2+, XM-L2 T6 4C

HenrysCat
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mattlward wrote:

Does their software do English?

Yup Smile

https://i.imgrpost.com/imgr/2019/10/28/EBtester.png

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HenrysCat wrote:

Ordered one of these just for the fun of it, looks interesting.


https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000144172951.html


Think we getting OT here Smile


 


Well Dang, but that’s sure a pretty little critter.
I look forward to hearing about how well it works.

DIY LT1 battery wrap image. "PDF on Google Drive":https://drive.google.com/open?id=1IHIEOi1NXu868IYNCzIM7D2Ulpxchmww

Fresh Sanyo NCR18650GAs already wrapped "for sale HERE":http://budgetlightforum.com/node/69120 if you like.

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Anyone know if the “147”, “151”, etc., is the date code for 30Qs? Ie, the last line, under “SAMSUNG SDI“.

Pain in the ass Opus was getting heat-stroke again, would drop to 0mA, then back up to 1000mA, then stop, then go, etc., that I redid the cap test at 500mA just to get all 4 uninterrupted. Just put on the second group of 4 this morning. Sick

All finally clocked in in the 2800s, all within like 60mAH but still just a hair under 3000mAH.

Wondering if they may be from a coupla years back and need some “exercise” or whatever to get up to speed.

09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0

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Damn, I bought six 21700 batteries from this seller https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32846442786.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.7...

It actually looked pretty legit, but I doubt the batteries are. Does anyone know where to get proper batteries with international shipping?

I’m not trusting eBay sellers even though their price seem realistic either.

Current lights:

Emisar D4V2 SST-20 4000K, D4V2 Ti SST-20 2700K, D4V2 Ti SST-20 4000K, D4V2 Ti XPL-Hi V3 1A, D4SV2 SST-20 3000K Noctigon KR1 OSRAM W2, K9.3 XPL-Hi V3 3A + SST-20 2700K | Fireflies PL47G2 XPL HI V3 3A, PL47G2 SST-20 4000K, E07 219B 4500K Lumintop FW1A SST-20 4000K, Tool AA 2.0 Nitecore LR12 XP-L HD V6 6500K, TUP XP-L HD V6 6500K | Sofirn C01S SST-20 4000K, SP10S LH351D 5000K, IF25/LT1-M SST-20 2700K + 6500K w/3D printed diffuser, BLF SP36 LH351D 5000K, BLF LT1 | ZebraLight SC700d XHP 70.2 5000K Hi-CRI, SC53Fc XP-L2 4000K Convoy C8+ SST-40 6500K Acebeam H30 XHP 70.2 5000K | Manker E14 III LH351D 6500K

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Nismo wrote:
Damn, I bought six 21700 batteries from this seller https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32846442786.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.7...

It actually looked pretty legit, but I doubt the batteries are. Does anyone know where to get proper batteries with international shipping?

I’m not trusting eBay sellers even though their price seem realistic either.


The wraps say 40A, but the description says 15A.
I’d probably trust them to be 15A…

DIY LT1 battery wrap image. "PDF on Google Drive":https://drive.google.com/open?id=1IHIEOi1NXu868IYNCzIM7D2Ulpxchmww

Fresh Sanyo NCR18650GAs already wrapped "for sale HERE":http://budgetlightforum.com/node/69120 if you like.

Barkuti
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Lightbringer wrote:
Anyone know if the "147", "151", etc., is the date code for 30Qs? Ie, the last line, under "SAMSUNG SDI".

Pain in the ass Opus was getting heat-stroke again, would drop to 0mA, then back up to 1000mA, then stop, then go, etc., …

Do yourself a favour, buy a 12cm computer fan and place it above the charger while 1A discharging. Of course, power it up.

Nismo wrote:
Damn, I bought six 21700 batteries from this seller https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32846442786.html

It actually looked pretty legit, but I doubt the batteries are. Does anyone know where to get proper batteries with international shipping?

Lishen LS21700SA cells, 3C manufacturer rated (12A). According to Henrik's review the cells get slightly above the maximum recommendable temperature when discharged continuously at 15A.

NKON may ship to Norway for affordable money. 

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sienna wrote:
US $22.11 shipping to Canada Sad

For genuine cells here in Canada, i buy all my Li-Ion cells from https://18650canada.com

That Canadian flashlight guy & Lantern Guru -Den / DBSARlight

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amishbill wrote:
I’m not trusting eBay sellers even though their price seem realistic either. The wraps say 40A, but the description says 15A. I’d probably trust them to be 15A…

If they’re 15A they’re good enough for my use, but I’m worried they might leak.

I bought some legit Samsung 40T from a french eBay seller to be sure I have some decent ones.

Current lights:

Emisar D4V2 SST-20 4000K, D4V2 Ti SST-20 2700K, D4V2 Ti SST-20 4000K, D4V2 Ti XPL-Hi V3 1A, D4SV2 SST-20 3000K Noctigon KR1 OSRAM W2, K9.3 XPL-Hi V3 3A + SST-20 2700K | Fireflies PL47G2 XPL HI V3 3A, PL47G2 SST-20 4000K, E07 219B 4500K Lumintop FW1A SST-20 4000K, Tool AA 2.0 Nitecore LR12 XP-L HD V6 6500K, TUP XP-L HD V6 6500K | Sofirn C01S SST-20 4000K, SP10S LH351D 5000K, IF25/LT1-M SST-20 2700K + 6500K w/3D printed diffuser, BLF SP36 LH351D 5000K, BLF LT1 | ZebraLight SC700d XHP 70.2 5000K Hi-CRI, SC53Fc XP-L2 4000K Convoy C8+ SST-40 6500K Acebeam H30 XHP 70.2 5000K | Manker E14 III LH351D 6500K

Barkuti
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Nismo wrote:

If they're 15A they're good enough for my use, but I'm worried they might leak.

See what I said above. They still hold their voltage well at 15A and can be considered “15A”, albeit technically they're not 15A, just close.

How is a li-ion cell going to leak? Without puncturing the can, that is. And you don't want to puncture a standard li-ion cell, my dear:

Source thread: Testing 18650 Safety - Russian Ukrainian Style 

P.S.: some people has managed to make cylindrical cells leak, spot welding the cells wildly by hand. Proper spot welding requires precise timings and current flow.

Mon, 10/28/2019 - 21:15

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Lightbringer wrote:
Anyone know if the “147”, “151”, etc., is the date code for 30Qs? Ie, the last line, under “SAMSUNG SDI“.

No, the code format has changed somewhat over the years, but it’s on the metal can itself. See HERE. We also recently discussed this somewhat HERE.

RobAllen

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HenrysCat wrote:

Ordered one of these just for the fun of it, looks interesting.


https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000144172951.html


Think we getting OT here Smile


 

More OT: This is par for the course, but the page repeatedly says it has “6-Bit” high-resolution display, but I’m pretty sure that it actually means 6 digit resolution; a 6-bit resolution would be rather useless Smile .

RobAllen

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leftdisconnected wrote:
More OT: This is par for the course, but the page repeatedly says it has "6-Bit" high-resolution display, but I'm pretty sure that it actually means 6 *digit* resolution; a 6-bit resolution would be rather useless Smile .

I'll try and do a mini review and post it when it arrives Smile

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