Interest collect for a new Sofirn design: tube style18650, magnetic ring control, USB-C charging, 500 lm max (AKA grandma light)

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Jerommel wrote:
djozz wrote:
@No-2-Ageing, as said before, I will not allow this light to become bulky or ugly, so a “bone shape” will not happen if it is up to me.
I don’t think he means it should look like a bone, Jos. LOL

He means that the head and tailcap diameter should be larger than the battery tube.
This is not uncommon in flashlights, it usually looks good too.

Bah. I call that the pipe-bomb look.

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Jerommel wrote:
This i.m.o. still looks like the most natural interface, ergonomically speaking:

The travel of these sliders is usually very short though, probably for technical reasons or to keep it simple and cheap to produce.

But the shape is good too, but more ‘manly’ than the previous one.

Not sure about the blue stuff, but this body color also looks nice.

Add a clip and it won’t roll off the table.

http://budgetlightforum.com/node/52132

The existing DV-S9 is a rather beautiful indigo color (the plain blue in the pic doesn’t do it justice), and the red ring is a retainer to keep the slider from falling out, but also gives it a nice accent.

As for ring-lights, the WW SD02/WK20 would be a good starting point. Just remove the detentes and make it continuously-variable instead of discrete steps.

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Lightbringer
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eicca wrote:
The slider interface is extremely user friendly but IIRC it’s more of a challenge to properly waterproof.

?? It’s perfectly waterproof. The slider has a small magnet embedded in it, and the Hall-effect sensor is inside the light. There’s no opening whatsoever, and to clean the slot, just unscrew the retaining ring, slide out the slider, and clean it underwater, etc., then reverse the process.

Also, the DV-S9 has triple O-rings in the tailcap, so with that, no opening for the switch/slider, and if the front glass is properly secured, it’s about as waterproof as you’re gonna get.

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Interested, count me in for 2

djozz
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Lots of discussion going on, it is even a bit of a challenge to filter out the list-requests Smile
We are currently at 151 units on the BLF list, plus 67 on the TLF list, which makes 208 total.

Although the imagination can go wild on how to make maximal use of the magnetic ring, and the extra tailswitch comes up as well sometimes, I will indeed stick to my guns with just a ring that works as an oldschool radio power/volume knob: dented in when off, rotate for low to high (with either dents with discrete modes, or a ramp), rotate back for high to low and click off.

Once (if) this light exists we could try to convince Sofirn to make a flashoholics version, more output, fancier user interface, maybe add a tailswitch. It is not what I personally find interesting though, such flashlights exist already, what can only be added to those is a BLF-approved user interface and of course a BLF-friendly price.

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I mentioned tail switch above but I think tail switch is only beneficial if Sofirn can’t figure out a way to completely stop standby current. Otherwise, I see no point of having a tail switch to complicate things.

Flashaholic version with quad emitters would be pretty sweet Love

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djozz wrote:
Lots of discussion going on, it is even a bit of a challenge to filter out the list-requests Smile
We are currently at 151 units on the BLF list, plus 67 on the TLF list, which makes 208 total.

Although the imagination can go wild on how to make maximal use of the magnetic ring, and the extra tailswitch comes up as well sometimes, I will indeed stick to my guns with just a ring that works as an oldschool radio power/volume knob: dented in when off, rotate for low to high (with either dents with discrete modes, or a ramp), rotate back for high to low and click off.

Once (if) this light exists we could try to convince Sofirn to make a flashoholics version, more output, fancier user interface, maybe add a tailswitch. It is not what I personally find interesting though, such flashlights exist already, what can only be added to those is a BLF-approved user interface and of course a BLF-friendly price.


Personally i would love to see the driver become available separately (as Sofirn drivers often are), at least, if it’s a PWM-less, true Constant Current driver.
In fact, i think a nice driver is mainly what needs to be developed for this light.
aswang
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Interested in 2. Could use some grandma lights to give away to parents. The SC31 was great in this regard and I’ve given away a couple of them as gifts.

