【convoy】219B R9080 TEST

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Lightbringer
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Tom E wrote:
It’s kind of despicable what’s going on here – open source firmware running on proprietary hardware, where secrecy seems to be the goal. Do they really think they have something so special and unique, they want to copy protect the design but use someones else’s firmware they don’t have to pay for? Of course we know there’s lots of stolen ideas/designs there – it’s the wild wild west, but a simple flashlight driver? I dunno…

Yeah, I worked for a place that made POS equipment (no, actually POS, as in point-of-sale), and to the outside observer, the place was the definition of hypocrisy.

The owners loved to flaunt their “status” and “wealth”, but treated all their underlings as coolie labor. Might be shocking to us who call the boss “Bob” or “Pete” or “Jane”, but there, that behavior/attitude is the norm. “Know your place.”

What got me, though, is that I was tasked with repurposing one of their controller boards to do something specific as a one-off project, on a rather strict deadline as the owner was going back overseas for a while and wanted to take the prototype with him.

Okay, no prob. It’s a highly integrated 8×51 variant, lots of peripherals on-board, let me have a look at some existing code so I wouldn’t have to “reinvent the wheel” (setting up all memory-maps, port addresses, interrupts, etc.). Ohhhh, no. Ohhhhh, Hell no. Those are secret, and you don’t have “clearance” to look at that! All this from a piss-ant company of a coupla dozen people total.

Umm, okay, so how do you expect me to write firmware to do what you want, in such a short timeframe? Well, you have books and manuals, you can look it up, no? Again, back to the reinventing-the-wheel part. Hell, I wasn’t even given a schematic to see what lines from the µC were connected to the outside world; I was expected to visually trace the board to find out what went where. They wanted me to (selectively) reverse-engineer one of their boards, so they wouldn’t have to show me so much as a line of source-code or even top-level schematic of the donk.

I said screw that, I’ll write it in C and send signals to the printer-port. Pick ‘em off the ribbon-cable…

The fun part, though? They did their own bit of REing competitors’ boards, trashed hard-disks deliberately (destructive testing by giving ‘em heat-stroke) then returned them under warranty, pir8ed M$ licenses to install Windows on embedded systems (buy 100, install 1000), etc.

Oh, and then after I “unthinkingly” trashed dead HDs instead of returning them to stock (to be returned to the mfr under warranty), they tried to stick me personally for the cost of the drives! I had enough at that point, and even tried ratting ‘em out to M$, but they’d have none of it, and expected me to pretty much prepare their case for them, else they weren’t interested. Facepalm

Anyway, in earlier conversations with the chief engineer or lead engineer or whatever he was, he unabashedly said it’s SOP. Pir8 stuff from all over, keep your stuff secret (or try to), no such thing as “ethics”. Just the way of doing business. In fact, it’s not even seen as doing anything wrong, but is expected. As in, he wasn’t trying to defend their actions in any way (as he saw nothing wrong with them, thus nothing to defend), and was surprised that I had an issue with it.

It’s a cultural thing, I guess. Again, just the standard way of doing business. Takes a while to wrap your head around it. Kinda like watching the dog licking himself right in front of you when you’re watching teevee. You call out “Hey, stop that!”, and the dog gives you this “What’s your problem?” look.

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Ok, that's pretty bad. Mostly the small guys I've worked for were basically honest, innovative, trying their best to bring something new to the market. But I've heard other stories around, too.

Knew a fairly big local distributor of computers/parts/etc. that used to go "shopping" thru his warehouse for stuff he'd sell on the side, then write it off as employee theft, and meanwhile having cameras and security everywhere to be sure nothing disappears.

Lightbringer - didn't realize you were in the biz. Been doing this stuff wayyy too long, since 78, and bought the original IBM PC for like $3500 just to play with. Ended up being a good investment though.

