Review: XM-L P60 Drop-In from Int'l Outdoor Store

"Foy Finally Discovers Neutral White" .... better late than never, but before you go all out on neutral... buy some high CRI emitters. It's a natural progression CW->NW->HC.

+1 on all that. Foy - thanks for the review!

I never used to think much about tint, until I got to see a few different tints in the T6 and immediately saw how it affected what I perceived about tints. It's interesting if you can get several tints and look at them for yourself, not on a white wall, but outside in the real world. I like some of the NW, but I'm ending up being on the border, where the white is really white without blue bleeding into it. Oddly enough, inside the house I prefer a NW bordering on warm. The incandescent look.

"The Best Illumination" for anyone, is with your own eyes. It's the only way to figure it out. You can look at photos all day, but you have to try them out on your own, to know what you like. It's a very individual thing.

Thanks, Foy. A great (and very useful) review.

thanks for the review Foy! I also got my neutral and I agree with your statements..also would like to add a pro to these drop-ins..lack of PWM or too high of a frequency to detect..this thing is worth 23$ and i'm really starting to dig the neutral..

Thanks for the review Foy!

I like it but I'll stick with the cheaper 3 mode manafont drop-in's in which I have 3 that haven't let me down yet. Maybe if the price drops a bit I'll have to give them a try since I just ordered 2 more ultrafire wf-501a's.

Another one here too, very pleased so far. Little blemish on the emmiter also but not crack like, more chip.

LOL, nice to see some other folks jumping onto the NW ship.

I sort of look at Cool White as going hand-in-hand with SOS and strobe modes. The brightness (glare) and blinky modes impress non-flashaholics, but the folks in the know prefer a more realistic tint and no blinkies. Just my opinion, but I think it is part of the flashaholics journey from the "wow, is that ever bright" stage to the "I really like the way that beam looks, and its tint" stage.

lang - I briefly tried to remove the brass cover for a peek inside. I guess that's why I bought three; so I could accidently de-dome one but I like these so much . . . I also want a look inside so, I will be taking off one of the covers, soon.

I knew comparison questions to sku 5720 were inevitable but the truth is; they are two entirely different products. One is not "better," in my opinion. My affection for the UF XM-L from Manafont is well documented and I still think it should be one of the first P60 modules a newbie gets. This drop-in from IO has a different purpose and is perhaps aimed at a different user.

If you're like me (perish the thought) and have a bevy of CW modules, all purchased with lumens/amps expectations, this is a not-so-expensive way to broaden your understanding a bit. Tint differences can be subtle and I'm starting to believe it's a progression for some people that can only be fully appreciated after wading through an ocean of cool white brightness/sameness.

I poo-pooed it for a long time but I was wrong. Tint matters. Everything we see is the result of light reflecting from the object we are looking at. The color, tone, contrast, tint and yes, even the brighteness determines how we perceive what we are seeing. Like all light, any beam from a flashlight changes the color of what we are seeing. We use a fancy word like "render" but it's perfect. I have a WW that renders everything bright gold. I hate it. Nearly all my Manafont XM-Ls wash everything brilliantly white. Under a dark car where I absolutely need serious lumens and nothing else, I love it. But around the house or, walking the dog for example, I want a green bush to stay green. With these drop-ins, in pitch-black dark my yellow cat "Ted" looks about like he does during the day. That's a pretty neat trick and I like it. I like it a lot.

Foy

Ive been on the NW drugs since I joined this forum, and have been trying to get others on the neutral bandwagon, or to at least try it out.

Most common observation is the concept of tint is commonly discussed by many people, and the question of wanting a "neutral" white is commonly agreed upon, however its the definition of what constitutes "neutral" that varies between those who Have seen a warmer colour temp tint, and those who have not.

Those who have only seen CW tints, will be referring to the more greenish, or the slightly pinkish tints, and will find some of their torches more "neutral" than others, but once you have seen a true 4-5000kelvin tinted emitter, the concept of neutral is completely blown away and mostly then begins to refer to the colour temp as well as green/pink shifting. What was once your "neutral" cool white tint, becomes a ghastly blue colour and something that isn't as nice as it used to be.

This was my personal experience, but It was during the times when XP-E and XP-Gs were new to the block, and in those days, cool whites were Really cool. At least todays XM-Ls CWs are not as crazy blue.

So what am I saying? Everyone NEEEDs to give a Neutral white a go. That means tints from the 3-4-5 bins from cree. (or the 4-5000 kelvin colour temp)

My NW 2.8 has just failed :( well it still works but it is now single mode only. Anybody else had this?

Edit, it works again, how strange, tried disassembly and retighten, new cells etc etc, left it a day or so then it just returned to normal.

I gave up on the total lumens rat-race a while back, and now concentrate more on a great beam, which gives me more natural colours.

And it is hard for LED's as LED's intrinsically have a narrow emission region. LED manufacturers spend a lot of time and money to try to duplicate the wider distribution of a well-driven incandescent bulb. When spending time outdoors at night, a well regulated bulb still reins supreme for my eyes (a SF M6 with my own PhD-M6 regulated pack driving an MN61 is perfect), but the Neutral White LED's are improving, every day getting better.

I recently got the Nichia 4500, 92 CRI LED's, and they are the best I have seen so far - really good for being an LED, and I converted my Sunwayman V10R Ti+ to the Nichia 219 as soon as I could

Will

Thanks for the review. Been thinking of a neutral drop-in and decided on a whim to give these a try. Will admit that they seem a little pricey for what you're getting. But, I pulled the trigger and now have to wait the 2-3 weeks for it to arrive. We'll see how it turns out.

Is there any PWM on low or medium with this dropin? The Manafont Ultrafire has super annoying PWM on low and medium, been looking for a replacement for a while.

There is small PWM on medium, very fine and fast when I shine it directly at the camera and almost nothing on low . . . which tells me there is no PWM to the eye.

Foy

Thanks for the info! Also, does it always come in on high, or is there mode memory?

It has mode memory.

Foy

What a shame, I really don't want PWM at all, just a decent current controlled circuit. Also the Low and Med output levels are too high. I'd like to see a P60 dropin with 1/10/100% levels in neutral white tint as that would be more suitable for outdoors use.

And the search continues...

If I understand it correctly, 1% current controlled requires a very complex driver. AMC based drivers can be current controlled in 350mA steps tho.. but I'm not really sure about that. Havent heard of a lot of current control drivers.

True linear current control (NON-PWM) would be quite stupid with an LED. The efficiency of anything in the middle range would be absolutely horrible, and the linear driver would have to dissipate a tremendous amount of heat. PWM is an absolute necessary evil with an LED. PWM, however, can be done at very high frequencies (1khz+) and then it will be completely invisible to the human eye.

PPtk

what about zebralight, sunwayman and the likes that use current controlled drivers? just asking cus my sc600 and h600 run a long time on medium and low..

ps. I agree with you on PWM at high hz..it's almost non existent..