+1 to sub lumen mode. You never know you need it until you’ve used it. After that, it’s a must have.

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I don’t see the point in limiting it to 500 lumens. If it will reliably step down from 1000 then Grandma can quickly see what’s going on in the neighbor’s backyard. The brand new Wowtac A7 looks simple enough. With a rear on and off switch (and memory) and a front switch for modes. It’s basically an updated A1S with micro USB external charging and 1 inch shorter. The new A6 is also pretty easy to operate and at 3.88 inches it will fit in any of Grandma’s pockets. Both are only available currently in CW but it looks like NW is coming. I think both of those are easy enough for 98% of people to operate. Edit, I will likely try both the A6 and A7 if and when they come in NW.

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moderator007 wrote:
Im interested as long as the “Infinite Variable Control Ring” is in the design.
I made the same mistake, when I saw “Magnetic Ring”, but no, this light is not Infinitely variable.

it just has 3 modes, like the magnetic ring on the Jetbeam TCR-10

djozz wrote:
operation will be a magnetic control ring with off-low10lumen-med100lumen-high500lumen, nothing else (and so not infinitely variable)

as stated the lowest mode is 10 lumens, no moonlight.. grandma does not need moonlight..
the next mode is 100 lumens.. grandma does not need infinitely variable output..

this light is not for flashaholics, its for grandma

the title of the thread is unclear, it gave me the impression that it was a brainstorming thread, to develop a new BLF collaborative design. It is actually an INTEREST thread, for a design that has already been decided.

For those of us wanting infinitely variable, moonlight, etc, this is not the Droid were looking for.

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jon_slider wrote:
moderator007 wrote:
Im interested as long as the “Infinite Variable Control Ring” is in the design.
I made the same mistake, when I saw “Magnetic Ring”, but no, this light is not Infinitely variable.

it just has 3 modes, like the magnetic ring on the Jetbeam TCR-10

djozz wrote:
operation will be a magnetic control ring with off-low10lumen-med100lumen-high500lumen, nothing else (and so not infinitely variable)

as stated the lowest mode is 10 lumens, no moonlight.. grandma does not need moonlight..
the next mode is 100 lumens.. grandma does not need infinitely variable output..

this light is not for flashaholics, its for grandma


Those premises are not written in stone though.
If it’s possible, there will be stepless dimming.
Besides, the steps between 10, 100 and 500 Lumen are huge.
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jon_slider wrote:
moderator007 wrote:
Im interested as long as the “Infinite Variable Control Ring” is in the design.
I made the same mistake, when I saw “Magnetic Ring”, but no, this light is not Infinitely variable.

it just has 3 modes, like the magnetic ring on the Jetbeam TCR-10

djozz wrote:
operation will be a magnetic control ring with off-low10lumen-med100lumen-high500lumen, nothing else (and so not infinitely variable)

as stated the lowest mode is 10 lumens, no moonlight.. grandma does not need moonlight..
the next mode is 100 lumens.. grandma does not need infinitely variable output..

this light is not for flashaholics, its for grandma


I understand that magnetic ring fanatics like you can be disappointed, I own the Jetbeam RRT-01 and it has an amazing low moonlight and supersmooth ramping behaviour.

But this is simply not those flashlights. I already explained that the magnetic ring is not intended as the ultimate flashoholic gimmick but very simply for its intuitiveness and self-explainability. That quality has a stepped mode ring just as well (maybe even better) as a ramping ring. If making a ramping ring is just as possible for the same price I will go for it because many people want it and it does not violate the design goals, but personally I like the simplicity of discrete modes better.

Same goes for leaving out moon, if added it would violate the self-explaining requirement of this light.

Is it therefore not a flashoholics light? I do not agree. As a flashoholic I can really enjoy goodlooking, well-made and well-functioning flashlights. Maybe the simple ones even better than ones with lots of bells and whistles.

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djozz wrote:
I understand that magnetic ring fanatics like you can be disappointed

not a problem
my wallet is happy

you did a good job of explaining that the light you designed is not infinitely variable

I agree discrete modes, and simple designs can be very useful.