 

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Sirstinky wrote:
Tom E wrote:

Usually it’s easy to trace where VCC and Ground get connected to the MCU, and that, along with the package and pins, can narrow down the choices of MCU’s. PIC’s are usually one config for VCC/Grnd, different from Atmel’s.


It’s kind of despicable what’s going on here – open source firmware running on proprietary hardware, where secrecy seems to be the goal. Do they really think they have something so special and unique, they want to copy protect the design but use someones else’s firmware they don’t have to pay for? Of course we know there’s lots of stolen ideas/designs there – it’s the wild wild west, but a simple flashlight driver? I dunno…


 

As I understand it, the Chinese electronics market is incredibly competitive, with so many firms making parts for each other and then selling them at a premium to one or discounting the others. Some manufacturers sell to only certain companies with the promise their identity is kept secret, otherwise other competitors might get wise and copy the design or undercut them on pricing. If you’ve ever opened up products from different manufacturers, you get an idea of this. An LG vs Memorex versus a Coby portable DVD player,for example. The LG will have better quality control, probably some better design (more SMD vs through hole) with better parts. The other brands might have cheaper plastics, more theough hole with bodging and solder flux, etc. However, the same company might supply ICs or parts to all the big OEMs. In China everything is counterfeited or copied (even flashlights folks).

Thanks for your explanation, there is indeed such an objective fact in China.

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ToyKeeper wrote:
To clear up any confusion…

I have not given Convoy any special licenses. If this product ships without providing full source code, it will probably be a license violation, and Convoy would lose the right to sell anything based on my code.

Full details are in the license (translated: zh-cn, zh-tw).

It is not difficult to satisfy, and usually costs nothing. It is a “share and share alike” style license, meaning that anyone who distributes a compiled version (including derivatives) must also provide the complete source code for that same version, under the same license, retaining all the original copyright marks.

Usually people satisfy the license by doing the following:

  1. Publish a message somewhere prominent stating that the product uses copyrighted code released under the GNU Public License v3 (GPLv3).
  2. Include information about how to get the exact source code used in the product. If it is an unmodified version, a link to the upstream code works. Or if it’s modified, they must find a way to publish the version they used.

That info generally goes on the product page and/or in the included paper manual. Ideally both:

  • The license applies to anyone who distributes the code in a compiled form, which includes companies who sell products based on the code. In other words, it applies to every vendor and reseller. So it’s a good idea to put the information in a printed manual which ships with the product, because that means the vendor doesn’t have to know or care about the license.
  • Even if the license info is in the manual, it is also a good idea to include the license info on the original manufacturer’s product page too. This allows people to verify the license is being fulfilled, which means I don’t have to bother the manufacturers with messages like this one.

The concept of “trade secret” is completely incompatible with the concept of free software. The whole point is that nothing is secret — anyone can use it however they want, as long as they make sure the same freedom is passed on to others.

I will continue to communicate with the driver manufacturer

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ToyKeeper wrote:
To clear up any confusion…

I have not given Convoy any special licenses. If this product ships without providing full source code, it will probably be a license violation, and Convoy would lose the right to sell anything based on my code.

Full details are in the license (translated: zh-cn, zh-tw).

It is not difficult to satisfy, and usually costs nothing. It is a “share and share alike” style license, meaning that anyone who distributes a compiled version (including derivatives) must also provide the complete source code for that same version, under the same license, retaining all the original copyright marks.

Usually people satisfy the license by doing the following:

  1. Publish a message somewhere prominent stating that the product uses copyrighted code released under the GNU Public License v3 (GPLv3).
  2. Include information about how to get the exact source code used in the product. If it is an unmodified version, a link to the upstream code works. Or if it’s modified, they must find a way to publish the version they used.

