For the sake of gatekeeping the interest/hobby of flashlights versus that of consumerism, upon philosophy and analysis

This has been a troublesome matter to me, one that is hard to explain. I have thought of how some users buy and buy, obsessively. It it their money, it is up to them what to do with it. In this hobby, there are less kinds of these people, all of us bought lights, but also many of us modify our lights, some of us modify our firmware, and we even have some that build their own, sometimes from scratch, even some that make them for the community. Some people simply buy lights, but obsessively so. It is a materialism problem, there is even a support page for those who just buy flashlights. Some people call something a hobby and that is where I ask you what you consider a hobby.

I have argued with audiophiles that call buying progressively more expensive hardware that what they are partaking in is consumerism not a hobby, it is the same if I say I am going to the mall and that is my hobby, or saying I am buying power tools and that is my hobby. I do not think that buying things is a hobby, it is something you do, something that others are not able to do, the more that nobody could do it, the deeper you are into a hobby. I think it is something that is harder than clicking buy, forking cash over, which anyone can do. Bargaining for cheaper goods may be considered a hobby the same way some people clip coupons (maybe some people here are obsessed with the utility of a flashlight and the adrenaline rush of a good deal). Maybe they are obsessed with giving away flashlights as gifts. Maybe someone is feeling like engulfing a whole shelf with objects.

I thought of it seeing how many people get obsessed with flashlights and buy many, I have many of them and was going to buy more, many are gifts, but most are for me and are unused. This concept came up to me, as the word of "bugman". This is a term that has been used to describe audiophiles and people who are obsessed with mechanical keyboards, as well as people who are loyal to a company for the sake of its brand. There's a lot of obsessive materialism, and sometimes I don't blame buyers who buy several of one light due to quality fade in many of the Chinese products. https://knowledge.wharton.upenn.edu/article/quality-fade-chinas-great-business-challenge/ The idea of manufactured scarcity may also play into fooling us many utilities that I buy I can sympathize with why they're purchased higher than the utility point (such as the constantly looming thread of gun bans).

https://www.meta-nomad.net/bugmen-what-are-they/

https://hackernoon.com/on-the-infestation-of-small-souled-bugmen-6561ae922e07

https://old.reddit.com/r/ConsumeProduct/comments/dwqey4/what_exactly_do_any_of_you_like/

Here is a little quote about a bugman if you do want to click the links.

A bugman is your typical big left leaning city dweller. He is usually obsessed with consumerism, lining up to purchase the newest iPhone or MacBook when it comes out, and using a smartwatch/smart home speaker for longer than the week after he bought it. Chances are he owns other throwaway smart gadgets as well. All his tastes in movies, music, expensive food, art, and more are determined by what review sites and blogs say.Everything about his personality and life is not defined by who he is, but by what he buys and his consumerist tendencies. He'll be subscribed to at least one, maybe multiple subscription services, he'll happily use social media and upload all of his information to the cloud, and he'll gravitate towards things that seem "rational" and use big words.In fact, their social media use defines a lot about who they are, as they try to get the most likes on social media bragging about their life and viewing the lives of others who do the same. Yet there is something big missing about their life, something that can be seen in their face. Something that can be seen the minute you strip away all the consumerist choices and realize, there's nothing else. Their lives are empty, hollow, and all about serving corporations, until they die, and this is seen in their empty insectoid stare that implies they're dead inside, giving them the name bugmen. Did you see that bugman standing in line waiting for the new iPhone X?

Upon reading about that concept, I asked myself that question, for me it was the thrill of finding a good deal and it having a lot of utility, Danny Kahneman the author of thinking fast and slow has said that we come to a conclusion and then make the justification after in his studies of psychology. I had an addiction to slickdeals for a while, buying things that I did not need as well. I did was happy that I had modded my flashlights even before reading about this, but it encourages me to try to do more than consume goods, there is a 4chan meme called the coomsumer.

What are your thoughts of consumerism and hobbies? Perhaps its just effective marketing, I could be wrong, perhaps when I started collecting them, there were many problems that are less common now, maybe at one point flashlights will get so good that modding it will be less common because they will be such great quality. What do you think the definition of a hobby is? If you collect enough flashlights beyond your own defined utility point, why do you think you do so?

Umm, what was the question again?

Not quite sure what flashlights and “bug-men” and “barcades” have to do with each other. (Seriously, “barcade” is a thing?)

Huh… apparently it is. barcade - Google Search

Dunno what others are into, but right now I’m all flashlighted out. I did get a pair of ED20-Ts, which I’m glad I did because they’re quite nice. But the talk of new lights in various threads leaves me cold. Not interested.

When I do like a light, absolutely I want more’n one, in case one crokes and I can’t get a replacement later.