I respect your project and initiative. I do not mind that it is not a design that interests me. And Im happy that you are producing a light that interests many others.

Carry on Smile

Merry New Year!

ps, in a future design, I suggest Titanium and Infinitely Variable Smile

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jon_slider wrote:
the title of the thread is unclear, it gave me the impression that it was a brainstorming thread, to develop a new BLF collaborative design. It is actually an INTEREST thread, for a design that has already been decided.

Huh?? The title does not say that it is a brainstorming thread and it does say that it is an interest thread. Your impression can not be caused by the title AFAICS.

But I fully accept that brainstorming will happen, as with every BLF-thread. Part of being on BLF, and highly appreciated because things come up that I had not thought of.

No BLF-light can be fully collaborative or they will never happen. the LT1 has a strong influence from DBSAR, lots of design decisions are his, supplemented with ideas from BLF. Same goes for the Q8, most decisions were made by the team and Thorfire. Are they not BLF lights?

This light was inspired by BLF-experiences and my personal experiences with non-flashoholic people, supplemented with how I think such light should look like, and will be futher supplemented by suggestions in this thread. Having an old contact at Sofirn, I took the initiative, made a list of requirements and asked for such a light and it took half a year for them to trust that it is good idea. The requirement list is what Sofirn’s cooperation and price estimate is based on, and the interest from who are already on the list is based on these requirements too, and so I will guard those requirement. It generated thusfar interest for more than 200 lights so it can’t be bad.

So I will continue to have a strong say in how this light in this thread might become, and the final say is very much by Sofirn. As for if “the design is already decided”, it has not even started.

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jon_slider wrote:
djozz wrote:
I understand that magnetic ring fanatics like you can be disappointed

not a problem
my wallet is happy

you did a good job of explaining that the light you designed is not infinitely variable

I agree discrete modes, and simple designs can be very useful.

I respect your project and initiative. I do not mind that it is not a design that interests me. And Im happy that you are producing a light that interests many others.

Carry on Smile

Merry New Year!

ps, in a future design, I suggest Titanium and Infinitely Variable Smile

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I’m a little confused right now..

djozz wrote:
…. I will indeed stick to my guns with just a ring that works as an oldschool radio power/volume knob: dented in when off, rotate for low to high (with either dents with discrete modes, or a ramp), rotate back for high to low and click off.
Personally i see no need for a twisty ring when you only have a few fixed modes.
There are already lights on the market that have that.
The old school radio knob idea i do like very much, but that implies stepless dimming i.m.o.
But then the indentes on a few levels would stop making sense too.
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The advantage of a ring-only interface is that almost everyone will understand what to do with it without instruction. Come to think of it, that’s a significant enough benefit that I retract my prior lack of personal interest: I’m in for one if only to use as a loaner to save me the effort of explaining UIs.

If it has stepless dimming and a real moonlight mode, I might be in for more than one. I don’t think those features detract from the original idea (radio knobs are stepless), and I don’t think the moonlight mode will lead to confusion if and only if the dimming is stepless.

Ceilingbounce – flashlight testing and runtime graphs for Android

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zak.wilson wrote:
The advantage of a ring-only interface is that almost everyone will understand what to do with it without instruction. Come to think of it, that’s a significant enough benefit that I retract my prior lack of personal interest: I’m in for one if only to use as a loaner to save me the effort of explaining UIs.

If it has stepless dimming and a real moonlight mode, I might be in for more than one. I don’t think those features detract from the original idea (radio knobs are stepless), and I don’t think the moonlight mode will lead to confusion if and only if the dimming is stepless.

Sooooooo… SD02/WK20? Wonderful WW, magring, moonlight, waterproof as in diving-light.

Dunno, but I’m just not seeing any niche that the OP light would fill, except for adding charging (and compromising waterproofness).

If I had to loan out one, it’d be the SD05 which doesn’t have moonlight (so no inadvertently leaving it on due to not noticing that it’s actually on), or better yet the DV-S9 which is more intuitive with the slider.