That info generally goes on the product page and/or in the included paper manual. Ideally both:

  • The license applies to anyone who distributes the code in a compiled form, which includes companies who sell products based on the code. In other words, it applies to every vendor and reseller. So it’s a good idea to put the information in a printed manual which ships with the product, because that means the vendor doesn’t have to know or care about the license.
  • Even if the license info is in the manual, it is also a good idea to include the license info on the original manufacturer’s product page too. This allows people to verify the license is being fulfilled, which means I don’t have to bother the manufacturers with messages like this one.

The concept of “trade secret” is completely incompatible with the concept of free software. The whole point is that nothing is secret — anyone can use it however they want, as long as they make sure the same freedom is passed on to others.

I got a reply.
Although the same function has been achieved, driver manufacturer does not use the existing open source code because of the different circuit principle. This circuit currently uses code written by the driver manufacturer itself.

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icpart wrote:
Ok I will made some close up pictures with my Andonstar micro and will post them soon. But I think marks on micro and transistors was laser trimmed. Also from Convoy store listing we can see markings of transistors but the MCU is it without it. Also it have 10 pins compared to 8 pins of Attiny so the Biscotti firmware is most likely ported to another MCU family. !{width:70%}https://i.ibb.co/K5XG8w7/PHO00001.jpg!

The component in this picture is MOS FET AON7524, I will announce the MCU model later.

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Simon Mao wrote:
Although the same function has been achieved, driver manufacturer does not use the existing open source code because of the different circuit principle. This circuit currently uses code written by the driver manufacturer itself.

I earlier asked if it’s the same “Biscotti” driver (as used in the Convoy C8+ with Biscotti firmware).

Based on this explanation, the SST40 “Biscotti” is not the same “Biscotti” but “something similar function”.

I’m curious then, would it also have the same 12- mode groups, enable/disable mode memory? Or maybe just “something similar” in concept?

Would be good if someone has already gotten the “SST40-Biscotti” driver and put it to the test.

(As of the moment, our country is in lockdown, so most overseas sellers have stopped shipping to our country for a full month now and may still not be able to do so in another 2 weeks…) [eg. Banggood says “No shipping method available” for ALL products now, whereas before, only “pure battery products” have “No shipping method available”]

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So it’s a Biscotti clone, but not Biscotti. And given that information is being withheld, I can’t modify it and flash my own version like I’ve been able to with Biscotti (custom modes etc).

Thanks, no thanks.

(I’d strongly suggest using another name – even “Biscuit (Biscotti-clone)” or similar. Because it’s not the same firmware.)

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oweban wrote:
So it’s a Biscotti clone, but not Biscotti. And given that information is being withheld, I can’t modify it and flash my own version like I’ve been able to with Biscotti (custom modes etc).

Thanks, no thanks.

(I’d strongly suggest using another name – even “Biscuit (Biscotti-clone)” or similar. Because it’s not the same firmware.)


I agree. Knowing whether we can use our own customized variants is a big deal and re-using the name may mislead people to think that it’s possible.
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d_t_a wrote:
Simon Mao wrote:
Although the same function has been achieved, driver manufacturer does not use the existing open source code because of the different circuit principle. This circuit currently uses code written by the driver manufacturer itself.

I earlier asked if it’s the same “Biscotti” driver (as used in the Convoy C8+ with Biscotti firmware).

Based on this explanation, the SST40 “Biscotti” is not the same “Biscotti” but “something similar function”.

I’m curious then, would it also have the same 12- mode groups, enable/disable mode memory? Or maybe just “something similar” in concept?

Would be good if someone has already gotten the “SST40-Biscotti” driver and put it to the test.

(As of the moment, our country is in lockdown, so most overseas sellers have stopped shipping to our country for a full month now and may still not be able to do so in another 2 weeks…) [eg. Banggood says “No shipping method available” for ALL products now, whereas before, only “pure battery products” have “No shipping method available”]

i have no difficulty with delivery to Philippines.
Even mailing a mask is no problem.
the function is the same instead of “similar” Smile

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oweban wrote:
So it’s a Biscotti clone, but not Biscotti. And given that information is being withheld, I can’t modify it and flash my own version like I’ve been able to with Biscotti (custom modes etc).