And sometimes a new toy supplants an older toy.

And there’s no such thing as The Light™. Flood, throw, moonlight/firefly, “turbo”, size, UI, CT/tint, etc., no one light does/has it all. So yeah, you need an assortment. Right in front of me, I got 6 lights which do different things. When I need one, I’ll pick the right one for the job. GTmicro for small’n’throwy. WW E03 w/ diffusion film for going around the house. Old SP10B for firefly (kinda obviated now by the ’micro after setting moonlight to 1, down from 5 or whatever). ED50 for pocketable bright light, DC7 for not-quite-so-pocketable bright light. ED20-T for the kewl dual-switch.

Ain’t even counting my EDCs or lanterns or headlamps, again, right here in front of me.

Oh, and a coupla AAAs, a Wuben and Ultratac, I think. Alkaleaks inside will probably crap the bed before I get rid of ’em.

A mechanic doesn’t just “get by” with one adjustable wrench, so why should I “get by” with just one light?

> I do not think that buying things is a hobby

What about collecting thing? Unless you trade for everything or somehow get it for free, you will likely need to spend money to buy the “things” at some point.

Also Lightbringer is very spot on. There are many things that can differentiate similar products. And sometimes the differences are drastic enough to give each item its own use. To a muggle a flashlight is a flashlight, but when we talk about flashlights we also discuss things like flood, throw, UI, tint, CRI, etc. And this can apply to almost any other type of items. People who are more knowledgeable about the item or category of items, probably discuss aspects of a product that are unknown or overlooked by the layman. Also the minute differences in items may make each one worth keeping rather than simply having the one ultimate item.

And just in case you haven’t seen this video:

It can become obsessive at times, but for me, I have sold off much of my collection and am now down to just few lights that I really like. It was fun while it lasted but I really don't like hoarding things and we like to keep our house simple and tidy

Oh, I will be the first to admit I'm the ultimate material guy. I have the makings of a very fine hoarder in me. If I buy one, another always follows. Pretty bad actually. I did and do love to mod but now excellent production lights outstrip anything I could mod. Plus I've been away and... ahem... am "modernizing the fleet." Yup, I'm an addictive personality all right! Doesn't *make* it right.

I finally did find out after a lifetime I have high functioning autism. (Asperger's) We are known for this kind of thing, weird hobbies, hyperfocusing on one thing and not to mention really shitty to nonexistent social skills.

Comments on this? Maybe we've all got it!

lightbringer, are you saying out of the 6 you mentioned, none of the other ones can be used in the place of another? What specific purposes do you have for each?

anon, collecting depends on the means. If you collect bugs its different from collecting funkopops from the store. One you have to do, the other anyone can do. You bring in factor such as CRI and flood and UI, but realistically, why would you want something with a bad CRI or a bad UI? The function of it, like a thrower vs a flooder is different, but how many lights do you need that are that different from the purpose that having another one is indispensable? This is hypothetical there is no right and wrong answer. How many of them can be used in the place of another?

I only asked myself after losing my prized 18350 219b with custom lens and flashed firmware. I was waiting for the FW3A but it never came. In the meantime I used what I had, and found that a AAA can be a very good replacement for the uses I had for it. I have a thrower as well but I don't use it very often and probably don't need it, will probably give it to one of my friends. The AAA cannot be used in its stead, but I do not need to use it anyway. I used a AAA with l,m,h and it did not throw very far, but it clipped on my hat, had a good CRI and color, I carried extra batteries for when it died, and I replaced it with an AA that had pretty much the same function except it was whiter. I have 18650s that are rarely used (got them for free from reviews) and sadly I lost a few of my treasured lights but I did not replace them because I did not need them although I would love another 18650 headlamp or other kind, I don't think I will buy one for a while until I really think mine are insufficient (since I lost the AA light, maybe I will get tired enough of swapping batteries soon).

klrman, have you heard of marie kondo? She was the one that initially inspired me to rethink my purchasing.
dorpmuller, I don't think that modding is the same as simply buying, because you are active in doing something that is harder than pressing buy. If you modify them its different because you are actively engaging in something that others don't do. I also have autism so its easy for me to go into extremes. But at one point when you are messing with your lights, will you think that the material goods don't really make you happy? If they do, continue and be happy. I lost my favorite light and changed because I realized I did not need it. It is nice to have but it becomes a burden at one time. I bought lights such as the UV nichia and even put in the black glass to it, but I gave it away to a friend that works on cars, and some of my 18650s I gave away because they didn't even have one while I had many, and having more than one flashlight is like having more than one cell phone to me. I use one to play music, one to read on and one as my phone, But if I had to only have my regular phone, I would lose out on some benefits but mostly it would be intact, I would still be able to use it to read and listen to music, just not as much as I liked on the other ones.