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Make something that looks and functions like the Sunwayman V11R in 18650,with powerbank/charging usb-c, in the size of the Folomov EDC C4 (100mm max length)

It would sell like pancakes

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Oli wrote:
I don’t see the point in limiting it to 500 lumens. If it will reliably step down from 1000 then Grandma can quickly see what’s going on in the neighbor’s backyard. The brand new Wowtac A7 looks simple enough. With a rear on and off switch (and memory) and a front switch for modes. It’s basically an updated A1S with micro USB external charging and 1 inch shorter. The new A6 is also pretty easy to operate and at 3.88 inches it will fit in any of Grandma’s pockets. Both are only available currently in CW but it looks like NW is coming. I think both of those are easy enough for 98% of people to operate. Edit, I will likely try both the A6 and A7 if and when they come in NW.

You already made the mistake many others have made in this thread.
A light that needs two separate operations is not ‘simple enough’ for many people that are just nog technical. (like many elderly, if we keep making that comparison) They will just keep pressing the side button while nothing happens and then they complain why the light doesn’t work.

The idea is to make a simple, easy to operate, fool proof light that just works and that everyone can operate it. It’s not purely aimed at grandma’s, it’s just a sort of expression to explain that the light need to be easy to operate.

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jon_slider wrote:
djozz wrote:

Huh?? The title does not say that it is a brainstorming thread and it does say that it is an interest thread.

As for if “the design is already decided”, it has not even started.

the title says:
“Interest collect”

and after I suggested infinitely variable you posted

djozz wrote:
Being the starter of this thread … I reserve the right to acknowledge or ignore suggestions for this light

since you chose to ignore my suggestion, I got the message loud and clear that discussing an infinitely variable light is outside the parameters.

still not a problem.. I trust many people will enjoy your Grandma Design Smile

UnSubscribed

This is a worthwhile project which deserves to succeed.

However; for it to truly to live up to the promise of being a light that the flashaholic will routinely enjoy and wish to use himself the design and cost constraints appear far too onerous. The OP rather firm about the format being somewhat rudimentary which is perhaps OK given the stated.

IMHO Down the road a fork is badly wanted for a upscale variant ring control with no-nonsense go anywhere operation.

Vital:
Promote speedy arrival of proper ageing REVERSAL medicine. It IS possible. - It's going to end not only the persistent curse of old age - but therefore - dying! We don't want to be the last generation to miss the boat. - Are you in?

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I have a modded supfire light that came with a tailcap on-off clicky and a side switch for modes. I like it because the techie in me likes being able to totally kill the parasitic off-state load. I have loaned it to some people who have trouble with the two separated switches. They sometimes have forgotten how to turn it off and other times don’t recall they must click the tail cap to turn it in.

OTOH they had better luck with twinned side switches such as used on several Wuben lights.

To be able to have a light that is more then a simple on-off click like a D-cell Maglite, requires switch markings, IMO, if the light is to be used by people who are not techies.

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Even a radio is going to have a minimum of 4 buttons and dials. On off Volume Frequency/channel AM/FM It’s pretty easy to put a big on and off label near the tail switch. A4nd if it’s got mode memory you can put duct tape over the front switch so they can’t change the freaking channel. I’ve given the Wowtac A1S to a few old ladies including my mother. One did have a problem and said it would only come on temporarily when she pressed the rear switch. I explained that she was only half pressing it and just needed to press it a little bit harder until it clicked. So I understand there can be issues but they are all very happy with it.

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MtnDon wrote:
I have a modded supfire light that came with a tailcap on-off clicky and a side switch for modes. I like it because the techie in me likes being able to totally kill the parasitic off-state load. I have loaned it to some people who have trouble with the two separated switches. They sometimes have forgotten how to turn it off and other times don’t recall they must click the tail cap to turn it in.

OTOH they had better luck with twinned side switches such as used on several Wuben lights.

To be able to have a light that is more then a simple on-off click like a D-cell Maglite, requires switch markings, IMO, if the light is to be used by people who are not techies.