Thanks, no thanks.

(I’d strongly suggest using another name – even “Biscuit (Biscotti-clone)” or similar. Because it’s not the same firmware.)

This was my mistake. At first, I thought that the driver manufacturer used the biscotti code. Later, I realized that it was the code he wrote himself.
I havent given a name to this, so simply call it 12 groups sst40 driver

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No probs Simon – we can all get blindsided.

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Simon Mao wrote:
d_t_a wrote:

Based on this explanation, the SST40 "Biscotti" is not the same "Biscotti" but "something similar function".

Would be good if someone has already gotten the "SST40-Biscotti" driver and put it to the test.


the function is the same instead of "similar" Smile

Smells like surströmming, sorry to say.

So who is going to dump the MCU's code? 

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I did notice a difference with mine but wasn’t sure if it was just a quirk with my build (used it in a photo red triple). When set to the five mode group, there seems to be a large jump between modes 2 & 3. My other Biscotti drivers have very linear mode spacing. Not really a complaint, just an observation.

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I have a quirk in a 20mm “SST40” driver that I recently bought from your AE store. Between modes 1 and 2 there is a bright “pre-flash”. Is this normal? Anybody else experiencing this? It’s installed in an S21a running a triple XPL_HD from an LG M50.

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Simon, what’s the order code (or at least CRI bin, the 16th digit which can be B, H, or U) for the XHP35 HI 4000K B4-40E?

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zak.wilson wrote:
Simon, what's the order code (or at least CRI bin, the 16th digit which can be B, H, or U) for the XHP35 HI 4000K B4-40E?

I asked this to Simon nearly two weeks ago via message in AliExpress. I told him that, according to datasheet, a B4-40E should be U CRI code or CRI90+, whereas the D2-1A (6500K) should be H CRI code or CRI80+. Simon replied “uh, sorry, the LED I sell is not high CRI LED”. Confusing, I know. 

The human mind, and its programming, is at the forefront of a particular battle of The Light vs evil dark forces. Nearly every human being on this beautiful planet “Earth” has some sort of negative mind programming in its mind. And you better take care of your mind programming, or someone else will in this wicked world.

Please avoid fully quoting lenghty posts, namely with nested quotes. Trim quotes down to the essential. Helps with neatness and legibility. Thanks.

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Rayoui wrote:
I did notice a difference with mine but wasn’t sure if it was just a quirk with my build (used it in a photo red triple). When set to the five mode group, there seems to be a large jump between modes 2 & 3. My other Biscotti drivers have very linear mode spacing. Not really a complaint, just an observation.
JaredM wrote:
I have a quirk in a 20mm “SST40” driver that I recently bought from your AE store. Between modes 1 and 2 there is a bright “pre-flash”. Is this normal? Anybody else experiencing this? It’s installed in an S21a running a triple XPL_HD from an LG M50.

This may be caused by a high internal resistance somewhere, or it may be a driver problem.

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Simon Mao wrote:
oweban wrote:
So it’s a Biscotti clone, but not Biscotti. And given that information is being withheld, I can’t modify it and flash my own version like I’ve been able to with Biscotti (custom modes etc).

Thanks, no thanks.

(I’d strongly suggest using another name – even “Biscuit (Biscotti-clone)” or similar. Because it’s not the same firmware.)

This was my mistake. At first, I thought that the driver manufacturer used the biscotti code. Later, I realized that it was the code he wrote himself.
I havent given a name to this, so simply call it 12 groups sst40 driver

So, to amend the mistake, the post title should be changed… or not?

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Tldr;

So, is it possible to buy s21a with biscotti?