I think more pass-arounds would cut back on a lot of buying.

One thing I see connecting flashlights and audio is the difficulty of trying at home. So many lights look great on paper… and that’s not getting into the crappy lights with falsely advertised specs.

I think a lot of EDC stuff is hobbyism too. Some other flashlight stuff is technical & toys (like mega throwers).

As a definition, a hobby is an activity or interest pursued for pleasure or relaxation and not as a main occupation.

Now unless the activity or interest pursued is naturally available or free for the taking, I reckon some kind of money is going to change hands. I also imagine that collecting, regardless of what it is, is a hobby as well. Again, money will probably change hands unless your hobby is being a thief. But maybe thievery would be a main occupation which would take it out of the hobby category. I don’t know, never tried it.

A hobby doesn’t have to be something we do as a means to an end. It’s just something someone enjoys doing. Obsessively collecting lights, in my opinion, is just a step taken along the way. I was guilty of it. Buying every light I could. Don’t have many of them left but, it was fun trying out all the different features of decent lights. Maybe I have gotten picky. Now I buy lights that I know I don’t have to do any work on. I have modded many lights to my liking. I don’t go out and buy the latest and greatest unless it’s already how I like it. Needless to say I don’t buy many lights anymore, focusing on using the ones I already have. I think I have bought maybe 4 or 5 lights in the last 3 or 4 months.

I guess I have a choice of buying lights or making my own lights. Making my own would require expensive equipment and a steep learning curve to master. As it is now, each time everyone of us buys a light we keep the circle of money moving. From the company hosting the sellers to web site, to the seller him or herself, electricity, transportation, delivery, etc……all making money and thriving off of someone, somewhere, buying something. If everyone could make everything they ever needed there would be no need for anyone.

Buying things keeps billions employed. Taking care of their families and trying to live a good life. Just think of all the different people that are employed and provide a service so we can all post our opinions on BLF. Look at ham radio. A hobby that keeps entire companies thriving and employing many.

I assume the world of capitalism would continue without people spending money on hobbies. How much fun would that be? Only buying necessities. We only have so long on this planet. We take life as it’s given to us and hopefully leave it a better place. I stick to the little things and let those smarter than me figure out the rest. Still, I will be dead before them or I ever figure it out.

No new flashlights in the pipeline, but many projects to modify them, which is not much different, considering I’ve bought or ordered quite some stuff like LEDs, solder and thermal paste, tools etc. Next step would be driver modification; already programmed AVRs, build constant current circuits etc. :weary:

I guess quitting this hobby means leaving BLF and TLF, as both platforms give too much momentum towards collecting. But then I’m really an addict. It was pocket calculators before. Highly interesting stuff, but it all takes too much time and makes no sense really.

When I’m depressed, I buy something online so that, in a few days, I’ll be happy again.




Not really. But it sure does seem to be how a lot of people behave, across all sorts of different hobbies. It’s kind of a defining trait of capitalist consumerism.

I think it is usually about rewarding yourself with little reasonable priced things, and that involves several things - also it’s safe to say in any sort of ‘excessive’ hobby (that’s most of us on here) there’s a high chance we all have autism or some very mild disorder, to some degree or another (it can literally be barely noticeable in regular life or the polar opposite, in fact we are all autistic, it’s just ‘how’ autistic on a scale you are).
Browsing / buying / researching - we enjoy it usually, this can take a good deal of time…… :person_facepalming:
Waiting for it to drop through the letterbox - we both love it and hate it :smiling_imp: :smiley:
Getting it ‘in hand’ - short-lived joy, maybe a a day, maybe a week - rarely longer (FW3a is an exception) :person_with_crown:
Back to the first step. :cry:

Also it is a fact that poorer people replace the things wealthy take for granted like several holidays a year, new cars,expensive watches, expensive toys - with little things, like flashlights etc on a budget they can afford.
We all reward ourselves, it’s just relative to income.

I don’t think flashlight enthusiasts would purposely want low CRI but sometimes people prefer better tint, more lumens, or they want a thrower which are typically not high CRI. Also UIs can be different without being bad. I love Andruil and wish every flashlight had it but there are still many lights with spaced modes and decent UIs that I would not mind using. Also there flashlights that use magnetic rings/rotaries.

If I stopped buying lights after having one sufficient one then I would have stopped after my first one. And actually I did. I only got into flashlights once I decided to buy a second. I don’t have a large collection of flashlights by any means but it is definitely more than I need. If I were to only buy the bare minimum then I might as well quit this hobby. I got into flashlights because I find them interesting and they have a practical purposes. I do try to be intentional about the lights that I purchase but I’m also not trying to avoid consumerism at all costs either.