Ideally this light would really turn off (as in cut the battery power) when turning it ‘off’.
This is not easy to with a magnet though.
There are reed switches of course, but the hysteresis makes it unsuitable for this light.
It could be done mechanically though, but that would compromise water resistance and / or add more complexity.
It would be nice though. Smile
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Jerommel wrote:
Personally i would love to see the driver become available separately (as Sofirn drivers often are), at least, if it’s a PWM-less, true Constant Current driver. In fact, i think a nice driver is mainly what needs to be developed for this light.

I agree with you on this. I would love to see some budget high efficiency regulated drivers. All of the current drivers in BLF type lights are so inefficient compared with Olight, Fenix and Nitecore that they are really just flashaholic toys rather than actual tools. Here is a zeroair.org comparison of the runtime graph between Olight S2r II baton vs FW3A. The Olight driver efficiency and regulation is in a completely different league. The latest Olight Perun should be another big jump over the S2r II in efficiency so seems like there is huge room for improvement for BLF budget lights. I’m not expecting Sofirn to match Olight, which makes the most efficient drivers in the business, but I expect to at least head in that direction. The Sofirn SP33v2 driver is amazingly efficient too and not too far from Olight levels so I know Sofirn has the capability to make good drivers.

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Interested !

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djozz wrote:
this light is not for flashaholics, its for grandma I understand that magnetic ring fanatics like you can be disappointed, I own the Jetbeam RRT-01 and it has an amazing low moonlight and supersmooth ramping behaviour.

But this is simply not those flashlights. I already explained that the magnetic ring is not intended as the ultimate flashoholic gimmick but very simply for its intuitiveness and self-explainability. That quality has a stepped mode ring just as well (maybe even better) as a ramping ring. If making a ramping ring is just as possible for the same price I will go for it because many people want it and it does not violate the design goals, but personally I like the simplicity of discrete modes better.

Same goes for leaving out moon, if added it would violate the self-explaining requirement of this light.

Is it therefore not a flashoholics light? I do not agree. As a flashoholic I can really enjoy goodlooking, well-made and well-functioning flashlights. Maybe the simple ones even better than ones with lots of bells and whistles.

I agree with everything you just typed. Perfect.

Simple wins with me everytime. I’m not a granny or incapable of working more complex lights but, I surely don’t go out seeking complex lights. If this thing gets Andruil step less dimming into it, it just won’t be what it’s intended to be.

I love sublumen modes. I use them every night. I have a few lights that do those modes well, very well. I have no need for those modes in every light I have. I would never want those modes in my EDC light. I don’t think granny would need them either. To us these lights are a part of our lives. To them they are just a light in an otherwise dark room. I wouldn’t want to lose good mode spacing by adding a sublumen mode. Same for the blinkies. Down with the disco modes.

This got me thinking of the Xeno Cube. It would be great if the head would rotate for Off, Low, Med, High. Steps up clockwise, steps down counter clockwise. It wouldn’t roll away easily. That project is for another time though.

"Everywhere I go, there I am"

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SKV89 wrote:
Here is a zeroair.org comparison of the runtime graph between Olight S2r II baton vs FW3A. The Olight driver efficiency and regulation is in a completely different league. !
that was before zeroair.org understood thermal configuration. A better graph would be his second attempt on his FW1A. But even then he is using batteries with much less capacities on all of his FW## tests.

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Wow, I just had a look on the TLF page about this light, and they are already at 90 units now, with the 155 from BLF that makes 245 total.

In this pace the interest from just Germany overtakes the interest from worldwide BLF Wink

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Oli wrote:
SKV89 wrote:
Here is a zeroair.org comparison of the runtime graph between Olight S2r II baton vs FW3A. The Olight driver efficiency and regulation is in a completely different league. !
that was before zeroair.org understood thermal configuration. A better graph would be his second attempt on his FW1A. But even then he is using batteries with much less capacities on all of his FW## tests.

But even the FW1A has far less lumens and efficiency than the Olight. The Olight maintains 500 lumens for almost 4 hours straight.

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