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Simon Mao wrote:
oweban wrote:
So it's a Biscotti clone, but not Biscotti. And given that information is being withheld, I can't modify it and flash my own version like I've been able to with Biscotti (custom modes etc). Thanks, no thanks. (I'd strongly suggest using another name - even "Biscuit (Biscotti-clone)" or similar. Because it's not the same firmware.)
This was my mistake. At first, I thought that the driver manufacturer used the biscotti code. Later, I realized that it was the code he wrote himself. I havent given a name to this, so simply call it 12 groups sst40 driver

Simon - no harm intended. No worries. We are all glad you are involved so much with us and listen. We just like to get the specifics.

That's all true - your listings never said Biscotti.

Again, you with the Convoy brand have been a long time major part of BLF - "quality at budget prices", could be your motto and BLF's.

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Tom E wrote:

Simon Mao wrote:
oweban wrote:
So it’s a Biscotti clone, but not Biscotti. And given that information is being withheld, I can’t modify it and flash my own version like I’ve been able to with Biscotti (custom modes etc). Thanks, no thanks. (I’d strongly suggest using another name – even “Biscuit (Biscotti-clone)” or similar. Because it’s not the same firmware.)
This was my mistake. At first, I thought that the driver manufacturer used the biscotti code. Later, I realized that it was the code he wrote himself. I havent given a name to this, so simply call it 12 groups sst40 driver

Simon – no harm intended. No worries. We are all glad you are involved so much with us and listen. We just like to get the specifics.


That’s all true – your listings never said Biscotti.


Again, you with the Convoy brand have been a long time major part of BLF“quality at budget prices”, could be your motto and BLF’s.


I second that.
Myself I’m not a fan of Convoy lights because they tend to be too bulky for my preferences – but nevertheless there is no brand I respect more than Convoy.
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Are the groups the same as biscotti? Noticeable PWM?

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hodor, SST-40 drivers are regulated linears. Current is regulated by tuning the MOSFETs' VGS with the onboard sense resistor voltage drop feedback. PWM is thus senseless.

The human mind, and its programming, is at the forefront of a particular battle of The Light vs evil dark forces. Nearly every human being on this beautiful planet “Earth” has some sort of negative mind programming in its mind. And you better take care of your mind programming, or someone else will in this wicked world.

Please avoid fully quoting lenghty posts, namely with nested quotes. Trim quotes down to the essential. Helps with neatness and legibility. Thanks.

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Oh right, wasn’t thinking, thanks.

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abgx1 wrote:
Tldr;

So, is it possible to buy s21a with biscotti?

yes, the driver is in production

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antiparanoico wrote:
Simon Mao wrote:
oweban wrote:
So it’s a Biscotti clone, but not Biscotti. And given that information is being withheld, I can’t modify it and flash my own version like I’ve been able to with Biscotti (custom modes etc).

Thanks, no thanks.

(I’d strongly suggest using another name – even “Biscuit (Biscotti-clone)” or similar. Because it’s not the same firmware.)

This was my mistake. At first, I thought that the driver manufacturer used the biscotti code. Later, I realized that it was the code he wrote himself.
I havent given a name to this, so simply call it 12 groups sst40 driver

So, to amend the mistake, the post title should be changed… or not?

ok

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Tom E wrote:

Simon Mao wrote:
oweban wrote:
So it’s a Biscotti clone, but not Biscotti. And given that information is being withheld, I can’t modify it and flash my own version like I’ve been able to with Biscotti (custom modes etc). Thanks, no thanks. (I’d strongly suggest using another name – even “Biscuit (Biscotti-clone)” or similar. Because it’s not the same firmware.)
This was my mistake. At first, I thought that the driver manufacturer used the biscotti code. Later, I realized that it was the code he wrote himself. I havent given a name to this, so simply call it 12 groups sst40 driver

Simon – no harm intended. No worries. We are all glad you are involved so much with us and listen. We just like to get the specifics.


That’s all true – your listings never said Biscotti.


Again, you with the Convoy brand have been a long time major part of BLF“quality at budget prices”, could be your motto and BLF’s.

Thanks

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