+1

Most of my collection has been bought since a car accident 6 years ago, which left me in chronic pain. So I’ve been depressed a lot. Many get used walking dogs and feeding the horses at night. Only my Astrolux MF04 hasn’t been out of the house yet.

I also like tinkering with things and flashlights are relatively simple, bulb, battery and switch. So swapping drivers, LEDs, reflectors or lenses are easy and gives me something to do. It can help take my mind off the pain.

I’d never buy anything because it’s the latest and greatest thing, hence the MF04 and not a GT :wink:

So happy to see you post this thread and open up the discussion, especially on BUDGET light forum.

We are destroying our planet, and mass consumerism, industrialization, fast fashion and mass consumption is a huge part of that equation that leads to horrible diets, malnutrition, deforestation, pollution, and global warming.

My general issue with material goods in the present time is that quality is decreased in order to make a product cheaper and more affordable. This means that low quality products that will simply not last as long and fail, are being sold in much higher quantities. A 15$ shirt from H&M will look like crap after a few washes, meanwhile a $70 Lululemon shirt is perceived as expensive and even overpriced, but outlasts and feels like new after every wash, ultimately reducing the environmental footprint and long term cost of the item.

Personally, I follow 2 rules to help reduce my environmental impact and still feed my material desires.

  1. I avoid buying cheap products where planned obsolescence or lack of quality will put the product into the landfill.
  2. I try to keep the number of lights I own down to a minimum, and to justify a new purchase, I sell a light that I seldom use.

I’d rather own 1 good $100 light, instead of 5 cheap $20 lights.
The ongoing challenge that we see with flashlights, computers, cell phones and tech in general, is that technology is always advancing, so we have this constant need to upgrade our existing material goods to the newer and better product. I try get around this by modifying my flashlights instead of upgrading. Or holding onto my cell phone for atleast 4-5 years before upgrading.

The last point I want to address is the lumen war. Lights are getting brighter and brighter, but these super high turbo’s are not sustainable, and the technology being used in 1000 Lumen lights from 2 years ago is almost identical to those being used in the same 4000 Lumen pocket rockets today. I try not to fall into this marketing push for lumens because I know that a compact EDC light can’t sustain much more than 500 constant lumens anyways. So if the “Turbo” is 1000 lumens, or 9000 Lumens, yeah, its cool for 30 seconds, but doesn’t really add much value if the light overheats almost instantly.

A candle can be used in place of a flooder if you’re desperate enough. And you can dig a ditch with a soup ladle if so pressed, too. Doesn’t mean they’re the best tools for the job, though.

I already mentioned what I generally use them for, and it’s nice being able to have that selection right there vs vainly trying to use a flooder to light up something fairly far away, etc. Going down the basement for something, I could use my ’micro instead of my E03 with diffusion-film, but it’d be nigh useless for lighting up the entire area in front of me unless I cranked it up and used ceiling-bounce instead.

Hmm. Not sure I got an actual question out of that. Maybe just taking a general consensus of how we reflect on our own potentially expensive and time consuming hobbies while taking into account how consumer culture can fan the flame.

I collected comics and cards as a kid, then nothing for many years, and now have modest piles of camping equipment/survival knives/flashlights etc.

Most of these things make me happy. I like to use the stuff, talk to friends about it, and be able to lend or give people good quality stuff.

However, I recognize I would probably be happier and wealthier if I just stopped. Not because the items are too expensive, but my time and space in my apartment is to expensive. Less clutter, more time concentrating on work and relationships. Not that those things are going poorly, but I could do better, and still keep a couple nice items.

So far I just haven’t done it and it’s become a form of procrastination. Maybe will revisit this topic later.

Good luck,

Same here.

Back in the day, lights generally sucked. Unavoidable blinkies in the main cycle, hateful Angry Blue™ emitters, you name it. You’d buy a complete ’501 or ’502 only for use as a host, not as a complete light, because the innards sucked so bad, but everything else was pretty decent (body, pill, reflector, switch).

(But even then, whole lights started getting crappier and crappier, so that no longer applied anymore.)

Now? You got some kick-ass lights right off the rack, with good UIs, good emitters, and so on, and can pick’n’choose what you want. No doubt BLF was a big push in that direction, as well as mfrs like Sofirn and Convoy who listened and raised the bar.

While I know I still can mod a light, it’s quite nice and refreshing to not have to.

I can’t and won’t waste my time on picking up a garbage light to try to “fix it up”.

aka “Retail Therapy”.

Now you got it!! I love Anduril BTW... best thing that ever happened to lights.